David Lloyd Gym Cancellation problems

[Dippyd1]

Hi Sorry can anyone help, I am in the same boat.

 

I used to get free gym mebership with my work, so I naturally took out membership with David Lloyd.

 

That was due to end in December, so Ihad spoken to somene at the club in November to say I would not be renewing my membership, the fact that I had not used the facilities even once should have been obvious, but I thiught just inc ase.

 

They are now constantly hounding me to make payment, it was verbal, and that stage the perosn I spoke to did not tell me I had to do anything in writing.

 

Is there anything I can do, it seems rediculous I have to pay out of my own pocket for something I never used, and will never use.

 

regardsDee

Edited January 28, 2014 by slick132
added paragraphs

[slick132]

Hi DippyD and welcome to CAG

 

I've moved your post into your own new thread for you to use from now on. Also added paragraph spacing so it's easier to read.

 

Are you saying you joined the gym through a company m/ship scheme. If so, who paid for the monthly fees.

 

Are the gym now demanding payments from you personally.

 

Can you recall the approx date and name of the staff member you spoke to about cancelling.

 

Cancelling verbally is acceptable but obviously it would have been better to confirm your intentions in writing, so you have proof that you made your wishes clear.

 

Do you have a m/ship agreement that you signed and have you checked to see what you're supposed to do when you want to end a Corporate m/ship.

 

[Dippyd1]

Hi Slick

 

Thank you so much for replying..

 

I took the memberership out and my company re-imbursed me.

 

I've had like 7 conversations with David Lloyd and can not genuinely remember who the person was that it was a lady.

 

I'm sure I do, but again I cant seem to find it. As I didnt use it I thought they woukd have been expecting me not to renew, and hence I just confirmed verbally.

 

It's such a shame that for service providers they have poor customer service.

 

Regard dippy

Edited January 28, 2014 by slick132
PARAGRAPHS !!

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

I have put spaces in your post above. Please use paragraphs so your posts are easier to read than a solid block of writing.

 

I've had like 7 conversations with David Lloyd

Was this about cancelling. If so, can you remember whether you spoke to reception staff, or others. Unless you can give some sort of detail about how and when you cancelled, DL may deny that you have given them any such notice.

 

Are you satisfied that you paid the last of the 12 months' fees before you cancelled the DD mandate.

 

If so, you need to write to DL by letter or email saying :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

DL gym in [town]

 

I am receiving demands for payments for membership which I cancelled in November last year.

 

You must not send text messages or call me about this. I will deal with this matter in writing only from now on.

 

Cancellation was given verbally in November and the staff member I spoke to said nothing about needing to give notice to head office, or that it had to be in writing. I assumed the staff member would note my records to confirm I would not be renewing.

 

As well as my verbal cancellation, you should have been aware that I had not used the facilities at all. Both of these circumstances can be recognised as intention to cancel according to the ruling by Mr Justice Kitchin in the case of The OFT v Ashbourne Mgt Services Ltd in 2011.

 

Accordingly, I now require that you make no further demands and accept that this membership ended in December 2013.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Dippyd1]

Silk

 

Thank you so much for the advice, I will be sure to do exactly as recommended.

 

I will keep you posted as to their response.

 

Thank you once again, fingers crossed.

 

Regards

Deval

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

Silk ??

 

In my post above, I asked, "Are you satisfied that you paid the last of the 12 months' fees before you cancelled the DD mandate."

 

Please let us know.

 

Regards,

SLICK

[citizenB]

Mr Mc - I am moving your post to a thread of its own.

 

You can find your new thread using the link below.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?416297-Re-Mr-Mc-David-Lloyd-Gym-Cancellation-problems

[Dippyd1]

Hi Slik

 

Sorry for the the late reply, I paid a full annual membership fee in advance, and reclaimed the allowance from my company as per the company policy.

 

I had stated this quite clearly when I looked int becoming a member.

 

I now however have ARC a debt recovery agency asking for payment in 10 days or they will take me to court (CCJ's).

 

I worried and really upset that David Lloyds have done this. I sent them the letter you suggested twice. Once hand delivery in January and the second in the first week of April mailed to their main head office.

 

Please help, what should I do?

 

They're asking for around £400+.

 

Regards

Dippy

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

Did DL reply at all to your letter in post #4 above.

 

What dates did you take/send the letters to DL's gym and their head office.

 

Don't worry about ARC. We'll deal with them when you give me the dates.

 

[Dippyd1]

Hi Slik

 

The first letter I hand delivered to the Sudbury Hill gym reception, on a Saturday morning 1st February.

 

The second letter was mailed from my new workplace on the 26th of March. I got now acknowledgements for my letters from DL, but calls stopped after the first letter was given, I assumed all was resolved until I got a letter from ARC in March.

 

Regards

Dippyd

[slick132]

Letter to ARC :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your letter of xxdate.

 

This matter is in clear dispute with the gym who have failed to respond to my letters.

 

Accordingly, you have no right to make demands of me, or to threaten court action, etc.

 

Any further contact from you will be referred to The OFT as a formal complaint without further warning.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

You need not write to DL. If they chose to ignore your letters, that's their prerogative but you don't need to make any further efforts with them for now.

 

[Dippyd1]

Hi Slik

 

Thank you so much for the below, I will get the letter out first thing tomorrow.

 

Should I send this via recorded delivery?

 

Regards

Dee

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

As The OFT is now redundant, change the final para to :-

 

Any further contact from you will be referred to Trading Standards as a formal complaint without further warning.

 

If you want Proof of Posting, get a free Certificate of Posting from the PO when you send the letter.

 

;-)

[Dippyd1]

Hi SlikSorry I didn't get a chance to update the letter to say Trading Standards and not OFT, however they have sent the below; how should I respond?

 

ARC (Europe) Ltd Reference: xxxxxxx

 

Re: David Lloyd Leisure Balance: £412.00

 

Dear Mrs XXXXX,

 

Thank you for your email. Please note that ARC (Europe) Ltd is a debt collection agent, acting in good faith on the instructions received from a disclosed principal, namely David Lloyd Leisure. We are therefore authorised to contact you in connection with the above matter, and to instruct Solicitors in contemplation of Court Proceedings where we consider it appropriate to do so.

 

We have acted in accordance with our client’s instructions and within current collection legislation and guidance. We reserve the right to produce our correspondence to any Tribunal, regulatory body or investigating authority to prove our compliance and good conduct in this matter.

 

We are instructed that the above balance is owed because you did not cancel your membership in accordance with the Terms and Conditions as you did not provide any written notice of cancellation. Our client has confirmed that they have no record of receiving a dispute from you.

 

Please send us full details of your dispute in order for us to refer this to our client for further instructions.

 

Whilst we note your intention to issue a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading, you should be aware that the Office of Fair Trading is no longer operational. You may want to seek independent advice in this regard. We remain instructed that the above balance is owed and must be paid.

 

You can make a secure payment to ARC 24 hours a day with your debit or credit card by visiting our web site or by calling our automated payment hotline on 0845 0268889. Alternatively you can telephone us to make a payment by debit or credit card.

 

Please use our bank details below if you wish to issue payment by bank transfer: Sort Code xxxxx (Barclays) Account No xxxxx Reference xxxxx

 

If we do not receive your payment, or the full details of your dispute in writing, within the next 14 days, this account will be passed back to our Legal Department for further action.

Edited April 24, 2014 by citizenB
Add spacing and removed private information

[Dippyd1]

Sorry tried spacing the above , but kept going back to block

[citizenB]

Sorry tried spacing the above , but kept going back to block

 

Probably because I was editing it at the same time

 

I have also removed references and bank account details

 

Slick will be along soon..

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

I'd respond as follows :-

 

I refer to your letter of xxdate.

 

A letter confirming the dispute was handed in at the DL gym on xxdate and a copy of this letter was sent to the DL's Head Office on xxdate.

 

I have no intention of disclosing the nature of the dispute to ARC, for you to then "...... refer this to our client for further instructions". If you want to know the details, contact DL.

 

Continue with collection activity if you wish. I reserve the right to ignore it, or to refer it to Trading Standards as a formal complaint.

 

[Dippyd1]

Hi Slik

 

More problems, they've coem back with the below.I'm really worried that this will negatively imoact my credit report, how should I repsond?I'm leaving to go on holiday for the next 5 weeks, what can happen in my absence?

 

ARC Reference: xxxxxxxx

 

RE: David Lloyd Leisure Balance: £412.00

 

Thank you for email. Please note that ARC (Europe) Ltd is a debt collection “agent”, acting in good faith on the instructions received from a “disclosed” principal, namely David Lloyd Leisure. We are therefore authorised to write to you in connection with the above matter and to instruct Solicitors in contemplation of Court Proceedings where we consider it appropriate to do so.

 

We have acted in accordance with our client’s instructions and within current collection legislation and guidance. We reserve the right to produce our correspondence to any Tribunal, regulatory body or investigating authority to prove our compliance and good conduct in this matter.

 

We referred your comments to our client and they have confirmed a member of their staff spoke to you on 29th March 2014 confirming their position in this matter. We are instructed that the above balance remains outstanding and must be paid as you did not cancel your membership in accordance with the agreed Terms and Conditions. You are required to provide three month’s notice to cancel as per the Terms and Conditions.

 

Our client also confirmed they sent you a letter prior to the initial term ending reminding you of your renewal and they have no record of your notice to cancel the membership. The balance on this account represents one month notice (£85.50), three month’s notice (£85.50 per month),plus an administration fee due to non payment (£70.00).

 

Please provide proof of cancellation in order for us to refer the matter back to our client for further instructions, i.e. a receipt from the Royal Mail confirming delivery of your notice to cancel or a letter/receipt from our client acknowledging your notice to cancel.

 

You can make a secure payment to ARC 24 hours a day with your debit or credit card by visiting our web site xxxxx hotline on 0845 0268889. Alternatively you can telephone us on XXXXXXXX to make a payment by debit or credit card or you can use the following bank details to make payment:- XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

If we do not receive your proof or payment within the next 14 days, this account will be passed to our solicitors Major & Co for further action. Please be advised that emails replied to this address will not be answered. All emails must be sent to

 

Yours sincerely, Mrs Halligan LLB (Hons) Compliance Executive ARC (Europe) Ltd Kent House Churchfield Road Walton-on-Thames Surrey KT12 2TU

Edited May 27, 2014 by slick132
Entered spacing !!

[slick132]

Spacing added to above post enabling us to read it !!

 

Please use paragraphs as it is very hard to read a big fat block of text.

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

It is highly unlikely that this will impact on your CRA files as gyms do not report to CRA's these days.

 

I'll drop by later to respond fully and you should be able to go on hols happily and not worry about this matter.

 

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

Can you refer to your m/ship agreement and tell me how exactly it is described, in relation to it's length, eg :-

 

12 month m/ship.

12 month minimum/ship, then rolling monthly m/ship.

Etc.

 

This may be helpful in providing other ways of fighting against their demands.

 

ARC's threat of court action and passing the matter to Major & Co is nothing to fear. This happens in many similar cases and ARC have not taken court action. Major & Co simply write a letter intended to scare you into paying. They will back off quickly when told to.

 

Letter to ARC :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your letter of xxdate.

 

David Lloyd Gym have still not responded to the letter I sent to them back at the end of January 2014, hence my reticence to discuss the matter in detail with you. However, I shall make the following points for the record.

 

My membership expired in December 2013 and I gave the gym verbal notice in person in November that I was not going to renew.

 

If you are saying that notice had to be in writing, then I suggest you are wrong. You are also wrong to assume that my cancellation needs to be verified with Royal Mail proof of postage/delivery.

 

A requirement that I give 3 months notice to cancel, combined with the gym's assumption that the membership was to be renewed in the absence of 3 months notice, is unfair to me as a consumer. Protection for consumers is provided by both CPUTR 2008 and UTCCR. Further very clear guidance and legal precedent was set in the High Court by Mr Justice Kitchin in the case of the OFT v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd in 2011.

 

Until I receive a substantive response from DL Gym to my letter sent earlier this year, I will not communicate further with you.

 

Please also note that I will be away between the dates of xx/xx/xx and xx/xx/xx. Accordingly I will be unable to deal with any mail from DL Gym, ARC or Major & Co if you decide to involve the latter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[Dippyd1]

Thank you so much Slik for the below.I'll send it straight away.I send via emails now with the letter attached and inthe body of the email. SO they can't argue receiving information, timing etc.I'm afraid I dont have the DL mebership details, didn't relaise I'd have these issues.Thank you once again. I'll keep you posted re what they say.RegardsDeval

[Dippyd1]

Hi Slick

 

I'm back from holiday and have had 3 correspondences re David Lloyd, one was an mail while I was on holiday fro ARC, another a letter with my contract copy, and now a letter from their solicitors.

 

I rearly don't agree on giving them anything on principle.. how do I resolve this for good?

 

1st contact email below, 2 recent docs attached.

 

Dear Mrs Parekh,

 

 

 

ARC Reference: XXXXXXXX

 

RE: David Lloyd Leisure

 

Balance Outstanding: £412.00

 

 

 

Thank you for your email.

 

 

 

We previously referred your comments back to our client regarding the letter you sent to them in January 2014, sent again in March 2014. They have confirmed that they explained their final position on the matter with you on 29 March 2014 when a member of staff discussed the matter with you over the phone.

 

 

 

As we advised in our previous email, you are required to give three full calendar months’ notice in writing, in order to cancel your membership. Whilst we note your comments that you feel the Terms and Conditions to which you agreed are unfair, the contractual Terms and Conditions on which the debt is claimed, are those which have been approved by the OFT and have been awarded the Crystal Mark by Plain English Campaign.

 

 

 

We note your reference to the Ashbourne Judgment, however please note this was made against independent small Gyms using a 3rd party financial organisation to enforce their memberships. David Lloyd Leisure has no association with any party involved in the Ashbourne case and, while offers services in the same sector, does not accept that any part of the judgement against Ashbourne Finance relates to any business conducted by our client.

 

 

 

We have requested a copy of your contract from our client. Before we can send you a copy of your contract via email we feel it necessary to warn you of the risks involved. Internet email is not a secure means of transmission and there exists the possibility of interception of and interference with the contents of personal emails.

 

 

 

If you are prepared to accept these risks and to confirm that the email address concerned is not shared with anyone else then please reply with the words 'Risk accepted' or similar.

 

 

 

Failure to reply or replying to a reverse or ambiguous effect will prevent us from sending you your contract via email. Note that changing the reply address of this email will also suppress the sending of email by us.

 

 

 

If we do not receive your confirmation within the next 7 days, we will post your contract to the address we hold on file for you.

 

 

 

Please be advised that emails replied to this address will not be answered. All emails must be sent to [email protected].

 

 

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

 

 

Miss Neesom

 

Compliance Administrator

 

 

 

ARC Europe Ltd

 

Kent House

 

Churchfield Road

 

Walton On Thames

 

Surrey

 

KT12 2TU

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

The documents you posted have been hidden as they contained your personal info.

 

I will comment on how to reply later but, in the meantime, do not worry about the continuing threats.

 

[slick132]

Hi Dippy,

 

I would reply to ARC :-

 

I refer to your email of xxdate which arrived while I was away.

 

1. You suggest the case of The OFT v Ashbourne Mgt Services Ltd does not apply to DL gym agreements and that is, of course, your prerogative. However, you are wrong because a case heard at this level in the judicial system does set legal precedent, not only to gym memberships but to other memberships and to service providing agreements as well.

 

2. Notice of cancellation was given to the gym in a manner acceptable according to the AMSL case, both verbally and by action (my failure to use the gym at all).

 

3. I therefore maintain that I owe nothing further to David Lloyd and I will contest any further demands and/or court action.

 

I would also reply to Major and Co as follows :-

 

I refer to your letter of 11th July.

 

I have made clear representations to David Lloyd gym supporting my contention that I owe them nothing further at all. Notice was given in manners acceptable, according to the High Court case of The OFT v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd in 2011.

 

Any demands and/or court claim will be defended vigorously using the precedents set in the AMSL case and I trust you will desist from making further demands.

 

I enclose a copy of my latest email to the gym's deb collector ARC.

 

Any further demand from you will be included in my formal complaint to Trading Standards.

 

Send them a copy of the email to ARC and let us know if anyone contacts you further.