Investigating manager old friends with boss

[jodyperry]

I wonder if anyone can give me some advice over my husbands employment issue. He has just raised a grievance regarding his boss, and his constant threats and bully boy tactics. He has had an interview and then recieves news that his complaint was not upheld. The investigation wasn't handled well at all. No witness were spoken to so it is just one word against another. Details were missed from the Minutes so basically his complaint read as if he was just winging about work. This isn't the case, sometimes He can't keep up due to his disability and has issues with doing overtime our son is severly disabled and He need to be home when he's home from school simple as that ( you'd think). I am writing an appeal out at the moment but have since found out that the boss and 'investigator' used to work together and were heard laughing and joking in his interview! (A little different to hubbys where He had to leave the room and get his head together when explaining that our son thinks it's his fault Hes in trouble)!! After having no contact from the boss ( been off sick for 2/3 months now), he has contacted me all of a sudden and looks to be handling things maybe as he should of done all along. ( this won't last). My question after all that is this, We can appeal the decision but what concerns me is it's fairly obvious this investigator has warned his boss to tread carefully so it don't really matter who does the investigation, he has been prepped by this bloke and will do things right for as long as he has to then start again when everything goes his way. Surely this isn't a fair process?

[SabreSheep]

Right ok

 

First off, get a copy of all the minutes taken. Make the request in wiritng, get them to agree to send them within 14 days.

 

As part of the appeal you want to make sure you express why you feel the investigation was not conducted fairly.

 

Mention that you do not feel witnesses were asked and therefore procedure was not followed

 

You should have access to the grievance procedure that will tell you how to proceed. Normally there are time limits but the sickness may help there.

 

This looks like a complex case that we do not have all the information to.

 

EG Length of service with the employer

Nature of the bullying.

What Proof could be provided

When grievance was lodged?

When was the hearing?

When was the Outcome notified?

Were any reasons given for the outcome?

Your Sickness - Is it related

The Minutes - Did your OH Read and sign them?

WHAT WAS THE DATE OF THE LAST INCIDENT BEING COMPLAINED ABOUT. **IMPORTANT** A tribunal application must be received by the tribunal 3 months LESS one DAY from the last incident being complained about.

 

You may need to move fast to lodge a Et1 and pay the fee to protect his rights to go to a tribunal. (As it looks like a single equality act complaint length of service is not applicable) You will need some expert help with this. CAB? Union? You can lodge a complaint then ask it to be put on hold while internal procedures are carried out.

 

This is the difficult bit, you need to somehow be able to step outside the situation and stick to the facts and then say at the end how it has impacted on your husband. The reason they are prob changing tack is that your OH is off sick long term following what may have turned out to be a Serious Disability Discrimination case at tribunal.

 

Also some words of advice for your husband when it comes to meetings. It seems some may have been learned after the first one.

 

1) Always take a union rep (JOIN ONE if your not in a union) If you have not union rep then he has the right to have a witness.

2) Never Lie

3) Be honest with your rep and make sure they understand your situation aims and goals etc.

4) Minutes - READ THEM CAREFULLY - Ask for inaccuracies to be corrected. Ask for omissions (Important ones) to be included.

If you are not happy to sign the minutes due to inaccuracy write " Signed under duress -- Minutes not accurate" Sign under the last sentence so nothing can be added. OR cross out the empty space at the end of the page.

5) Make sure in the meeting you get it noted down you want a copy and arrange when you are to receive it.

6) If your OH needs time to answer a question he can request an adjournment to talk to his witness or rep. if the adjournment is refused make sure it gets noted down.

 

Emazzi is pretty hot on employment stuff and more upto date than me so id await her input. Also once you answer allt he questions above u could flag your post. Im worried abotu time limits here.

[jodyperry]

Thank you so much for all that advice, I shall get to work x

[SabreSheep]

Edit, you want those minutes within 7 days or the next meeting whatever happens sooner

[jodyperry]

Can I request the minutes from their interview?

[jodyperry]

Hi bit of an update. We have now sent the appeal in, and have another worry. My husband was suspended for 'all edged gross misconduct'for 48 hours when he went off with stress (. Can't remember if I put in post). Last week he went for a getting back to work meeting and was told by another manager that he was no longer suspended. It was informal without minutes but as suggested he did take his own notes. They also mention a holiday we had saying that his holiday will be deducted since he is off sick. The following day they received the appeal. 2 days after He gets a letter to say that he IS still suspended! This seems fishy and I mention the holiday as I'm hoping it's been deducted already. Surely this would prove the conversation in the meeting that I'm currently off sick not off because of suspension. He was also at the meeting offered an alternative job, which just supports what I thought which is they were. Just trying to get rid of him but now they have been warned by this investigator they know they have to offer him something else.

[Emmzzi]

Is the other job more suitable given his condition? Keep your eye on the big picture....

[jodyperry]

Yes and no. Should this all be sorted out it's something he needs to seriously consider, although I have a feeling it's just been offered hoping he will refuse, but showing they have offered an alternative.

[Emmzzi]

So it might make sense for him to write down his understanding of the return to work meeting he had, and ask for clarification that he has understood it correctly; and ask if the continued suspension letter is an admin error.

 

And if the new job will make it easier for him to attend and I think you phrased it as "keep up", he should have a further discussion about it.

[jodyperry]

thanks ill try that x

[jodyperry]

Well that was quick he got a letter today re the appeal and has been called in Wednesday but doubt he will get a decent union there by then

[jodyperry]

Does anyone know what happens if the appeal manager finds that the investigation was not done properly but then he still decides not to uphold the complaint?

[Emmzzi]

the complaint isnt upheld and whoever did the first investigtion is usually retrained.

[jodyperry]

Well he got the minutes. It was no surprise that these were rubbish too. I was surprised that whereas the first minutes mostly missed things out these ones actually were actually added to and complete fiction in some parts. What also confused me is the union rep (who signed my amended minutes at the first investigation which I asked to be put on the record) was called into the office the following day and reprimanded the following day for his shouting and aggressiveness during the interview. My husband was stunned , I think my husband would of prefered it if he actually was!

[Emmzzi]

What advice has the rep given you?

[jodyperry]

None, been trying to get hold of the area rep but keep getting fobbed off, yet he says it's been 'passed up the chain'. The union really havnt been any help at all. I've been telling him what limited info I know but the only benefit of the union has been that they can be witness to the meetings

[Emmzzi]

Well, if the rep is accused of shouting, knows he didn't, and hubbie bears witness to that, I think the reliability of the person chairing the meeting should be called into account.

[jodyperry]

Would he do that in writing to them or is it something that he would need to say at a tribunal? I think it might be time to admit defeat tbh. I'm not sure how much more hubby can deal with. He's just constantly battling. His illness is progressing a a speedier rate than expected and I'm sure it's connected . The doctor has told both of us that stress and tension certainly won't be helping his condition and quite honestly I'd rather have a jobless husband than none the union have let him down big time and I'm trying to learn all I can but I think my brain is fried x thanks for all your advice xx

[Emmzzi]

I don't think anyone can make that decision except your husband. I tend to agree with you, but I know other posters here wouldn't.

 

I would talk to the union again; and I would contest the minutes; and see where it gets you. These are simple things to do. An ET is a lot more stressful and needs more thought.

 

No win no fee lawyer re: the illness, maybe?

[jodyperry]

I'll def phone solicitor before anything and am told one of the union benefits is legal advice ( wish. The rep had told us this) and yes agreed it has to be his decision I just don't for a second want him to carry on thinking he's let us down in any way. There's no formal way to contest as its in house proceedure but presume the 3 days to ammend minutes is this? Sorry if that sounds thick . The 'notes' he received from the meeting don't actually mention the shouting by the rep but the boss had said when repremanding him that they got the notes from the meeting and he was aggressive, so this must be a different set of notes.

[Emmzzi]

If the union may provide a solicitor, don't get your own - the union then won't fund one for you. So first call is the union to see

[jodyperry]

Thank you I really do appreciate your advice x

[Emmzzi]

no problem - it's a horrible stressful time complicated by health worries. And the choices are between bad things, and worse things. Ask and talk as much as is helpful.

[jodyperry]

It's been a while but my husband has finally been charged ( even after offering him a deal saying they would drop everything if he returned to work, which now he feels well enough to has been taken off). I would really appreciate some advice regarding their evidence. Hes been charged with gross misconduct and should of attended a meeting today. I've did not receive the evid nice that was stated was included in his meeting letter so requested it and it has been rearranged for Monday. There is one email that they have given him. The incident happened over 6 months ago but The email is very though and worded in a way that would 'cover their back' in the event ova tribunal. It is written as if written on the day of the incident which I don't believe it was. Every other email I have copies of are dated and this seems to be the only one which isn't . Is there any way I can request the evidence to be supplied with a date, which presumably they have if in fact it was sent 6 months ago?

[jodyperry]

Any help plzzz