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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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Lee vs HSBC


LeeS80
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Hi all,

 

Just starting my process today, sent SAR letter to HSBC this morning via 1st Class Recorded delivery. They passed on my account ni January 2004 to MCS so I've requested data from them also - I'll post any updates as and when they come in.

 

Bit of background to my claim:

 

Some of my claim may well run farther back than 6 years as I got into trouble from around late 1999 - however I'll still be pressing for the amounts back. The bank were quick to offer me credit & debit cards, flexi loan accounts, personal loans etc. As soon as my circumstances changed I was pretty much pushed into a "managed loan" and things went downhill from there! Account is now closed with HSBC as of 2004.

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hi lee

We had the same problem still paying off managed load which we had to take out because all the charges they put on the account.

 

We are at the final stages of our claim now having just been offered a final settlement which we declined.

keep at them Lee it will be worth it n the long run

xxx Ali xxx

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Hi all,

 

Latest letter received today,

 

" Reference: FREEPROD/LETOUT

 

2 November 2006

Dear Mr LeeS80

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your request with regard to information about transactions and charges on your accounts.

We will forward to you copies of statements covering the period in question. These will begin to arrive in separate batches and will be with you shortly.

We are happy to cover any fees for the production of this information and we return your payment.

Although many of our systems are automated, a “manual intervention” by HSBC staff may be required in a variety of situations including; account opening, dealing with correspondence or telephone calls, when deposits or withdrawals are made over the counter at our branches and from time to time during account administration.

If you require more information, please let us know.

Yours sincerely

 

Ian Shepherd

Centre Manager"

I take it this is the same as everyone receives, I await my statements! Quite exciting really!

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Right, ready to send off my prelim tomorrow, does this look ok??

 

"Dear Mr Langdale,

Account No. xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx

I am writing in relation to the above account. Upon receiving my statements dating from October 2000 through January 2004, I believe there to have been unlawful charges placed on my account. The total sum of these charges is £913.50. I have enclosed a breakdown of these charges for your reference. Should this matter reach a county court, then further costs will be added as necessary.

I believe these charges in relation to unpaid direct debits total charges and so forth to be unlawful in common law and statute regulations. If you believe this is not the case, I would kindly request a written response with your explanation as to why this might be. I would like this response to include a full and comprehensive breakdown of the costs that HSBC has incurred as a result of my account management.

I would draw your attention to the decision of the OFT who in April 2006 did declare that current bank charges are unfairly high and disproportionate. The Financial Ombudsman has also, in November 2006, launched a full investigation into such charges.

I would politely remind you that it was an implied term at the time of signing my contract that the bank would conduct themselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. It appears that this has not been the case.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me in relation to the matter at hand. I do not expect to receive an automated computer response to my request. I hereby request that you reply to my correspondence within 14 days. I would request that full and unconditional payment be made by cheque payable to myself.

Should I not receive a response within the allocated 14 days I will assume that you do not wish to comply with my request. I will then proceed to issue a letter before action in which a further 14 days will be granted. I believe this time period to be fair. Should I not receive sufficient correspondence within this time, I shall begin proceedings with my county court to recover the costs."

I've taken the template and jiggled it around a bit, just to be different! Anyone think this is ok or not ?

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Right, ready to send off my prelim tomorrow, does this look ok??

 

"Dear Mr Langdale,

 

Account No. xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx

 

I am writing in relation to the above account. Upon receiving my statements dating from October 2000 through January 2004, I believe there to have been unlawful charges placed on my account. The total sum of these charges is £913.50. I have enclosed a breakdown of these charges for your reference. [should this matter reach a county court, then further costs will be added as necessary.] - Maybe this bit is unnecessary?

 

I believe these charges in relation to unpaid direct debits total charges and so forth to be unlawful in common law and statute regulations. If you believe this is not the case, I would kindly request a written response with your explanation as to why this might be. I would like this response to include a full and comprehensive breakdown of the costs that HSBC has incurred as a result of my account management.

 

I would draw your attention to the decision of the OFT who in April 2006 did declare that current bank charges are unfairly high and disproportionate. The Financial Ombudsman has also, in November 2006, launched a full investigation into such charges.

 

I would politely remind you that it was an implied term at the time of signing my contract that the bank would conduct themselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. It appears that this has not been the case.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me in relation to the matter at hand. I do not expect to receive an automated computer response to my request. I hereby request that you reply to my correspondence within 14 days. I would request that full and unconditional payment be made by cheque payable to myself.

 

Should I not receive a response within the allocated 14 days [i will assume that you do not wish to comply with my request.]- also not needed? I will then proceed to issue a letter before action in which a further 14 days will be granted. I believe this time period to be fair. Should I not receive a positive response within this time, I shall begin proceedings with my county court to recover the charges."

 

I've taken the template and jiggled it around a bit, just to be different! Anyone think this is ok or not ?

 

Just my opinion :)

 

best of luck with this

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sent my prelim off on 9th, and have had to wait until now for royal mail to tell me it is considered missing. :mad: I sent this recorded delivery so I guess I'll have to re-send!! What a pain, another two weeks wasted, mind you, the extra money will come in handy after christmas!! :grin:

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  • 4 weeks later...

20/12/06

 

Received reply from Colin Langdale.

 

"Thank you for your letter dated 9 November 2006 concerning your request for a refund of bank charges. I apologise for not yet having fully completed my investigation.

 

I will contact you again by 5 January and expect to be able to provide you with a full response at that time.

 

In the meantime I would like to thank you for your patience and enclose a copy of our leaflet which explains how these matters are dealt with. If you need to contact us please quote the above customer reference number."

 

Must admit I didn't expect a reply like this, more of a fob off letter! Anyone else received this type of response? I have my LBA ready to print and send on 5th Jan just in case the response from Mr Langdale is not favourable.

 

Cheers,

Lee

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Mornin' All,

 

Had another letter this morning from Mr Langdale.

 

"Ref:xxxxxxxxxxxx —xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxThank you for your letter dated xx November 2006 regarding your charges of £1252.81.

The bank does not agree with your contention that the charges that have been imposed constitute a penalty and are therefore unenforceable. The contract between the bank and its customers is governed by our Personal Banking Terms and Conditions. In respect of overdrafts, I would refer you specifically to clause 7.11 in section 2. If you authorise a payment that would, if met by us, lead your account going overdrawn or over an agreed limit the bank considers whether or not to make this payment and a fee is payable for this service.

 

Our fees and charges are clearly stated in our published price list and the circumstances in which these charges will apply are clearly set out in our terms and conditions which you will have been provided with a copy when you opened your account.

 

Whilst I accept that this letter will not provide the response that you hoped for, I trust I have been able to clarify the bank’s position. If you are not satisfied with the bank’s response you should now refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, as this represent our final response on this matter.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Cohn Langdale

Senior Service Quality Officer"

 

 

As Claire said, they were trying to buy more time. I'm happy that I've got this before 5th though, because now I can send off my LBA on Tuesday! :)

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TO EVERYBODY WHO HAS RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE GOOD COLIN.....................

STICK TO YOUR ORIGINAL TIMETABLE -

if he can get a couple of dozen (hundred - thousand) to hold off til he looks into it - what a vision that gives us...........

he's buying time - your time - your money...................

IGNORE THE STALLING TACTICS!

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Lee, looking at your prelim letter you asked for £913.50. Have they offered you more than you asked for?

 

BTW you didn't need to wait for his reply before sending off your LBA, you've given them 7 weeks to reply to your prelim letter.

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Hi Bong,

 

I did ask for £913.50, but the letter he says he received dated 9th November didn't get delivered (according to Royal Mail). I sent another one couple of weeks later identical in content.

 

I didn't wait to send LBA, it's just that I was away before christmas etc, and by the time I'd got paperwork sorted, Christmas was here.

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TO EVERYBODY WHO HAS RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE GOOD COLIN.....................

STICK TO YOUR ORIGINAL TIMETABLE -

if he can get a couple of dozen (hundred - thousand) to hold off til he looks into it - what a vision that gives us...........

he's buying time - your time - your money...................

IGNORE THE STALLING TACTICS!

Could not agree more!

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  • 1 month later...

No they will wait until the very last minute to enter a defence so don't expect any change for a few weeks. It is possible that you will get a partial offer but it will probably be about 10% short of what you are claiming just to see if they can entice you into settling without having to pay back everything!!

Guide to claiming back your bank charges

 

Most of your questions can be answered by following this link.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Once you have filed your claim, you need to send 2 copies of your schedule of charges, clearly marked with your claim no. + a brief covering letter asking for them to be filed with your claim to:

 

 

Quote:

The Court Manager,

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(Your Name) –v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of penalty charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

Wait until you receive the Notice of Acknowledgement (not the Notice of Issue) from the court and then send a copy to the bank’s solicitors, since they are the ones who will now be dealing with your claim

 

 

Quote:

Dear Sir,

 

(Your Name) -v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a copy of my schedule of charges relating to the above claim.

 

(If, and only if, you are claiming overdraft interest on your penalties, also include this paragraph)

 

 

I understand you have a policy of initially rejecting claims for overdraft interest. However, should this be the case after you have reviewed my claim, you should be aware that my claim for overdraft interest has been meticulously calculated and double checked. It only ever relates to the cumulative charges within the overdrawn balance of the account at the point that the overdraft interest was debited

 

If it is that in your view the interest is not claimable, I am prepared to discuss this with yourseves and the judge in court.

 

Yours sincerely,

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Cheers Laterlus, thought that was the case, best to check first! Letters sent today. They acknowledged the claim on 27/2 with no further correspondence yet. Here's hoping!

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