Suing Barclaycard over PPI

[brown1950]

I took out PPI in 1996 during a meeting with my account manager.

He signed the form and offered to post it for me.

 

My claim for PPI was rejected in May 2012 since they said that since it was posted no sale had taken place.

 

On numerous occasions I asked for the copy of the agreement since I knew that this had my account manager's signature on it.

They promised to send to me but never did.

 

 

 

 

I went to the FOS (who were excellent) and Barclays agreed with me and Barclaycard decided that I had been missold.

 

In May 2013 Barclaycard made me an offer and without me accepting it sent me a cheque.

They said in that letter that they had records going back to 2001

but if I had further records then they would be 'happy' to recalculate.

I immediately sent them statements going back to 1996.

 

Since then they have lied about the progress of my recalculation.

 

In July/August they told me my claim was very near being finalised.

 

They told me to cash the cheque I had been sent and that my claim had gone to the 'Star Chamber'

where they work on cases that have resulted in a larger payout than previously calculated.

 

In December I found out that my claim had only gone to recalculations on the 12th December.

It was confirmed to me that all previous communications had been lies

and that they could give me no date for the recalculations to take place.

 

It is now the end of January and they still refuse to give me a date.

 

I have recorded every single conversation that I have had with Barclaycard (some 25+ calls).

 

The whole process has wasted so much of my time and caused a lot of stress.

It is the lies that I have been told that has totally exhausted me.

 

I am thinking that the BCOBS court action would be the best way forward.

Since I have recorded all calls I cannot see any possible way that they can wiggle out of it.

I would however like to have compensation for their treatment of my case.

This is not just for me but for the exposure of their lies.

 

I have been meticulous about recording all conversations but this should not be necessary.

I would like to share the pain with Barclaycard.

 

I have not gone through all my recordings yet.

It will be such a painful and time wasting experience but I know it would make great court time.

 

Your site has been a real benefit to me and has been a source of information and inspiration.

 

And i would bet when Barclaycard pay up they will 'short change' you !

I have received 'settlement' from Barclaycard dating back to 1989 however according to

my calculations they have under paid by £8,000- so my claim is now with the FOS.

If you want immediate action i would strongly recommend you contact [email protected]

(Barclays Management Team) who should at least get you a settlement amount within 4 weeks.

[brown1950]

See the following thread and you will then understand taking any PPI court action could hurt your wallet.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-for-4.5-years

[wilko999]

" I would like to represent myself so any help and guidance would be very gratefully received"

 

DONT go there!

 

The linked thread above is mine. I was lucky that I got away with only £1200 in costs and it came of my final settlement of £7k in the end. My claim was speculative in the knowledge that I could probably off set costs in the event of a loss against what the initial offer was. I wouldn't go down that route again.

 

There is a lot of misleading information on this forum about what you can claim in terms of compound interest too.

[Splashy]

I would be very interested to hear what you have to say about misleading information on compound interest.

[ims21]

 

There is a lot of misleading information on this forum about what you can claim in terms of compound interest too.

 

Please be more specific.

 

What misleading information is there on this forum about the compound interest?

[Splashy]

I know you have had a hard time and you must have some useful insights but please share those with us.

 

Your comment, even though it is from experience, has far reaching consequences for many people who are trying to achieve a just result.

 

If you have something useful to add then please add it. If you do not then please clarify your statement.

[Splashy]

After 2 years and many, many phone calls I sent an email to Barclaycard and received a letter saying that it had been passed onto someone to investigate. I phoned Barclaycard before I received the letter and was told t that it had just been completed and an offer letter was in the post. I asked how much it was for and was told an amount which is far lower then my spreadsheet calculations. The man on the phone said that I could get back to them if I believed that the calculations were incorrect.

 

The next day the money offered was deposited in my account. I have not even received the offer letter yet !

 

So at least I am getting closer to the correct amount. Will just have to wait for them to recalculate again.

 

What I don't understand is how they can calculate an amount using quite a simple formula and get it so wrong. They must be using a different method of calculation that does not involve compound interest and that is why I am so interested to hear about the misleading information.

[ims21]

Splashy

 

Just to clarify what you should get back under the system of redress laid down by the regulators...

 

1-> All premiums paid

 

2->All contractual interest which arose as a result of those premiums

 

3->The account should be reconstructed with the above removed. If that reconstruction shows that in any month the account went into credit, you get 8% simple interest on that credit balance for that month.

 

4-> If the account is closed and paid off then there will be a difference between the actual amount paid and the reconstructed balance at that date. 8% simple is awarded on that difference running from the fate of the payment of the card balance up to the date of settlement of the claim.

 

 

Your calculations show that you feel there is some £50k to come back. Suing for this in court would certainly fall outside small claims and you would therefore be opening yourself up to costs.

 

Are your calculations done on the regulatory route as mentioned above or on straight compound interest?

[Splashy]

Having recalculated according to a sheet of entries that Barclaycard provided me when I asked for their calculations I have come up with a total of £55,000. Barclaycard came up with £24,778 when they did their recalculation (took them 6 months).

 

I queried this and a few other points and received a reply stating that since their redress policy had been independently assured as being in line with .... then they would not take into consideration my calculation spreadsheets.

 

I pointed out that I should have been refunded 4 overlimit charges (with interest) and received the reply that I was right and they were going to give me the extra 3.

 

I am very concerned about the methods that they use for redress. Presumably this is a computerised system for calculating redress so how can it miss the 3 extra overlimit charges and simply offer me one overlimit charge and not add any interest to that payment.

 

If they cannot even calculate those charges correctly then how can I have any confidence in their overall calculation method since it is clearly NOT in line with FOS or FSA guidance.

 

I'm not sure of the next step to take. Obviously I can go back to the Ombudsman but that would presumably take a long time and would they simply say that each bank can have its own interpretation.

 

I'm pretty confident about my spreadsheet and I attach it. I added an extra column for interest and that is taken from their spreadsheet but as far as it has been explained to me, this is the "Purchase Interest" and does not seem to relate to the interest on the PPI premiums (a figure of course that I would have liked to have seen).

[Miaspa 2010]

Hi

 

Looking at your spreadsheet, somehow its added the PPI balance carried forward to card balance and you are getting simple inerest when you shouldn't. I roughly worked it out on excel which refuses to upload and only get simple interest of £4k.

 

Eg June 1996 Card Balance £150, PPI balance 1.53. Should give a card balance of negative 148.97 not positive £151.53.

 

Sure some one more up on the FOS spreadsheet will confirm I found it cumbersome, when dealing with multiple interst rates so did my own.

[Splashy]

Thanks for taking a look. I will pm you with my email address if you don't mind and I would be very interested in putting my figures into your spreadsheet.

[dx100uk]

i'd be asking ims21 to comment

 

dx

[ims21]

Sorry...can't comment on the spreadsheet in post #11 as it has been changed from the original template.

[dx100uk]

yes I just saw those extra cols

 

dx

[Splashy]

I have removed the extra cols and added one extra one, that is a monthly interest rate so that you don't have to create multiple sheets to cater for each change of rate.

 

I attach 2 spreadsheets. The first is the original one (unchanged apart from the interest rate column) and the second is how I think it should be done. There is clearly something wrong with the original spreadsheet but I am not sure I have corrected it successfully.

 

I appreciate you have a lot on but getting this spreadsheet right is so important to pursuing claims.

[Splashy]

More info

PPI balance at start of month : spreadsheet is saying if card balance > 0 then PPI balance = 0 .. this is wrong

Card balance excluding PPI is actually card balance + ppi .. this is wrong

If card balance excluding PPI goes negative (ie in credit) then the 8% interest is zero .. this is wrong

 

The standard spreadsheet appears to be wrong at least on these three column calculations

[ims21]

Sorry...not sure what I a meant to be looking at.

 

Neither of the spreadsheets in post #18 are the original.

[BRITTAN]

Warning! They do not pay compound interest. They pay premiums + interest charged + 8%. That is all

[Splashy]

Sorry...not sure what I a meant to be looking at.

 

Neither of the spreadsheets in post #18 are the original.

 

I have added a Capital One spreadsheet that I am also working on.

This is the original spreadsheet.

I think you will agree that there is something wrong with the spreadsheet.

 

Column G has the formula =IF(E18="","",IF(E18>=0,0,I17+F18))

This should be =IF(E18="","",IF(E18>=0,I17+F18,0))

 

Column I (Card balance excluding PPI) is card balance PLUS PPI and has the formula =IF(OR(E18="",I18=""),"",E18+I18)

 

This should be =IF(OR(E18="",I18=""),"",E18-I18)

 

Column K which is 8% simple interest on balance is not calculated correctly.

 

If the last poster is correct then should we not use compound interest anyway. I am really at a loss to understand how they come up with their figures.

[ims21]

What I mean is that none of these spreadsheets conform to the template here....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

 

Contractual interest is compounded but it depends in what vein you are going to use it.

 

The title of the thread is "Suing" which presumes that a court action is in the offing. If that is the case then you can use pure compound interest and if you want to have a go at interest in restitution via the courts then you can use a higher rate than that charged by the lender.

 

I did set out above the details of what you would get under a normal regulatory award.

[Splashy]

That is where I got the spreadsheet from.

 

I am looking into why the spreadsheet I attached in my previous post does not seem to work correctly. Will post back later.

 

I really appreciate your input on this !

[ims21]

Looks to me like various formulae have been changed.

 

For example, the card balance has been entered as a positive balance which will screw up the calculations for 8% interest. The balance was written as a calculated cell based on spend and repayment amount.

[Splashy]

Sorry, back again.

 

Please find attached a corrected spreadsheet.

 

 

I understand that I have changed the column E from being calculated to being values from my statements, it is just easier and quicker to enter.

 

What is interesting is that the 8% matches what Capital One offered me.

So the result of the recalculation resulted in the same balance difference between what I have calculated.

 

 

When I queried Capital One about this my line of argument was that if 8% of something came to £1000

then the bit it was calculated from must be around £12000 and therefore I should have that back as well.

The interest element of their calculation was £2000 and they correctly calculated my premiums as being £3000.

They therefore offered me £3000 + £2000 + £1000 ... is £6000

 

The attached spreadsheet shows both types of calculation ie adding premiums to compound interest to 8% interest

and also the reconstructed balance minus the current balance

and then adding on the 8% and as you can see they are the same (of course).

 

This therefore means that my argument with Capital One was correct in that if you calculated the 8% as being £1000

then I should also get back the amount that this was derived from ie the £12000

 

I also attach my recalculated Mastercard Spreadsheet.

Both have the interest rate as a separate column since this makes multiple rates much easier to enter.

 

Perhaps it would be worthwhile using a version of this modified spreadsheet since it does make it much clearer and easier to enter.

 

If anyone is interested then I am prepared to do some more work on the spreadsheet to allow a column for charges applied

to the account since according to the FOS any charges that would not have been applied

had the account not had PPI should also be refunded (with interest).

 

I am now much more confident about the calculations since I understand how they should be calculated

and can also see how the banks are "massaging" these in order to reduce their liability.

 

 

I think the 8% is the most telling since they know that if they "massage" that figure then they are doing HMRC out of money

and potentially risk their wrath.

 

 

I am willing to bet that this 8% is correct in the vast majority of cases and hence to calculate your correct refund you can use this simple formula

 

8% interest figure = x

 

Correct redress = x + (x * 12.5)

[dx100uk]

I wonder if the 'interpretive calculations' thread guys in the MBNA forum

might be interested to here your thoughts

 

 

dx

[ims21]

Bear in mind how the 8% is calculated....

 

1. The account will be reconstructed with the PPI and associated interest removed. If that reconstruction shows that the account would have been in credit for any period then 8% simple is awarded on that credit balance for that period.

 

2. If the account has been closed and paid off there will be a difference between the reconstructed balance and the balance actually paid. 8% simple is awarded on that difference running from the date the account was paid off up to the date of the settlement of the claim.

 

From this you can see that you only get 8% on money you have actually parted with, i.e. where the other side have had use of your money for a period of time.

 

If you wish to develop the spreadsheets further then please feel free....we would happily look at any revisions.