Complaint against JCP adviser - recording the conversation

[DarwinUK]

I have had a compliant against the DWP since 2012. Long story. Now my partner is getting ear bashing.

We have placed a complaint against two members of staff for victimisation and disability discrimination under the equality act.

My partner still has to see one of the advisors that the claim is against. The problem is that both advisors sit right next to each other, and they both seem to back each other up and dive in.

My partner recorded the conversation today. It was the only way to prove that our complaint under the equality act is correct. We now have a recorded conversation proving that these two staff dont follow proceedures, are victimising and discrimination against us, specifically my partner.

So can I ask. Because recording the conversation covertly was the only way to get the evidence we needed, can we therefore transcribe to conversation and hand it in as evidence backing up the letters we handed in, and offer the recording on a CD if required. My partner wasnt in a private room, she was shouted at and harrassed out in the main room with other staff and claimants. Our arguement is that if it had been in a private room, and the staff had been informed we were recording, then the staff wouldnt have commited the crime(s), and we wouldnt have been able to prove it.

So we are between a rock and a hard place. Obey the law and get nothing, or break the law and get the proof.

Thanks

[antone]

I do not believe there should be any legal problem with what you propose to do. It's generally OK to record conversation in this way, although of course you should not do anything daft like post the recording on Youtube. But a transcript submitted as part of a complaint is not being "published" in the normally understood sense of the word.

 

I'll put your post in a new thread where it should hopefully get more responses.

[DarwinUK]

Antone, your brilliant, thank you for that.

[jasta11]

As Antone says, nothing to stop you submitting a written transcript as evidence. It's your right to record either openly or covertly 'for the purposes of gathering information for your own domestic use' - though the DWP would have us believe that we're not allowed to do this (even though they record us!).

 

It's a sad day when we now have to resort to recording the very people who are supposed to be helping us, but they're the ones causing the problem not us. Keep recording ALL meetings.

[essexmat]

I met someone who I see at the JCP and INGEUS walking along my road today and as I am incapacitated at the moment asked him in for a coffee and a chat. He told me he went to the JCP earlier to ask for some advice on something and was told "it is not your signing day and you are not allowed to be in the building" He said "I want to pass a note to my adviser can you pass it on to them for me please and sign to say I hand delivered it" He was told they do not do this and they would stop his benefits if he did not leave the building. What a lovely bunch of people who are supposed to be there to HELP PEOPLE not belittle them

[antone]

I met someone who I see at the JCP and INGEUS walking along my road today and as I am incapacitated at the moment asked him in for a coffee and a chat. He told me he went to the JCP earlier to ask for some advice on something and was told "it is not your signing day and you are not allowed to be in the building" He said "I want to pass a note to my adviser can you pass it on to them for me please and sign to say I hand delivered it" He was told they do not do this and they would stop his benefits if he did not leave the building. What a lovely bunch of people who are supposed to be there to HELP PEOPLE not belittle them

 

Assuming this story isn't garbled in some way (lots of these stories are) then this sort of behaviour from JC staff is not policy - it's grounds for complaint.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

I met someone who I see at the JCP and INGEUS walking along my road today and as I am incapacitated at the moment asked him in for a coffee and a chat. He told me he went to the JCP earlier to ask for some advice on something and was told "it is not your signing day and you are not allowed to be in the building" He said "I want to pass a note to my adviser can you pass it on to them for me please and sign to say I hand delivered it" He was told they do not do this and they would stop his benefits if he did not leave the building. What a lovely bunch of people who are supposed to be there to HELP PEOPLE not belittle them

 

Unbelievable, what a lovely bunch of people they are NOT!!!

[DarwinUK]

Hi Everyone.

 

Ive now listened to the recorded conversation. The only two things the DWP might throw at us is "Data Protection" because of all the other claimants and the staffs own privacy.

Having listened to the recording, the only three clear voices we can hear is my partners, her advisor and the second advisor when she butts in. All the other background noise is garbled and not recognisable as anything specific, and nothing can be heard to anyone elses personal data.

So I believe that as such there is no breach under the data protection act. And Im working on the basis that as public servants who are breaking the law, then the advisors have no right to privacy under the circumstances.

Im getting another letter written and want to word it right as I know they are going to throw the above at me, so I want to nip that in the bud from the start.

[jasta11]

They can only complain if you broadcast the recording, ie post it on the internet or play it back to anyone not in your domestic circle.

 

Here's a copy of a Freedom of Information response from the Information Commissioner's Office stating that Section 36 of the Data Protection Act allows for covert recordings for private use;

 

26 September 2012

 

Case Reference Number ENQ0465807

 

Dear Mr xxxx

 

Thank you for your correspondence of 23 September in which you ask if an

individual cannot covertly record conversations when they are solely for

their domestic use.

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA), Section 36, there is an

exemption which states that “personal data are exempt from the Data

Protection Principles and the provisions of Part II (individuals’ rights)

and Part III (notification) of the Act where they are processed by an

individual only for the purposes of that individual’s personal, family or

household affairs (including recreational purposes).”

 

This means that an individual can carry out covert recordings without

being in breach of the DPA as long as the information is for their own

personal and domestic use.

 

I hope this information is helpful. If we can be of any further assistance

please call me, or contact our Helpline on 0303 123 1113, quoting your

case reference number. You will also find useful information on our

website at [1]www.ico.gov.uk.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Michelle Hazlehurst

 

Case Officer - First Contact Group

Information Commissioner's Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow,

Cheshire, SK9 5AF

Tel: 0303 123 1113 Fax: 01625 524 510

 

You can throw this into the pot if the DWP get stroppy as the Information Commissioner tells them what to do

[DarwinUK]

 

You can throw this into the pot if the DWP get stroppy as the Information Commissioner tells them what to do

 

That is pure magic. Ive added that to my letter. My partner is next in there on Monday, we are going to let them kick off first with their threats, then she is going to hand over our letter.

Im going to be making a donation thursday night as you guys have given me the piece of mind to have a good nights sleep tonight, knowing that IM IN CONTROL of this situation now.

This has been going on since oct 2012, and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Ive had 20 months of having to fight them which could have been used more constructively actually looking for more jobs, rather than worrying about what verbal we're going to get at the next meeting. You dont know how helpful you have all been with this as to explain the whole complaint would take more of your server space than you probably have.

So a BIG thank you to you all.

[DarwinUK]

In fact Ive just been and donated now. Guess who's one happy chappy with a big grin on his face ))))

[antone]

In fact Ive just been and donated now. Guess who's one happy chappy with a big grin on his face ))))

 

Thank you very much, and I hope this gets sorted out to your satisfaction. As noted, there would only be data protection issues if you "published" the recording by posting it online or the like. If you simply send a transcript to the complaint handling people at the Jobcentre, only they and you will see it.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

In fact Ive just been and donated now. Guess who's one happy chappy with a big grin on his face ))))

 

Let us know what happens

[jasta11]

That is pure magic. Ive added that to my letter. My partner is next in there on Monday, we are going to let them kick off first with their threats, then she is going to hand over our letter.

Im going to be making a donation thursday night as you guys have given me the piece of mind to have a good nights sleep tonight, knowing that IM IN CONTROL of this situation now.

This has been going on since oct 2012, and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Ive had 20 months of having to fight them which could have been used more constructively actually looking for more jobs, rather than worrying about what verbal we're going to get at the next meeting. You dont know how helpful you have all been with this as to explain the whole complaint would take more of your server space than you probably have.

So a BIG thank you to you all.

 

Keep a regular eye on this website too; https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/dwp

 

These are DWP Central Office replies to all sorts of Freedom Of Information requests by people and are very useful when dealing with advisers who don't know the rules. New stuff added daily.

[DarwinUK]

Hello Guys.

 

Just an update for you all. I will try to keep this short.

 

My partner is now on ESA, and I am the working side. We had the medical which I said I wanted to record, they refused, sanctioned us, had to appeal, tribunal, we won, I had a big bust up with my job centre, told them where to go fly of and quit harassing my partner, got banned and had to go to the nearest town for three months, easy.

Had a interview at my local JCP behind glass, the woman started, I was literary shouting, screaming, swearing, telling her to quit her verbal and get on with it, she was visibly shaking.

Had a letter after 6 months re me having app in my JCP. I wrote back saying I wanted to go to the nearest town office as I didnt like my own JCP, and that they were going to kick off and I would bite and get loud, and that amounts to no help at all.

They called and spoke to my partner saying they couldnt send me to the other office as they didnt have the staff, thankfully she was switched on and replied "The unemployment figures have gone down for our county, so less claimants so should be less work, plus you had the staff when you banned him for 3 months.". Silence....... OK well as everything is OK we will leave it at that, thanks for your time.

 

We haven't heard from them for over two years. Bliss

 

The morale of the story is that you need to search forums like this one, plus the whatdotheyknow (which has given me fantastic ammo), and then be confident enough to go and take no prisoners. You have to be so switched on as they throw stuff at you all the time so quickly. I love it, I always signed on before my partner, so pre warned her of what was going to happen. Ive had them try their bull and Ive thrown it back at them, accused them of lieing in front of other claimants. Hence why they targeted my partner. Shes not stupid, very smart, but not as quick as me, and she would rather take an easy life than kick off.

 

So Im glad for all the help you have all given, been wonderfull.