TKMaxx - Swapped Prices - What will happen please?

[Wndr]

Hi there

 

A friend of mine put some clearance stickers over two full prices pairs I jeans and attempted to pay for them. The clerk noticed and peeled off the red stickers and asked her colleague to check whether the original price had been discounted. My friend played dumb and was never asked nor accused of swapping by the clerk and she then went on to purchase one pair of the jeans (at full price) as well as some other items she intended to buy (also at full price) and then walked out of the store with no one following to apprehend her.

 

My friend saw the clerk write something down on a notepad with various headings. She thinks it was details of the items but can't be sure. The book had other entries, assuming many others have tried the same.

 

My question is.. As they didn't apprehend her then, but did know that the prices were changed, can they review CCTV footage and have her arrested by the police? It wouldn't be that hard for them to find surely as the clerk may have made a note of the time when it happened...?

 

My friend is sick with worry that the police are going to knock on her door or put her picture in the local paper for identification.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[old bill]

Hi there

 

A friend of mine put some clearance stickers over two full prices pairs I jeans and attempted to pay for them. The clerk noticed and peeled off the red stickers and asked her colleague to check whether the original price had been discounted. My friend played dumb and was never asked nor accused of swapping by the clerk and she then went on to purchase one pair of the jeans (at full price) as well as some other items she intended to buy (also at full price) and then walked out of the store with no one following to apprehend her.

 

My friend saw the clerk write something down on a notepad with various headings. She thinks it was details of the items but can't be sure. The book had other entries, assuming many others have tried the same.

 

My question is.. As they didn't apprehend her then, but did know that the prices were changed, can they review CCTV footage and have her arrested by the police? It wouldn't be that hard for them to find surely as the clerk may have made a note of the time when it happened...?

 

My friend is sick with worry that the police are going to knock on her door or put her picture in the local paper for identification.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

In which retail outlet did this incident occur?

[Wndr]

Tk Maxx, I'm sorry, I thought I stated that.

[old bill]

The TK Maxx Loss Prevention Manager who started this thread advised that TK Maxx wait for alleged shoplifters to commit two offences before doing anything about it. Being a former policeman, I have serious doubts as to the lawfulness of such a practice. Certainly, a legal professional would challenge it if a case ever went to court.

 

Unless they physically witnessed your friend change the labels with their own eyes - CCTV footage alone is not enough - it would be difficult for them to justify contacting the police. If your friend did not succeed in obtaining a pecuniary advantage - a discount - without actually seeing them change the labels, it is difficult for TK Maxx to do anything.

 

As for T K Maxx putting people's photos in local newspapers, unless they have irrefutable evidence of any criminal offence, they would be very unwise to do so. A convenience store, near to where I live, put up photos of people they "believed" had stolen from their shop in the window, facing outwards. When someone they accused threatened them with legal action, they made the mistake of claiming the police told them to do it. The person then checked with the police who paid the retailer a visit and ordered them to take the photos out of the window.

[Peterbard]

The TK Maxx Loss Prevention Manager who started this thread advised that TK Maxx wait for alleged shoplifters to commit two offences before doing anything about it. Being a former policeman, I have serious doubts as to the lawfulness of such a practice. Certainly, a legal professional would challenge it if a case ever went to court.

 

 

I read this with interest.

 

I notice from your profile that as well as your police background you also have psychic abilities, is this what you refer to here ?

You actually slap the cuffs on before they commit the offence, a quantum leap in law enforcement no doubt.

[old bill]

I read this with interest.

 

I notice from your profile that as well as your police background you also have psychic abilities, is this what you refer to here ?

You actually slap the cuffs on before they commit the offence, a quantum leap in law enforcement no doubt.

 

You don't happen to post on another advice website, albeit under another username, by any chance? Your style of posting seems very familiar.

[Peterbard]

You don't happen to post on another advice website, albeit under another username, by any chance? Your style of posting seems very familiar.

 

Psychic ability playing up a bit there, possibly

[Wndr]

The TK Maxx Loss Prevention Manager who started this thread advised that TK Maxx wait for alleged shoplifters to commit two offences before doing anything about it. Being a former policeman, I have serious doubts as to the lawfulness of such a practice. Certainly, a legal professional would challenge it if a case ever went to court.

 

Unless they physically witnessed your friend change the labels with their own eyes - CCTV footage alone is not enough - it would be difficult for them to justify contacting the police. If your friend did not succeed in obtaining a pecuniary advantage - a discount - without actually seeing them change the labels, it is difficult for TK Maxx to do anything.

 

As for T K Maxx putting people's photos in local newspapers, unless they have irrefutable evidence of any criminal offence, they would be very unwise to do so. A convenience store, near to where I live, put up photos of people they "believed" had stolen from their shop in the window, facing outwards. When someone they accused threatened them with legal action, they made the mistake of claiming the police told them to do it. The person then checked with the police who paid the retailer a visit and ordered them to take the photos out of the window.

 

Thanks very much for your response. It's much appreciated.

 

Dodgeball I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that if she goes back in there with legitimate intentions that they can have her arrested even if she hasn't committed a second offence?

[SabreSheep]

Windr, your probably best to start your own thread to discuss your friends problem in more detail

[old bill]

They can ask her to leave.

[renegadeimp]

Thanks very much for your response. It's much appreciated.

 

Dodgeball I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that if she goes back in there with legitimate intentions that they can have her arrested even if she hasn't committed a second offence?

 

They can ask her to leave. If she doesnt, then they MIGHT call the police, but the police would only respond for a breach of the peace. If she is recognised and asked to leave, its best to leave quietly and then nothing further will happen.

[ims21]

windr,

 

I have moved your initial post and the subsequent replies to a thread of your own.

[Peterbard]

Hi there

 

A friend of mine put some clearance stickers over two full prices pairs I jeans and attempted to pay for them. The clerk noticed and peeled off the red stickers and asked her colleague to check whether the original price had been discounted. My friend played dumb and was never asked nor accused of swapping by the clerk and she then went on to purchase one pair of the jeans (at full price) as well as some other items she intended to buy (also at full price) and then walked out of the store with no one following to apprehend her.

 

My friend saw the clerk write something down on a notepad with various headings. She thinks it was details of the items but can't be sure. The book had other entries, assuming many others have tried the same.

 

My question is.. As they didn't apprehend her then, but did know that the prices were changed, can they review CCTV footage and have her arrested by the police? It wouldn't be that hard for them to find surely as the clerk may have made a note of the time when it happened...?

 

My friend is sick with worry that the police are going to knock on her door or put her picture in the local paper for identification.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks very much for your response. It's much appreciated.

 

Dodgeball I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that if she goes back in there with legitimate intentions that they can have her arrested even if she hasn't committed a second offence?

 

No I merely wondered how the security staff were to pursue a theft if it had not yet occurred. It eems commons sense that they would wait until the offense was committed before they would act.

 

As far as the incident here is concerned there is no need for any worry, there was no criminal offence committed, the only possible action would be interference to goods, which is a civil tort, however since there are no demonstrable damages involved there would be no actionable tort.

 

I think your friend is worrying unnecessarily.

[BazzaS]

 

No I merely wondered how the security staff were to pursue a theft if it had not yet occurred. It eems commons sense that they would wait until the offense was committed before they would act.

 

As far as the incident here is concerned there is no need for any worry, there was no criminal offence committed, the only possible action would be interference to goods, which is a civil tort, however since there are no demonstrable damages involved there would be no actionable tort.

 

I think your friend is worrying unnecessarily.

 

Except you refer to theft, where the intent to permanently deprive has to be out into effect (eg by leaving the store)

 

Fraud by false representation doesn't need to succeed for the offence to be made out.

 

The OP's friend couldn't successfully be prosecuted for theft.

A prosecution for fraud by false representation or for attempted theft might well succeed.

[Peterbard]

Not on this world, such a charge would never be brought under these circumstances.

 

Police would not be interested.

[BazzaS]

Not on this world, such a charge would never be brought under these circumstances.

 

Police would not be interested.

 

Why not?

 

I accept it may not ever reach the CPS: but it would likely meet the CPS prosecution guidelines : in public interest to pursue, and reasonable prospect of successful prosecution .

[Peterbard]

Why not?

 

I accept it may not ever reach the CPS: but it would likely meet the CPS prosecution guidelines : in public interest to pursue, and reasonable prospect of successful prosecution .

 

You think it would be in the public interest to spend money prospecting in a case like this ? As said not in this world.

[BazzaS]

You think it would be in the public interest to spend money prospecting in a case like this ? As said not in this world.

 

Depends ..... Fare dodging isn't the crime of the century, yet it is still in the public interest to prosecute.

There must be a balance between the scale of the offence and the scale to which it is occurring.

 

If an offence is widespread, it may still be in the public interest to avoid a tacit admission of "its not for very much, so we'll accept it happens and let it slide"

[Wndr]

Thank you all very much for your responses. I've told her to avoid that tk maxx for a while. I've also recommended she seek some legal advice if she's really that worried; however, as it is her first offence and she was unsuccessful at it she might not really have that much to worry about. Just hope she never does I again. I think she missed her mess that day as it's very unlike her.

 

Thanks again!

[renegadeimp]

She doesnt need to waste money on any legal advice. Nothing will happen. Just ignore RLP, wait a few months and carry on.

 

One thing i have to ask is why is she so desperate to continue shopping in a terrible store?

[maxxer]

I don't come on here as often as I should it seems.

 

oldbill spewing out stuff he has no idea about. Claiming all sorts of things about 'wont ever get past a courtroom' etc etc, when its been tried, tested, and weekly cases go to court and get found guilty.

 

However, those sheets the OP talks about, is simply a method of recording the fact they have detected a switched ticket.

It does go to loss prevention, but its simply an indicator of the level of crime going on inside a store, s

o they can plan more people / less people in the stores. They do the same with empty packaging and found security tags.

 

With regard to the '2 offences' thing I have spoken about before

- this is only for refund fraud, NOT ticket switching.

 

 

If loss prevention saw it on camera, followed them to the till on camera,

saw the sale take place and the cashier being deceived into thinking that's the correct price,

then they would of made the stop when the transaction was completed,

and your friend would of been taken into the holding room, and the police called.

 

I would keep away from the store for a while, as if the cashier sees your friend again,

they will call the cctv room, and your friend may end up being followed on camera whilst in the store.

If they never do anything silly again, then no issues. If they do, then the above may result.

[old bill]

I don't come on here as often as I should it seems.

 

 

oldbill spewing out stuff he has no idea about. Claiming all sorts of things about 'wont ever get past a courtroom' etc etc, when its been tried, tested, and weekly cases go to court and get found guilty.

Actually, I do know what I am talking about, Maxxer. And as for cases being "tried, tested and go to court and get found guilty weekly", I would say that those who have had success with such cases have been lucky so far. There are significant issues involving the equitable jurisdiction of the courts in a lot of cases, especially in the magistrates courts, with too many JPs in some areas simply rubber-stamping what the police tell them without doing what they are supposed to do and that is to weigh and test the evidence put before them. What is needed is better-quality training and far stricter vetting of security staff and for police officers to learn the law and not make it up as they go along, something which is rife within the police service.

 

However, those sheets the OP talks about, is simply a method of recording the fact they have detected a switched ticket. It does go to loss prevention, but its simply an indicator of the level of crime going on inside a store, so they can plan more people / less people in the stores. They do the same with empty packaging and found security tags.

 

 

 

 

With regard to the '2 offences' thing I have spoken about before - this is only for refund fraud, NOT ticket switching. If loss prevention saw it on camera, followed them to the till on camera, saw the sale take place and the cashier being deceived into thinking that's the correct price, then they would of made the stop when the transaction was completed, and your friend would of been taken into the holding room, and the police called. I find this somewhat "unusual". Does not EPOS rely on a central server with relevant pricing information stored upon it and is it not open to the cashier to check a price with a supervisor?

 

 

I would keep away from the store for a while, as if the cashier sees your friend again, they will call the cctv room, and your friend may end up being followed on camera whilst in the store. If they never do anything silly again, then no issues. If they do, then the above may result.

 

Responses in red text. Sorry, Maxxer, I do not know who has been training TK Maxx's Loss Prevention personnel, but some of the practices you highlight would be open to challenge and, quite possibly, brought into question if a skilful lawyer who knew their job decided to pull evidence apart during cross-examination.

[speranza]

Responses in red text. Sorry, Maxxer, I do not know who has been training TK Maxx's Loss Prevention personnel, but some of the practices you highlight would be open to challenge and, quite possibly, brought into question if a skilful lawyer who knew their job decided to pull evidence apart during cross-examination.

 

 

Please old bill, you seem very knowledgeable in these matters and I would highly appreciate some advice from you on a similar matter I have posted on this forum.

 

Many thanks in advance!

[old bill]

Please old bill, you seem very knowledgeable in these matters and I would highly appreciate some advice from you on a similar matter I have posted on this forum.

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

Could you provide a link, please?

[speranza]

Could you provide a link, please?

 

Thank you!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?437382-Fraud-by-false-rep-need-guidance&p=4655595&viewfull=1#post4655595