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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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Robinson Way - unknown debt - Ex RBS Style Card


Loanly
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because no one has posted on it for the last 2068 days.

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Thanks

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Well the card should be OK

 

You can apply for a postal report for £2 or as I say, get onto one of the main ones and go for the free trial but do remember to cancel within the 30 days.

 

Also bear in mind that Noddle is an offshoot and therefore some of their data may not be completely up to date.

 

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Nightmare. Cheers trying again.

 

Getting really annoyed with this now.

 

Next steps to complete your order

Unfortunately, we have been unable to activate your account online using the information that you have provided. Please contact our Customer Care Team to compelete your order.

 

using Equifax

 

Ok may I summarise everything so far as the thread has gone to a new page, and perhaps this thread may help somebody in the future going through a similar situation.

 

Equifax gave me my credit report. There is nothing suspicious, and no fraudulent activity, which of course was my main concern.

 

The only things listed on there are my bank accounts, which are all in green.

 

I see two 'Trace Enquiries' by this Robinson Way company, but nothing on my credit report that gives any indication as to why they are contacting me.

 

The "Prove it" letter is all you need at this stage.

 

Could you just clarify one thing for me please:

 

The template letter reads:

I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to {INSERT CREDITOR NAME}.

Now - I don't know the name of the person/company they claim I owe a debt to, as they didn't give me this information, only the following:

 

Due to: HPH LTD (Ex Style)

Our Reference: *********

Account Number: ***************

Amount Due: £279.20

and I understand HPH LTD
IS
Robinson Way..?

 

Is there a standard paragraph I could add to this letter to enquire exactly who I am supposed to owe money to?

 

Apologies if I've misunderstood or repeated myself slightly, but it feels like it maybe isn't exactly the right letter to send - I just want to be sure.

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

Yes HPH (Hoist Port Folio) own the debt now.

 

I'll draft for you this afternoon, as this is not your debt I think your feeling is correct, just let me know if this is what you want.

 

If it's no trouble, it will be appreciated, and I will send it out as quick as I can print it.

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The cards are required for ID purposes only, e.g., registered at your current address, it is normal verification procedure.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Hello again

 

:confused:

 

Equifax finally gave me my credit report. Looking at it, there is nothing suspicious on there which of course I am thankful for.

 

There appears to be no fraudulent activity, which of course was my main concern.

 

The only things listed on there are my bank accounts, which are all in green.

 

I see two 'Trace Enquiries' by this Robinson Way company.

 

So, this is all rather strange.

 

What now?

 

Ok give me a while to compose a missile and I'll get back!

 

@BRIGADIER2JCS

 

Any joy with this? Or were you going to link me to the 'prove it' letter that @ims21 mentioned or perhaps you had something similar in mind.

 

As I explained in my post above I have nothing on my credit report that could give any indication as to why Robinson Way are contacting me.

 

Thanks in advance

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Could you just clarify one thing for me please:

 

The template letter reads:

I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to {INSERT CREDITOR NAME}.

 

Now - I don't know the name of the person/company they claim I owe a debt to, as they didn't give me this information, only the following:

 

Due to: HPH LTD (Ex Style)

Our Reference: *********

Account Number: ***************

Amount Due: £279.20

 

and I understand HPH LTD is Robinson Way..?

 

Is there a standard paragraph I could add to this letter to enquire exactly who I am supposed to owe money to?

 

Apologies if I've misunderstood or repeated myself slightly, but it feels like it maybe isn't exactly the right letter to send - I just want to be sure.

 

Anyhow It will be interesting to see how they reply eventually.

Edited by Loanly
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Hi loanly,

 

Not forgotten just waiting for the CRA data, I can still draft a letter or you can use the "prove it " letter.

 

Yes HPH (Hoist Port Folio) own the debt now.

 

I'll draft for you this afternoon, as this is not your debt I think your feeling is correct, just let me know if this is what you want.

 

Within an hour approx. just cleaning up after a small flood.

 

OK Time to ignore the threat monkeys at Robbers Way and go to the top at Hoist Portfolio.

With just a copy to RW.

I will save and edit on return whilst writing this.

 

Private & Confidential

 

For the Personal Attention of:

 

Mr Najib Nathoo

CEO

Hoist Portfolio Holdings 2

First Floor Le Mesurier House

Rue Le Mesurier

St. Helier

Jersey

JE2 4YE..

 

Date...........:

 

Ref: Robinson Way Ref:....................:

 

Re: Formal Complaint:

 

Dear Mr Nathoo,

 

I write in reference to contact being made by your " collection agency" Robinson Way regarding an alleged debt supposedly purchased by Hoist Portfolio Holdings 2 from CL Finance.

 

Please take note I do not acknowledge any debt to Hoist Portfolio Holdings 2.

 

For clarification and for the avoidance of any misunderstanding I Mr xxxxx xxxxxx have now knowledge of any debt to CL Finance or any company that from which it may have acquired this alleged debt.

 

I have not been a customer of any lender, finance company, or credit card provider, my financial arrangements consist on of bank account (s) [ amend if needed] and I have therefore no outstanding credit debts.

 

Having checked my credit reference files I have found that there are no entries for any outstanding credit debts of any age.

 

From this I have concluded that I am not the debtor you seek and I deny all liability.

 

I remind you of the OFT Guidance on debt collection 2003/2006 (up dated Nov. 2012 ) and the following sections.

 

Deceptive and/or Business Methods.

 

Section 3.8 Dealings with (alleged) debtors are not to be deceitful and or unfair.

 

Section 3.9 (a) Sending demands for payment, by any means. to an individual,

when it is uncertain whether he is the actual debtor.

 

(b). Disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that he is the actual debtor.

 

(j). Requiring an individual to prove he is Not the actual debtor who owes an outstanding debt.

 

Given the information here in I require Hoist Portfolio Holdings 2 to instruct its agent Robinson Way to cease all contact in any manner and to remove All reference and data relating to me from its records with immediate effect.

 

HPH 2 will confirm in writing that it has complied with these requirements within 7 working days.

 

Any further " debt collection" activity from HPH or any associated company or agent will be treated as harassment, and I remind you of the recent judgement Robertson -v-BOS.

 

This letter is being copied to Robinson Way.

 

OK loanly??

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Sorry I didn't get to see this earlier, I had to go out and didn't get back until late.

 

Looks amazing thanks - I really don't think I would have had the confidence to come up with anything like that by myself.

 

Will be posting to them first thing tomorrow morning.

 

:)

 

Just one thing:

 

the recent judgement Robertson -v-BOS.

 

Any info on that? A quick google didn't bring up anything that seemed particularly relevant.

 

Cheers

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

Hello everyone,

 

I've been following a number of threads on here when I received a letter from the nice people at Robinson Way and started doing some research.

 

I've noticed that when some people have requested a CCA, Robinson Way have used the postal order towards the debt, so using some off the structured letters on the forum I've drifted a letter of my own.......

 

[removed]

 

So I'm now just waiting for Robinson Way to produce a document with my signature on stating that in fact I owe this debt.

 

I will keep everyone updated with this

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Any cheque or PO sent to a DCA for a SAR or CCA request should be clearly marked " For Statutory Fee Only"

Take a Photocopy of it.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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  • 1 month later...

Hello - thanks for all the help with this, drafting the letter etc, back in February. Sorry I didn't get back to the thread any sooner, it slipped my mind as I've been very busy with other things.

 

I finally received a reply from them towards the end of April.

 

Dear ***************

 

RE:Hoist Portfolio Holding Limited - Ex RBS Style Card

Account Number: ***************

 

I refer to recent communication in which you made a complaint to us regarding your account listed above. My understanding of your complaint is that you are unhappy we have contacted you in relation to an account which you do not believe you owe.

 

I am sorry you have had cause to complain and I thank you for bringing the matter to my attention. I have investigated the issues you have raised and I am now in a position to report my findings.

 

Having reviewed this matter, I can see that your address was located via a trace; however, due to the age of the account we have been unable to obtain any further information. Therefore, I have partially upheld your complaint in this instance and apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

 

I can confirm that we will not make any further attempts to contact you in relation to this matter.

 

I trust you are satisfied with my explanation which you may regard as our final response to your complaint. However, if after consideration, you remain dissatisfied you have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. You must do this within six months of the date of this letter. Enclosed is a leaflet produced by the Financial Ombudsman Service, for your information.

 

(illegible signature, no printed name)

 

Hmm. This part really annoyed me:

 

...regarding your account listed above.

 

Well of course it isn't my account as like I said I haven't taken out credit... feels they are still pinning it to me :/

 

This part annoyed me more:

 

due to the age of the account we have been unable to obtain any further information. Therefore, I have partially upheld your complaint in this instance and apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

 

Doesn't really feel like a genuine apology. Especially their use of "partially" - makes me wonder which part of the complaint are they abiding by and which part are they dismissing...

 

Not happy with their response despite assurance they will not attempt to contact me about it again.

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typical fleecing tactics

 

opps you caught us out.

 

the OFT would be happy to see this letter i'd bet!

 

just think if you'd not found CAG

 

you'd be another of the 100'000's of MUGS that think these DCA's have the powers

to just take/fleece money from you.

 

sadly 75%+ I bet of debts are paid this way

goes direct to THEIR POCKET to enable them to fund fleecing people

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I suspect that the reason DCAs never wholly admit to their incompetence in cases like this is because to do so would be an admission of their disregard for the regulatory rules that they are obliged to adhere to, and that might well come back to bite them if a complaint is made.

 

We all know that DCAs fail to carry out any sort of due diligence where tracing and documentation is concerned, and we know why; as mentioned above, some people will pay up anyway, and few complain. It is, though, worth a complaint, because the FCA are proving stricter than the OFT.

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