SIP Parking Issued Court Papers - Help **Discontinued**

[hushpuppy]

Hi,

 

 

I had a pcn from SIP parking in Manchester,

 

 

It was not actually my fine but I decided to ignore it as given the circumstances

I didn't think it would go so far, but

 

 

today I received court papers from Northhamton.

 

The person driving first went into a SIP car park

got a ticket timed at 19.04

he was going to the cinema which is about a ten min walk,

 

 

the movie had started (due to messing about trying to get change for the car park) so

they looked for something else but then decided to go else-where

going back to the car,

they went to another location which would have taken appox 18 mins driving time, plus time taken for driving round and looking for a parking place.

 

 

They parked in another SIP car park leaving the ticket on display from the first car park

(which was still valid) there was only ten mins to go anyway before a ticket wouldn't be needed at 20.00.

when they got back to the car there was a pcn on the car.

 

It says the time first seen was 19.41 which is cutting it fine,

the time issued is 19.53.

that's why I didn't think they would bother 7 mins to go.

how wrong I was.

 

Can anyone tell me how to go about defending this one?

[hushpuppy]

Forgot to say on pcn it says INVALID TICKET DISPLAYED and

 

 

the court papers say

 

 

THERE WAS NO TICKET DISPLAYED.

 

 

it also says evidence consists of photographs,

 

 

can I not ask to see these,

 

 

be interested in time.

[hushpuppy]

Hi can anyone help or point me in the right direction, for writing my defence, and do I have to send this the same time as I send in acknowledgement of service.

[esmerobbo]

OK without identifying yourself.

 

Was this incident after 1st October 2012?

 

Was this an ANPR issue or was it a ticket on screen?

 

If ANPR did the notice to keeper arrive with 15 days of the incident or 56 days if it was a ticket on screen?

 

SIP have just dropped a court case because they did not follow the necessary criteria.

[hushpuppy]

Thanks for reply, it was a ticket on screen and the notice to owner arrived 85 days later,and they have stated date on POC.

[ericsbrother]

To reiterate the above, we need to see the time line for all of the correspondence. Was the original ticket stuck on the car? When did you receive any communication through the post and how did it address you, as the driver or registered keeper? Were you invited to name the driver? What other communicationd have you received before the court claim? the dates are important for these items as their claim is invalid of they have got it wrong.

After that we can look at the merits of their claim and their evidence to support that claim. For example do they say that the claim is for breach of contract and if so which particular contract have you breached and how? plenty to hit back with but need to get all the information gathered before you respond.

[ericsbrother]

oops.a bit slow on the send but if you can answer the other points it will help. If you received no other correspondence then the company cannot use the PoFA to chase you as RK of the vehicle, they may only sue the driver and they need to identify the driver for themselves as they are timed out. I would still gather all the other info and hit them back hard and possibly claim vexatious litigation as it has no chance of succeeding or no merit and it designed to harass or subdue you into paying up when you have no cause to. Unfortunately it needs a second case to go for the jugular and have them barred from using civil procedure so you might get lucky when you revisit the car parks to gather you photographs of the signs and machines/layout.

[hushpuppy]

All correspondence was addressed to me, There was notice to owner after 85 days it did say

 

We understand that you were the registered keeper or hirer of the vehicle at the time of the following contravention occurred. You are therefore notified under para 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. As we do not know the drivers details, if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and currant postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them. If you do not provide these details within 28 days or provide an incorrect address for service, we will pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains unpaid.

 

30 days after this I received a final notice 1 day later another one

14 days after this I received legal action immenent

 

court papers dated 27th Nov

 

They have stated I parked in contravention of our terms and conditions on the basis that there was no ticket displayed.

 

There was a ticket displayed but it was for another of their car parks

[Scouse Magic]

As well as the above !!!! I would imagine it would have been dark at the time.....I doubt very much they will have a close up photograph of the dashboard in their evidence bundle that clearly shows either an invalid or no pay and display.....Thats enough to strike that one out if they havent

[hushpuppy]

I have a photo of the sign, the lower sign is all about how to pay, the information part is way high, I can only see some wording because of enlarging, on the back of the ticket that was displayed it says not transferable, on the sign it says not transferable between vehicles doesn't say not transferable between car parks as far as I can see.

[hushpuppy]

going to try and insert photo so you can see how high it is..[ATTACH=CONFIG]47976[/ATTACH]

[esmerobbo]

They have timed out, now usually the BPA are useless but in this case I would email Steve Clark at the BPA SIP have been doing this a lot and have been told to stop by the BPA. [email protected]

 

The case I mentioned above was stopped for the same reason, they have no course of action against the keeper.

 

I would also complain to the DVLA as they are abusing POFA. [email protected] This is normally a waste of time but SIP have history for this.

 

Also is the claim signed by Natasha Sarwar as it also seems whoever that is is over stepping their authority ie: not a solicitor.

 

In the meantime acknowledge the claim and say you intend to defend in full.

Edited December 1, 2013 by esmerobbo

[hushpuppy]

I will e-mail today, with the DVLA am I complaining about them giving my details? and it is signed by Natasha Sarwar. I don't have to put my defence in yet do I.

[esmerobbo]

No complain to the DVLA about them writing stating that they are pursuing you under POFA yet they did not meet the deadlines to issue a NTK. They can still request your details at any time but now they cannot use POFA keeper liability.

 

At this point you just need to state you intend to defend all of the claim.

[ericsbrother]

As the driver bought a ticket they paid the prescribed fee. SIP have not lost any money due to the action of the driver so any other claim is"de minimis" at best and vexatious at worse. They still have no claim against the RK of the vehicle and have to prove who the driver was at the time.

I would be tempted to counterclaim using the defence response form for defendant's litigant in person research costs of say 2 hours at £18 per hour. This will then mean that SIP will not be able to withdraw their claim without it costing them. This means that you will have to submit a bare bones defence at the time which will be basically what you have told us here. Claim against RK timed out for PoFA, SIP failed to use COP of BPA so not entitled to resort the civil procedures without exhausting the BPA code. Claim should be against driver, no liability on your part and therefore claim is an attempt to coerce you into paying someone else's supposed debts. No breach of contract anyway as the prescribed fee was paid and ticket displayed. (no need to mention the bit about transferring from 1 location, save that for full defence if you have to submit one).

Later on you can go into the detail of signage, meaning of words, wording of claim being at odds with that on screen ticket no breach of contract etc but I doubt if you have to go that far as it is likely that SIP wont pay the allocation fee when you submit your acknowledgement and hope that you forget about them.

[hushpuppy]

sent in complaint to DVLA and BPA. just have to respond to court claim I'll take your advice and put in a bare bones defence, just beginning to understand the parking system. Thank you so much for all the help

[ericsbrother]

make sure you head it as such so SIP know they are going to be given a tough time when they have to make available all of their evidence.

I would put money on them not paying the allocation fee as said before so keep an eye on the clock and apply to court to have the case struck out for abuse of process as soon as they are a day late paying the fee.

[hushpuppy]

I have had a response from DVLA they have said they cannot assist unless I provide evidence that SIP parking are pursuing under POFA outside the permitted timescale, I'm not sure what evidence they require??? BPA have also replied they require a copy of NTK and parking charge notice which I will forward tonight.

Havn't sent in court claim form yet been looking on her of suitable way to word defence. What time line do they have for paying allocation fee?

[esmerobbo]

Your evidence is that they issued a NTK 85 days after the ticket was placed on the screen.

 

A Notice to Keeper can be served by ordinary post and the Protection of Freedoms Act requires that the Notice, to be valid, must be delivered either

 

(Where a notice to driver (parking ticket) has been served) Not earlier than 28 days after, nor more than 56 days after, the service of that notice to driver.

[hushpuppy]

ok, thanks I thought it was as that was what BPA wanted, but the way they worded it. it makes you doubt yourself,' why can't DVLA just ask for what they want like BPA.

[ericsbrother]

SIP will be told to pay the allocation fee after you have responded to the claim. You have 14 days to get the paperwork back to the issuing court from the day it dropped on your mat. Part of the form you return it asks what court you wan the case to be heard in and you leave that blank if it is just your local court.

For the moment you can just return the form having ticked the box saying you are denying/defending in full and make the bullet points and add that a full defence will be submitted once the court allocation is made that gives you more time to submit a full defence.

This may well stop SIP in their tracks so then keep an eye on the clock and when their time to pay up the allocation fee has passed write to the court and ask that the claim be struck out.

[hushpuppy]

Sent evidence in to BPA and DVLA so see what happens, just got to send in the claim and defence.

[hushpuppy]

Going to put this in as my bare bones defence.

 

 

Sch.4. POFA (specifically para. 8(5) requires that to be able to make use of keepers Liability provisions, a notice to the keeper must be delivered within 56 days of the PCN. Sip Parking failed to do this by taking 85 days, which they themselves confirm in their POC.

 

 

A valid parking ticket was displayed on the dashboard and was not in contravention of their terms and conditions.

 

 

is this sufficient to put on claim to send in?

[hushpuppy]

I have sent in my claim form with my defence on line, just elaborated what I put above, not sure there would be much more to put on a full defence. How long do SIP have before they have to pay the allocation fee? don't want to fail now by missing dates.

[ericsbrother]

As you have done it online you can follow the progress online as well. There will be a bar from certain actions taking place before time so you will know when it is too late as you will be able to apply for a strike out where you cannot at the moment.

The wording is fine, anything else you need is merely proving those points and adding a bit about SIP's lack of rights to claim if you can show that is the case (demand contract showing they may claim in their own name if they do pay up and go for it)