CH4 prog How to get a Council House. Any thoughts?

[estellyn]

the bit that everyone seems to be missing here,these people in tower hamlets on benefits cant afford to live there now that the council has started capping benefits,this has been pointed out to them by the council employees that are employed by the council to tell them,these council employees probably don't live in London,because they cant afford to! this has been going on for years,Ive spoken to many many council employees that work in London and commute in to their jobs,they are sick to the back teeth of people on benefits getting their money and living all cosy while they have to commute in every day through the traffic jams to sort their problems out,its a joke!

 

 

So instead of blaming the government for not implementing rent controls and legislation to regulate the private rental industry, they are spending their energy blaming people who claim benefits for whatever reason. Sounds like the government system of pass the blame is working well.

 

 

So where should benefit claimants live in if not in London (or anywhere in decent housing as LHA only pays for the dregs of rented housing in any area). Are they saying there should be slum districts where people down on benefits should live, because that is where this could easily lead. And at what point should a person who has lost their job or can't work be moved to the slum district?

 

 

It's strange how right wing 'morality' allows people to be paid a pittance of money and live in a hovel, as long as the money they have is less than any working person, and the hovel they live in is worse than any working person's - well you can't have a 'non contributor', living better than a 'contributor'. Hey, I think I've found a whole new career path for people - being a 'fairness' inspector -

 

 

'well, I'm sorry sir, but there are working people in this street who can't afford to buy a new washing machine, so I'm afraid you can't have one. And that TV exceeds the maximum screen size allowed - poor working people in this area can only afford a 28 inch TV and you have a 32 inch. And what are you having for dinner sir? Steak your mum gave you as a present so you could have a nice anniversary meal? Well sorry, I'm going to have to take that as well, working people cannot afford steak, so present or not, you can't have it - here's a can of corned beef. And there really is hardly any mould on your walls, sir, and the rooms are far too large, you're far too comfortable here, I'm afraid we're going to have to move you and reclassify this as WPH - working poor housing. Don't worry, you'll be very happy 200 miles away in our special S&S housing (skivers and shirkers housing).'

[estellyn]

most of the people I ever met in tower hamlets were living cosy on benefits,I lived in that area for twenty years up until 2007,most folk I knew were on benefits and working casual in London,its got a lot tougher for people recently,working casual and being on benefits has been made a lot tougher as businesses are being fined more and there is less casual work around because of the influx of east European immigrants.

 

 

It must be the time of night but.... so you talked to most of the people you ever met in tower hamlets about their income and their benefits did you? That's really strange, because apart from professionally, I couldn't tell you the income source (for sure) of most of the people I've met in any of the places I've lived. Even work colleagues, I knew they had wages from work, but couldn't tell you the other benefits most of them claimed. You must lead a very strange life, going around talking to most of the people you meet about how they get money and the benefits they claim. Bizarre.

[citizenkain]

I talked to enough people in tower hamlets to get the general idea!,thats why you see and hear of people,dont take my word for it estellyn,travelling from the other side of the world through several countries to get to the uk even if they have to stowaway in the back of lorries to get here!.must be some good reason for that!

Maybe they do that just to broaden their horizons.

[sadone]

It's strange how right wing 'morality' allows people to be paid a pittance of money and live in a hovel, as long as the money they have is less than any working person, and the hovel they live in is worse than any working person's - well you can't have a 'non contributor', living better than a 'contributor'. Hey, I think I've found a whole new career path for people - being a 'fairness' inspector -

 

 

'well, I'm sorry sir, but there are working people in this street who can't afford to buy a new washing machine, so I'm afraid you can't have one. And that TV exceeds the maximum screen size allowed - poor working people in this area can only afford a 28 inch TV and you have a 32 inch. And what are you having for dinner sir? Steak your mum gave you as a present so you could have a nice anniversary meal? Well sorry, I'm going to have to take that as well, working people cannot afford steak, so present or not, you can't have it - here's a can of corned beef. And there really is hardly any mould on your walls, sir, and the rooms are far too large, you're far too comfortable here, I'm afraid we're going to have to move you and reclassify this as WPH - working poor housing. Don't worry, you'll be very happy 200 miles away in our special S&S housing (skivers and shirkers housing).'

 

This!!

 

Dear god what is it with the UK today that makes people dance to the governments tune of hate and envy.

 

Oh I know, the bloody coalition b*stards...

[estellyn]

I talked to enough people in tower hamlets to get the general idea!,thats why you see and hear of people,dont take my word for it estellyn,travelling from the other side of the world through several countries to get to the uk even if they have to stowaway in the back of lorries to get here!.must be some good reason for that!

Maybe they do that just to broaden their horizons.

 

 

No, you talked to a few people then combined the impressions you had from your discussions with reports in the media and then made assumptions about a large group of people - 240,000 people live in Tower Hamlets.

 

 

And people don't travel here hidden in lorries for our benefits system - they are illegal immigrants and can't claim benefits!

[citizenkain]

no,I didn't combine any impressions,I know all about tower hamlets as I have been there many times,how many times have you been there? also,you will find that illegal immigrants do cost this country millions or are you living in cloud cuckoo land? they also commit a good percentage of the street crime in that area and that's before they get housed and their benefits sorted

[antone]

Illegal immigrants are not entitled to benefits. That's not really a point for debate, it's simply a fact. Incidentally, neither are those who enter the country seeking asylum.

[estellyn]

no,I didn't combine any impressions,I know all about tower hamlets as I have been there many times,how many times have you been there? also,you will find that illegal immigrants do cost this country millions or are you living in cloud cuckoo land? they also commit a good percentage of the street crime in that area and that's before they get housed and their benefits sorted

 

 

How many people in tower hamlets have you personally spoken to socially about their benefits?

[sadone]

How many people in tower hamlets have you personally spoken to socially about their benefits?

 

Exactly.

[citizenkain]

• 155,000 illegal immigrants qualified for sickness benefits and maternity pay
  
• Work and Pensions Department did not ask for work permits when assessing certain claims
   
  

Tens of thousands of workers with no right to be in Britain have been claiming benefits thanks to an extraordinary loophole in the law.

Ministers have discovered that Labour allowed 155,000 illegal immigrants to qualify for sickness benefits and maternity pay. Government sources put the cost to the public purse at ‘tens of millions of pounds’

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1356696/155k-illegal-workers-claiming-benefits-Law-loophole-costs-British-taxpayers-millions.html#ixzz2zGN8oiNI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Edited April 19, 2014 by citizenB

[citizenkain]

legally so called illegals get vouchers while their asylum goes through,before they get their council house etc.

[estellyn]

• 155,000 illegal immigrants qualified for sickness benefits and maternity pay
  
• Work and Pensions Department did not ask for work permits when assessing certain claims
   
  

 

Tens of thousands of workers with no right to be in Britain have been claiming benefits thanks to an extraordinary loophole in the law.

Ministers have discovered that Labour allowed 155,000 illegal immigrants to qualify for sickness benefits and maternity pay. Government sources put the cost to the public purse at ‘tens of millions of pounds’

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1356696/155k-illegal-workers-claiming-benefits-Law-loophole-costs-British-taxpayers-millions.html#ixzz2zGN8oiNI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

 

Do you believe everything you read in the Daily Mail? It certainly explains your viewpoint.

 

 

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/illegal_workers_claiming_benefits-2506

Edited April 19, 2014 by citizenB
reduced font size

[estellyn]

legally so called illegals get vouchers while their asylum goes through,before they get their council house etc.

 

If they are asylum seekers, they are not illegal, are they?

 

 

Or should we turn away people who have been raped, tortured and in fear of their lives in their home country?

 

 

I worked with a former asylum seeker for a few years, what he and his family went through is unimaginable to most people living in the UK. Yes he went through the asylum system. I have no idea what housing he lived in, but he went on to work full time helping his community and others for the same charity I worked for. He was also highly intelligent and studying for a masters degree by the time I met him.

 

 

It's much harder to have prejudices when you get to know the individuals and stop looking at the 'group'.

[antone]

Well, here's the thing - as Estellyn says, asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants, but broadly speaking they are not entitled to DWP benefits until their application is accepted and they are granted FLR or ELR. They do, in some cases, get a small stipend from the Home Office - when I left the DWP in 2010 it was about £40 per week to cover everything.

 

Also, they are often given housing, because that's better than having them sleeping under bridges. In my home city of Glasgow, there is a development known as the "Red Road Flats". It's iconic in the city, and as you approach from the north on the M80 it dominates the skyline - eight tower blocks that were, when they were built in the 60s, the tallest residential buildings in Europe.

 

Of course, they're uninhabitable slums now. Two of the eight buildings have been demolished. Five of the six that remain are slated for demolition in the next couple of years and are unoccupied. The one that remains inhabited? Asylum seekers live there. We generously house them in one of Europe's most notorious hellholes. It's a shame, really, because there was a time when we, as Brits, could at least pretend to be compassionate and civilised.

[citizenkain]

well at least they came here and got a house!,lol,the red road flats exresidents are being posted all over Glasgow so maybe they will be able to integrate better than they were,they certainly get their benefits etc in Glasgow area

[antone]

Well, I have no problem with people fleeing from rape, murder and torture being offered a house in this country. They don't get benefits, as I pointed out, though the Home Office does pay them a small amount of money. I have no problem with that either.

 

And yes, the other residents of Red Road have been rehoused. What would you have us do? "Sorry guys, we're about to blow up your house. You're on your own now."

[citizenkain]

they get plenty benefits,as for the red road flats,they were better than the Glasgow tenements that folk were living in for years,in fact,the red road flats were heaven compared to the slums they replaced

[estellyn]

they get plenty benefits

 

 

You know, just repeating the same thing over and over doesn't make it true - show us some evidence.

[citizenkain]

Ive already shown it estellyn,try and educate yourself its not my job.

[antone]

they get plenty benefits,as for the red road flats,they were better than the Glasgow tenements that folk were living in for years,in fact,the red road flats were heaven compared to the slums they replaced

 

They were, yes - Red Road was a paradise compared to what it replaced. But it has not been such for a very long time now. In fact, it's pretty much the definition of urban deprivation and poverty - or it was, until they moved everyone out except the asylum seekers. What does that say about us? We take people fleeing for their lives and offer them a place to live that has been condemned as unfit for human habitation. Oh, and they don't get benefits.

 

As to illegal immigrants and benefits, I don't know how often we need to say this: illegal immigrants are not entitled to benefits. For that matter, plenty of legal immigrants are not entitled to benefits either. My wife was not, for her first couple of years in this country. She now has ILR and can claim, but she works so we do not receive any benefits. Of course, no-one actually thinks of her as a "proper" immigrant - she's white and speaks English as her native language.

 

If you're aware of any illegal immigrants getting benefits, report them for fraud. I presume, since you apparently know all the details of the benefit situation of every single resident of Tower Hamlets, you must also be aware of their immigration status, yes?

[estellyn]

Ive already shown it estellyn,try and educate yourself its not my job.

 

 

I continue educating myself every day, thanks, as intelligent people try to do, but maybe you should read my post and article showing that your DM article (your stated 'evidence') was less than accurate and then provide a new source.

[antone]

Ive already shown it estellyn,try and educate yourself its not my job.

 

You haven't "shown" anything. You've asserted things, and declined to provide evidence to support those assertions.

[citizenkain]

its a bit pointless me trying to tell you that illegal immigrants get benefits,they do get payments in some form of another,if you want to think they don't that's up to you,obviously they come here to this country in the back of a lorry with a bag of gold as their spending money? As for reporting illegal immigrants for fraud because they get payments,a bit pointless,the government already know who they are,their paying them.Theres plenty of evidence for the millions that illegal immigrants cost this country if you look for it.

[sadone]

How do you know this for certain? Do you run some sort of 'these buggers are getting more then me' surveillance scheme in your area? Do you break into their homes and riffle through their bank statements? I mean how do you know all this?

 

Maybe doing your research and reading something other then right wing propaganda rags wouldn't go amiss now and again.

[citizenkain]

I do my own research that's how I know this to be fact,I certainly don't read right wing propaganda mags,I live in the real world.