Rubbish Seat

[GuidoT]

Purchased a Seat from a private seller and it has been nothing but problems, these problems were not hidden by the seller but we thought they were resolved, well I did. I do not think I have any redress against the private seller.

 

The original seller had it for a year and I have had it for about the same period.

 

As soon as it is driven with any gusto, there is a loss of power occurred and the EPC (electronic power control) warning light comes on. I have had it back to Seat 9 times.

 

The car is still under the 2 year warranty, and Seat have been trying to resolve the problem.

 

The car is so much trouble I would rather just get rid, but I do not want to lose several thousand pounds and if I do.

 

Do I have any redress against Seat, bearing in mind I did not purchase the car from them direct or rather from a Seat dealer?

[heliosuk]

It will heavily depend on the service history. After the first year it's easy to invalidate the warranty from the manufacturer. Would help if you posted what the issues were, age and mileage when bought and mileage now along with service history.

[GuidoT]

No one is even mooting that we have done anything wrong to invalidate the warranty, the car was serviced at the Seat dealer.

 

The repeating issue is as above relating to loss and power. They just do not seem to be able to fix it.

 

I bought the car 1 year old £7k on clock, now 2 years old with £9K on the clock.

[heliosuk]

No one is even mooting that we have done anything wrong to invalidate the warranty, the car was serviced at the Seat dealer.

 

The repeating issue is as above relating to loss and power. They just do not seem to be able to fix it.

 

I bought the car 1 year old £7k on clock, now 2 years old with £9K on the clock.

 

Nice to see that some cars appreciate in value with every mile covered.

 

Given the nature of your response I think I know what might be happening here and indeed there is probably nothing wrong. Can you state which model it is?

 

You state that it's driven with gusto when the fault occurs. What's probably happening is that you give it so much stick that the slip control system kicks in. When this happens it illuminates a light on the dash board. It's for your safety and doing exactly what it's supposed to do. It cuts the power from the engine and applies the brakes depending on the wheel speed on each wheel.

 

To prove it, try accelerating over a speed hump so the wheels lose traction and you'll probably get the same effect.

 

Most cars with slip control systems have the ability to turn it off. This could also prove it out. Known as EPC, ESP, DSC, ESC and all based on the ABS system so if you have a button for it turn it off if possible and see if it re-occurs. ABS will not be affected usually when doing this.

 

If the problem disappears when the button is off then it's a case of RTFM as it's affectionally known!

[GuidoT]

Sorry, I did not mean to put pound signs before the '7K and 9K on the clock' in the post above, the car is worth far less than when I bought it. I tried to sell it back to the dealer but they made a low offer and said it was because of the faults!

 

I do not know enough technically, but those with far superior minds at Seat accept there is a fault and who I am to argue with that.

 

I cannot do your test as the car is with Seat.

 

It is a Bocanegra.

[heliosuk]

I'd put money on it being the traction control kicking in. Extract from auto express below.

The handling could do with more sparkle, too – the electronic XDS system eliminates the need for a mechanical differential by using the stability control to maintain traction, but it’s intrusive.

 

What they are saying is if you give it a bit of stick the slip control system kicks in far too often.

 

Given the rarity of the car is unlikely that the Seat dealer knows what they are dealing with despite being supposedly trained.

 

In the last week I visited a number of dealers overseas and from what I witnessed have actually banned technicians under a certain level from working on the range of cars as they simply don't understand the car or the systems employed.

 

Read some of the test reports if you goofle the car. They all seem to complain about similar instances though how it's described varies from customer to customer.

 

What you need to do is get a the dealer to call in a Regional Technical manager to assess the car and demonstrate the issue to that person. Only he/she can determine if the behaviours exhibited are normal or they should be able to. The dealer is not really in a position to determine what is right and what is wrong from the description of the issue you have given. It needs factory support.

[scaniaman]

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"In the last week I visited a number of dealers overseas and from what I witnessed have actually banned technicians under a certain level from working on the range of cars as they simply don't understand the car or the systems employed."

[scaniaman]

This is yet ANOTHER example of what a car expert told me on this forum some time ago.

Quote "Beyond normal service capability"

So why are the makers allowed to build this junk into cars?

[heliosuk]

Not so sure of what you are saying here scania.

 

I had an interesting conversation with a specialist in vehicle dynamics this week. It seems that the threat of litigation in the states is now spreading world wide which is why slip control systems are getting more complex. Essentially they are there to protect the drivers who drive with "gusto" with no experience getting themselves into trouble when it all goes wrong. By gusto I'm certainly not suggesting the OP has done anything wrong but it is a very good analogy of what the systems are designed to do.

This even extends to owners with caravans who get a snake on when on the motorway. The rationale is that if a manufacturer knows it could happen then they need to prevent it happening. It's a bit like the diesel DPF issue and runaways. This is why it's important to understand DFMEA's.

 

The OP's issue does indeed sound like a SCS kicking in especially given the car it is. The problem I have with this is that the dealer technicians cannot decide if it is right or wrong. In theory, with the systems employed, if there was actually a fault with the car then the warning light would be permanently on, not on and then off which is typical of the car doing what it should. There would also be a DTC registered in the memory banks.

 

The problem I and many others seem to come across is that the dealer technicians ability to follow instructions or even diagnose the problem is substantially flawed.