Gross misconduct and benefits

[Bluemick2011]

Hello folks can apologise in advance for this thread if it's been answered before it just I find myself at a loss and in something of a panic.

 

First a bit if history I am mid forties and have worked since 17 and never claimed benefits so this is a new world for me . I was emergency services employee & face dismissal for gross misconduct , I will be dismissed as I am not engaging in the disciplne procedure. I was diagnosed with PTSD about 10 years ago but managed to work without incident but another incident , fortunately captured on CCTV , has left me with a head injury (I'm on anti-epilepsy meds although I don't have epilepsy ) and I suffer from daily headaches . I have been diagnosed with PTSD & severe depression both by my GP , by an independent expert and by my specialist . As a result those representing me through the disciplne procedure feel they are unable to take instruction from me and they've identified me at present as unfit to work for my present employer at least.

 

I imagine the dismissal will come within the next 3-6 months at most. I am divorced and live alone and have a mortgage , I have a couple of thousand pounds in savings (less than 5) . I understand that I won't get any JSA for around 26 weeks is that correct ? So basically I'm on my own is that the situation ? Because I'm hopefully I can work but given my sacking & medical history I'm not exactly an attractive professional proposition .

 

Like I say I've no clue what I'm eligible for so if anyone can help in anyway I'm be incredibly appreciative , thanks in advance.

 

Regards

[Mr.P]

PTSD and depression should qualify you for ESA, but I'm sure others will be able to provide you with information on the claims process.Failing that, could you negotiate a dismissal on health grounds rather than misconduct ?

[Beatrice Bee]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49245[/ATTACH]Please see attached the decision makers guidance about JSA sanctions.

 

Aren't you by any chance being harassed in the work place and have written evidence about it?

 

Weird question but no 26 weeks sanction to begin with if you leave the job because of harassment. Or are you a whistle blower?

 

Any particular reason for not engaging in the discipline procedure? Health issues is a good excuse otherwise no excuse and creating yourself loads of trouble for the future.

 

Do we need an ESA DM guidance as well to see if you start out with a 26 week sanction..

 

You really need to cooperate with the procedure as homelessness and no food is not very good. £4,000 may last for a while if interest only mortgage. You need to avoid being dismissed for gross misconduct or leave your job voluntarily.

[Bluemick2011]

PTSD and depression should qualify you for ESA, but I'm sure others will be able to provide you with information on the claims process.Failing that, could you negotiate a dismissal on health grounds rather than misconduct ?

 

Yeah that was what my legal representatives attempted but for reasons best known to themselves and apparently against their own legal advice they've refused to budge , there is a possibility for a judicial review but In all honesty I'm tired of it all. The last year has quite frankly broken me and I just need to move on under whatever the circumstances , well I suppose until the reality of having to pay the bills kicks in.

 

I never thought of ESA to be honest isn't that incredibly difficult to pass these days ? I've got PTSD both historic and a new incident , post concussion & severe depression, it's possible I may be able to access my pension early as I'll be considered unfit to perform my duties if I was still in work but that'll take months .

[antone]

It can be difficult to get a long term award of ESA, but in the short term (first couple of months) all you really need are notes from your doctor covering every day of your claim.

[Bluemick2011]

It can be difficult to get a long term award of ESA, but in the short term (first couple of months) all you really need are notes from your doctor covering every day of your claim.

 

I genuinely have no clue , I've got reasonable GP notes but an incredibly in depth psychiatric report. I suppose I need to do some DLA research as well , thanks?

 

If anyone can point me into the DLA procedure and whether I quality for any housing or other similar benefits ? I assume I wouldn't

Edited February 14, 2014 by Bluemick2011

[Beatrice Bee]

Can not see anywhere that you would not get ESA for a certain period at the beginning of your claim if dismissed for gross misconduct.

 

ESA sanctions seem to be soft touch compared to JSA. Latter max period is 3 years. ESA max period is 4 weeks.

 

Atos fails most claimants at the Work Capability Test. You get no money during the ESA reconsideration phase but you get money during the appeal period, unlike JSA claimants.

 

They do not give HB to pay the mortgage but after a certain period on benefits they pay the interest on the mortgage?

 

ESA claim sounds reasonable as opposed to claim JSA just to be told not entitled for 26 weeks to begin with.

 

They pay ESA during the initial assessment period [13 weeks ?] until Atos fails you. Then you ask the decision to be reconsidered. Then you appeal.

Edited February 15, 2014 by honeybee13
Link removed.

[Bluemick2011]

 

Can not see anywhere that you would not get ESA for a certain period at the beginning of your claim if dismissed for gross misconduct.

 

ESA sanctions seem to be soft touch compared to JSA. Latter max period is 3 years. ESA max period is 4 weeks.

 

Atos fails most claimants at the Work Capability Test. You get no money during the ESA reconsideration phase but you get money during the appeal period, unlike JSA claimants.

 

They do not give HB to pay the mortgage but after a certain period on benefits they pay the interest on the mortgage?

 

ESA claim sounds reasonable as opposed to claim JSA just to be told not entitled for 26 weeks to begin with.

 

They pay ESA during the initial assessment period [13 weeks ?] until Atos fails you. Then you ask the decision to be reconsidered. Then you appeal.

 

Thank you so much it's amazing the help on here people seem to offer, it's incredible that managing to get this age and have had a reasonably responsible job and yet have absolutely not clue about any of this . I didn't think DLA would cover me as I can get about mobility wise it's just I get incredible confused , suffer from memory, concentration and temper issues as well as pretty ridiculous headaches.

 

It's all stuff I'm going to have to learn as at the minute I'm clueless .

 

Thanks

[antone]

I genuinely have no clue , I've got reasonable GP notes but an incredibly in depth psychiatric report. I suppose I need to do some DLA research as well , thanks?

 

If anyone can point me into the DLA procedure and whether I quality for any housing or other similar benefits ? I assume I wouldn't

 

You would need to provide Med 3 notes (sometimes called "fit notes" or "sick lines") from your doctor to make an ESA claim. This would suffice at first, so if you don't expect to be ill for more than a couple of months, it would probably be OK. Eventually you would need to complete medical form ESA50 and probably undergo a face to face assessment at an Atos office. That could take a while, though.

 

ESA will not be sanctioned because of the reason you left your last job.

 

I'm not familiar with DLA (or PIP, as it normally is for new claims) but you should note that you can claim these benefits in addition to JSA or ESA - indeed, you can even claim them while you're working. Housing Benefit might be available to you if you rent the place where you live and if your household has low income/savings. If you have a partner who lives with you, their income and savings will be considered when determining your entitlement.

[Bluemick2011]

You would need to provide Med 3 notes (sometimes called "fit notes" or "sick lines") from your doctor to make an ESA claim. This would suffice at first, so if you don't expect to be ill for more than a couple of months, it would probably be OK. Eventually you would need to complete medical form ESA50 and probably undergo a face to face assessment at an Atos office. That could take a while, though.

 

ESA will not be sanctioned because of the reason you left your last job.

 

I'm not familiar with DLA (or PIP, as it normally is for new claims) but you should note that you can claim these benefits in addition to JSA or ESA - indeed, you can even claim them while you're working. Housing Benefit might be available to you if you rent the place where you live and if your household has low income/savings. If you have a partner who lives with you, their income and savings will be considered when determining your entitlement.

 

Again as to others thanks to you , I don't see anyway my doctor wouldn't provide the note he's been incredibly supportive and frankly I'm just not. I have a tendency to get very very angry so I tend to isolate myself from others at the moment as its certainly for the best.

 

The fact that you've mentioned pip is a relief as I was finding the DLA/PIP differential confusing although as I say I didn't think I'd qualify as it didn't seem to fit my conditions .

 

I live alone

[Beatrice Bee]

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/debt_mortgage_problems_ew/debt_how_to_sort_out_your_mortgage_problems_e/help_with_mortgage_costs_if_you_re_out_of_work.htm

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/379/contents/made

 

Isn't it they can not dismiss you as long as you are on statutory sick pay? There is a time limit for sick pay but I would use it to the maximum limit and then claim ESA.

[Bluemick2011]

People have mentioned DLA, ESA & PIP so can anyone help as to what would be more appropriate.

 

SSP doesn't really apply I'm afraid , I would have happily resigned sometime ago but they wouldn't entertain it . For a verity of reasons it seems there aim is to cause me as much damage as possible , the medical advice (from all available sources ) is the process is causing me serious and possibly irreparable damage but they've simply ignored it.

[Beatrice Bee]

Hopefully DWP won't make it out that you have limited capability for work due to your misconduct because then they can apply a sanction of up to six weeks. It does not apply to sexually transmitted diseases. What is DWP trying to say there..

 

Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2013, Regulation 93: Disqualification for misconduct [attachment screen shot]

 

Not very likely but if this alleged misconduct resulted in an illness, then in your ESA claim and sick note you rely on a different illness if it makes sense. You mentioned more than one illness.

[antone]

Hopefully DWP won't make it out that you have limited capability for work due to your misconduct because then they can apply a sanction of up to six weeks. It does not apply to sexually transmitted diseases. What is DWP trying to say there..

 

Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2013, Regulation 93: Disqualification for misconduct [attachment screen shot]

 

Not very likely but if this alleged misconduct resulted in an illness, then in your ESA claim and sick note you rely on a different illness if it makes sense. You mentioned more than one illness.

 

Beatrice, OP is not (as far as I can tell) asserting that the misconduct resulted in an illness. He is asserting that the illness resulted in misconduct. Not the same thing at all.

[Bluemick2011]

I do see the relevance of your post actually other it's not really applicable the initial PTSD is historic whilst the new PTSD happened from a more recent seriousv assault which caused the head injury whilst depression has come from both the incidents and from the general way I've been treated.

 

 

Beatrice, OP is not (as far as I can tell) asserting that the misconduct resulted in an illness. He is asserting that the illness resulted in misconduct. Not the same thing at all.

 

Yeah sort of the misconduct certainly hasn't caused an illness , hopefully without being too specific you've got the idea.

[antone]

People have mentioned DLA, ESA & PIP so can anyone help as to what would be more appropriate.

 

SSP doesn't really apply I'm afraid , I would have happily resigned sometime ago but they wouldn't entertain it . For a verity of reasons it seems there aim is to cause me as much damage as possible , the medical advice (from all available sources ) is the process is causing me serious and possibly irreparable damage but they've simply ignored it.

 

You can apply for ESA if you are not able to work because you are ill or injured.

 

You can apply for PIP if your condition means that you have care or mobility needs over and above those of a person who doesn't have such a condition. It is possible to receive both benefits at the same time, as they are paid for different reasons.

[Bluemick2011]

You can apply for ESA if you are not able to work because you are ill or injured.

 

You can apply for PIP if your condition means that you have care or mobility needs over and above those of a person who doesn't have such a condition. It is possible to receive both benefits at the same time, as they are paid for different reasons.

 

Brilliant thanks

[Beatrice Bee]

Not the same thing. I just researched if ESA can be sanctioned due to gross misconduct like JSA.

 

To avoid having to pay up, in some cases DWP may want to claim the limited capability for work is the claimant's fault.

Eg refused medical treatment / surgery; his life style / conduct is preventing him from recovering

[listed in regulation 93].

 

It does not apply if the claimant is in hardship. With £2,000 savings and living in own house it is barely hardship so ESA claimants need to know what tricks DWP got up their sleeve to refuse to cough up the money.

 

"I see it in your medical papers that your specialist recommended major surgery. Why haven't you undergone surgery?"

 

Or: "Your life style is causing your illness [stress]. You refusing to change your conduct so your limited capability is your own fault: no ESA for the first 6 weeks of your claim."

 

Of course Atos medicals work so well that no need to do the above? In any case, it is good to know it is not a 26 week initial sanction like with JSA and probably very few cases where the claimant's own misconduct caused his limited capability for work.

 

Eg not wearing a safety helmet at a building site; getting into a fight with a colleague; driver causing accident due to drink driving.

[Bluemick2011]

I do have a hope that once I've escaped from this job I may feel like a lot of the pressure is released so maybe the depression might ease a little and I'll be able to get out there working , it's something I've always done but I'm not lying I worry and it's far from easy at the minute.

 

At least the posters here are really helping so thanks again.

[Beatrice Bee]

Seen it somewhere that HB can not be paid to help with mortgage interest if it is an endowment mortgage [whatever that may be] in which case you are recommended to renegotiate the terms of your mortgage with the lender.

 

So there may be help with mortgage if you are awarded income related ESA. Contribution-based ESA you get if you paid or been awarded with enough class 1 NI credits during the two relevant tax years which will be the tax years ending before your benefit year. Benefit year is 2014. End of 2nd tax year was 5th April 2013.

 

First DWP looks to see if you are eligible for contribution based benefit. If not, they try income-based one. If contribution-based is disallowed it does not mean you are not eligible for income-based so apply for both to begin with.

 

For your nerves it is better to be alone. Is it a two-bed flat that on the long run if needed you could take in a lodger? Rent a room scheme: up to about £2,400 per year you have to pay no tax on rental income [about £80pw rent]. In London landlords manage to put 2 bank beds in a small double and ask £85pw from each person [own experience] so you will be all right.

[honeybee13]

Hello Beatrice B.

 

Seen it somewhere that HB can not be paid to help with mortgageinterest if it is an endowment mortgage [whatever that may be] in which case you are recommended to renegotiate the terms of your mortgage with the lender.

 

There's a lot of information arriving here. I thought housing benefit was towards rent?

 

Fwiw, endowment mortgages were quite common a while back, you should be able to google it.

 

HB

[antone]

Correct Honeybee, Housing Benefit can only help with rent. I think I added to the confusion upthread because I missed the fact that the OP owns his own house.

 

It is possible to get help with mortgage interest if one is on a means tested benefit (and has been for 13 weeks) or if one receives contribution based ESA or JSA and would be entitled to the means tested form if it were not for CB entitlement. I think Beatrice may be correct that mortgage help does not apply to endowment mortgages, but I don't know for sure.

[Beatrice Bee]

Can the site team please remove the disney website link from my post above at #7?

I did not post that link so no idea how it got there. I posted some other link and never visited that disney website so it could not have been me accidentally posting a link to it. What's going on?

[honeybee13]

Can the site team please remove the disney website link from my post above at #7?

I did not post that link so no idea how it got there. I posted some other link and never visited that disney website so it could not have been me accidentally posting a link to it. What's going on?

 

Hello there. It may be a site that we do not wish to link to. I'll remove it.

 

HB

[ims21]

Can the site team please remove the disney website link from my post above at #7?

I did not post that link so no idea how it got there. I posted some other link and never visited that disney website so it could not have been me accidentally posting a link to it. What's going on?

 

The forum software automatically changes to links to unauthorised sites.