Mortgage Arrears

[twincity]

Not too certain this is in the correct forum so if it is. Also it's quite a long story, sorry bout that also.

On benefits

- ESA and get mortgage relief (used to be IS) since 2001 (Long story - tear to a glass eye ).

 

The house had previously been on the market in '08 but had had no luck in selling it.

 

By the end of 2008 I had amassed arrears of approx £1,000 (according to bank statement received this monthDec 2013),

 

Mid 2009,

I received a letter stating that the bank had applied to the court for Warrant of Eviction.

One was granted (by this time the house felt like a millstone round my neck and so I took no action and was fully prepared to let the bank have it ).

 

I received a Notice of Eviction at the end of June, stating I would be evicted mid July and set about finding somewhere else to live.

I made no representations to the court, as I said, I was fully prepared to leave my home.

 

The bank did however know that I was trying to sell the house but what with the financial upheaval it proved impossible.

I approached one of the buy-rent back business, but had no luck as my now ex-wife refused to sell when they made a low-ball offer.

 

4 days before the eviction date I received a copy of a letter sent to the court from the banks solicitors stating that the eviction was to be cancelled.

The bank never made any further representations to me about clearing the arrears, and I didn't ask.

 

As we all know financial meltdown ensued, and benefits/services were cut by the government.

I had received letters stating that there was a shortfall, but ignored them ( I know - big mistake)

 

Mid February 2010,

I received a letter stating that there was a shortfall in my monthly repayments,

so I didnt ignore it and spoke to the bank about arranging a Direct Debit to repay the shortfall,

it turns out that the figures quoted as being the shortfall were incorrect and a lower figure was agreed.

The shortfall was just under £14 pcm,

 

I then set up a D/D for £15.00 pcm to allow me to repay the monthly shortfall and repay some of the arrears (there was no mention of how much arrears were).

 

I assumed the bank were happy to continue with this as they had agreed.

The first payment date came and bank failed to take the agreed amount but instead took the whole amount of the mortgage payment,

leaving me with no money over the Easter bank holiday.

 

obviously I got on to the bank and asked for a response as to why this happened - no explanation was given.

 

January '11

again received a letter regarding the shortfall,

this time it was over £65 pcm,

I didnt ignore it but continued to pay £15.00 D/D pcm and £70 pcm in cash "over the counter".

 

Between May '11 and Jully '11

- 4 attempts were made to take the wrong amount.

Again bank gave no explanation as to why this was happening,

nor did anyone from the bank tell me that I still had increased the amount of arrears on my mortgage despite me writing letter after letter to them.

 

Aug '11

- again another letter re: mortgage monthly shortfall, slightly lower than before but continued to make the D/D and the over the counter payments (£15 D/D and £70 cash)

 

I had also been receiving letters from DWP about the amounts of housing benefit and how it was being reduced.

 

in Sept '11 I was making a £15.00 D/D payment and had increased the over the counter payments to £95 pcm.

This continued with letters back and forth, me

- demanding answers and my money back,

them - fobbing me off with no explanations.

 

Again at no time did any bank employee inform me of the arrears situation.

 

Jan '12 Still making payment and still paying over the counter, by this time I had "worked out" what my shortfall was and began to pay £70 pcm.

 

April '12 another letter informing me of the shortfall again a slightly lower amount than before,

I again paid £15.00 pcm via D/D (when they could get it right) and £60 pcm cash

 

May '12 another letter informing me of the shortfall this time less than £50 pcm, so I still made D/D payments and £50 pcm cash

 

Aug '12 bank makes 2 attempts to take the wrong amount and so, sick to the back teeth,

I cancelled the D/D and began to make all repayments in cash in person at the closest branch.

 

Oct '12

letters from the bank failing to provide adequate explanation as to why, in my words, they were stealing from me.

Again no mention of arrears.

Also received letter from DWP stating payments were going to increase, and I could therefore reduce my cash payments,

whilst still remaining to repay the monthly mortgage amount and some off the arrears, which I had been doing all along.

 

Jan '13 bank takes the full amount from my bank account, despite being previously told that I had cancelled the D/D,

again letters back and forth, again no mention of arrears.

 

May '13

again bank takes full monthly amount, despite being previously told that I had cancelled the D/D..

It wasn't until I decided to ring them and after waiting for the bank to re-open following a Bank Holiday (yep the irony wasn't wasted on me either).

 

During the conversation I was finally told of the arrears,

I told him that it was "impossible and just give me back the money you stole".

 

He promised to return the funds by close of business that day, he didn't.

The following day I was back on the phone and was again told that my mortgage account was in arrears,

I again said that was impossible as I had been maintaining repayments and demanded he send me an account summary so I could see for myself,

he said he would but it would take 2 weeks to get to me.

No such letter arrived,

 

I assumed I was right and the "idiots" at the bank were wrong,

and continued to make monthly over the counter payments of £25 pcm (which I had been doing since Nov' 12)

 

Now we get to the reason for all this preamble

 

Oct '13

I received a letter from the bank stating "the bank holds a possession order" in respect of my home

and since I "have failed to maintain payments required under the order.

The bank is now actively considering whether to enforce and instruct its solicitors to issue a warrant for possession"

and to contact the bank within the next 7 Days.

 

That letter was dated 24 Oct, it wasn't delivered until 31 Oct, (7 days from Birmingham?)

 

I then fired off an extremely tersely worded letter pointing out that the letter had only just arrived and laid out my grievances,

and again requested they send a statement of my account,.

 

Nov '13

letter from banks solicitors confirming

"that possession proceedings have commenced"

and finally included a mortgage statement showing the arrears,

and in conjunction with my receipts and a statement from the DWP detailing their payments apparently they were correct, I owe them.

 

Have now received notification that I am to be in court 31-12 13.

 

1st November 2008 I was £1032.47 in arrears,

2 November 2013 I was £1210.98 in arrears,

 

in real terms my arrears rose by £178.51 in 5 years.

 

Please remember this only came about due to their incompetence.

 

They also owe me for charges levied to my account, still waiting for it.

 

Does anyone know of a bank that doesn't mind you owing them over £1000 FOR OVER FIVE YEARS

and not tell you about it, or request you pay them their money back?

 

That is until you accuse them of fraud and theft,

then your in court and out on your ear, before you know it.

 

Thanks for reading this far - How can I defend myself in court and still remain in my home?

[Conniff]

Can you afford the mortgage payments 'and' something off the arrears?

 

 

If you can do the above, then it is very important that you turn up at the court. Judges are very reluctant to issue eviction orders if there is a way out.

They will issue a possession order on the understanding that you keep to the arrangement to pay, so don't offer more than you can realistically afford.

 

 

It's not a court with benches etc, you will go into an office where you sit around a table, so it's not intimidating, but it really is important that you attend the court or they will think you can't be bothered and issue the eviction.

[dx100uk]

why are you stating they have taken money from you?

 

have you ever sent them an SAR to get ALL the statements etc?

 

and ever looked at getting the PENALTY charges & any MPPI etc' reclaimed?

 

dx

[twincity]

Can you afford the mortgage payments 'and' something off the arrears?

 

 

If you can do the above, then it is very important that you turn up at the court. Judges are very reluctant to issue eviction orders if there is a way out.

They will issue a possession order on the understanding that you keep to the arrangement to pay, so don't offer more than you can realistically afford.

 

 

It's not a court with benches etc, you will go into an office where you sit around a table, so it's not intimidating, but it really is important that you attend the court or they will think you can't be bothered and issue the eviction.

 

I should point out that my account has been dealt with by CMS Telford since approx 2003.

 

Aren't they supposed to assist people in financial difficulty repay the money owed?

 

It is also bank policy not to inform a home-owner if the repayment shortfalls are less than £50 pcm, they just monitor it, or in other words, they sit back watch you run up more debts in full knowledge that they can "pull the plug" at any time, as they are doing now. How is that helping me?

 

It's a shame I can't take them to court for willful neglect as I believe you can do with healthcare personnel.

 

I genuinely believed that I was repaying some off the arrears however as I said b4, whenever the bank gave me shortfall figures they were always incorrect, so when they did tell me the shortfall I added few extra £'s and rounded up to cover differences between quoted figures and the actual amount.

 

I was always led to believe that if you are quoted a weekly amount you multiply it by 4.33 to get a monthly figure. I'm wrong, when DWP quote a weekly figure and you want to convert to monthly, you have to multiply it by 4.00. Which is why my arrears only increased by £180 over 5 years, due to the above way of working it out. So, to the court I have been failing to pay, but only because no-one told me 2 pay more, ignorance is no defense.

 

There was no agreement over the arrears as they stated "I have failed to maintain payments required under the order." They never told me about this, so I assumed all was well.

 

At no point since this began has anyone from the bank contacted me regarding a re-payment schedule.

 

So as I see it, the bank has manufactured a situation, in full knowledge that I am on benefits, and will be unable to repay a lump sum (£1000) whenever they decide to ask for it. How is that legal?

[twincity]

why are you stating they have taken money from you?

 

have you ever sent them an SAR to get ALL the statements etc?

 

and ever looked at getting the PENALTY charges & any MPPI etc' reclaimed?

 

dx

 

They were supposed to take only £15.00 every month, on several occasions they took the full monthly amount as well as the DWP payments. With regard to SAR etc., no I haven't asked.

[dx100uk]

pers i'd gather as much info first as possible

then hit them.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

who are/is CMS telford? please

 

dx

[dx100uk]

They were supposed to take only £15.00 every month, on several occasions they took the full monthly amount as well as the DWP payments. With regard to SAR etc., no I haven't asked.

 

are you saying, that without notifying YOU in WRITING each time, they took sums more than what the DD was set up for?

dx

[twincity]

who are/is CMS telford? please

 

dx

 

Credit Management Services based in Telford, its where they send your account if your in financial difficulty

[twincity]

are you saying, that without notifying YOU in WRITING each time, they took sums more than what the DD was set up for?

dx

 

Yep, more than 8X the amount I agreed, they have also failed to honour the Direct Debit mandate, return cash etc when it's their mistake. Which is why I pay cash over the counter, because they can't even manage a £15 per calender month Direct Debit

[dx100uk]

sorry is this an internal lot to do with your mortgage providers

 

or a collection agency?

 

dx

[twincity]

sorry is this an internal lot to do with your mortgage providers

 

or a collection agency?

 

dx

 

Unsure, but they do send letters on RBS headed paper so am assuming all part of same group

[dx100uk]

Yep, more than 8X the amount I agreed, they have also failed to honour the Direct Debit mandate, return cash etc when it's their mistake. Which is why I pay cash over the counter, because they can't even manage a £15 per calender month Direct Debit

 

 

so mortgage & bank account are with the same lender RBS?

 

if they did not write to you FIRST

then get those back under the DD guarantee.

 

dx

[twincity]

so mortgage & bank account are with the same lender RBS?

 

if they did not write to you FIRST

then get those back under the DD guarantee.

 

dx

 

Mortgage with RBS

Direct debit with Nationwide to £15 pcm to go into my RBS mortgage account, when I informed Nationwide of the situation they told me it wasn't an issue for them but RBS. Even though I said that they were allowing RBS access to my account with no agreement in place

 

I have tried to but they drag their heels. The bigger issue regarding the D/D is that I have cancelled it and they still took money without Direct Debit in place. Which is why I accused them of theft and fraud.

[dx100uk]

then you need to make a formal complaint urgently.

 

dx

[twincity]

Because RBS were taking more than they should, I was going overdrawn and Nationwide were charging me fees (unauth overdraft fees etc), quite happy to tell me I can get them back off RBS, but the point for me is that I shouldn't have to

.

RBS have no agreement in place to access my account, which is why I pay the mortgage shortfall in cash at a branch.

 

RBS - FINANCIAL MIS-MANAGEMENT

 

I am no legal expert, but this cannot be legal, the main issue is that they were aware of a financial situation (£1k arrears since October 2008) and provided no assistance or advice etc . My main complaint is that they allowed me to carry on without making me aware of the real situation.

 

Who do I complain to?

[dx100uk]

did you use the DD guarantee to Nationwide?

 

dx

[twincity]

did you use the DD guarantee to Nationwide?

 

dx

 

I'm not 100% sure what u mean .....

[dx100uk]

hold on DD and read

 

dx

[twincity]

hold on DD and read

 

dx

 

OK now I follow, yes I contacted them about their charges etc. Tried to pass the buck to RBS. Will get their e-mails to clarify what was said ........will get back 2 u later on......

 

thanks for the help so far

[twincity]

extracts of e-mails received from Nationwide;

 

I am sorry to learn of the problems you've encountered

 

but confirm as the direct debit with RBOFS-MC is an agreement between them and yourself,

we have not control over the amount they request.

 

A direct debit is where you authorise a company to take payments directly from your account.

 

We do not send payments, nor do we hold any information regarding the payments.

 

Direct debits are an agreement/arrangement between yourself and claimant company.

 

With regard to the direct debit to RBS

 

I note the payment has now been cancelled, effective from 3 January 2013.

 

Please note we do not hold details regarding direct debits; they are controlled by the company claiming the payments.

I trust the direct debit will not be incorrectly set up again by RBS,

however if this is the case you will need to contact RBS to ensure that they cancel your original agreement with them.

 

In a Direct Debit arrangement you have given your authority to an organisation (the originator) to claim regular payments from your account.

The payment amounts and dates can vary, however you must be given advance notice by the originator before any changes are made.

 

Hope this is useful, I now need to complete my submissions to the court.

 

Any help gratefully received.

[dx100uk]

however you must be given advance notice by the originator before any changes are made.

 

 

did this happen?

 

dx

[twincity]

however you must be given advance notice by the originator before any changes are made.

 

 

did this happen?

 

dx

 

Nope! RBS's July 2011 reply was ; " With regards the Direct Debit, due to system problems blah blah blah send proof of charges"

 

August 2011; "Unfortunately we are unable to explain in any further detail why a direct debit was claimed"

 

October 2012; "The actions I have taken from this is that I have sent an e-mail to our support team" I'd already cancelled the D/D by this stage

[dx100uk]

then the dd guarantee must be invoked

 

dx

[twincity]

I tried that but no joy from either bank, and am still waiting for RBS to refund charges caused by them stealing from me and they still haven't paid up, instead their taking me to court for arrears I had no knowledge of. Again any help with court appreciated