Roofer did shoddy work and has now filed court claim against me

[f16]

That is why I asked about plasterboard.

On a "Vaulted ceiling" I would only use "foil backed" (Vapour barrier).

 

Did the "Alteration to plan" occur before or after you contracted the roofer ?

Was he aware before he started ?

If so he should have advised you of various "Improvements" that should made to the original materials list.

With regards to the Building Inspector.

Yes I agree with you. You should have been advised that you can have a vaulted ceiling but you will need to do XYZ not ABC as the existing plan shows.

[f16]

There are so many faults with the roof and the velux installation I have lost count.

 

The only "defense" the roofer could say is that you provided the materials and if certain materials were not there he could not fit them.

If that was me I would have just told you I can't do the job with out them.

[f16]

I think so. I am not exactly sure what the upstand is. Is it the raised bit around the edge of the window where the tiles are supposed to slot into?

 

Yes the "Tile stop".

This forms a "Gutter" around the window to prevent rain spreading under the tiles.

 

So not only has he tiled over the tile stop...... He's beaten the thing flat because he can't get the tile to "sit flat".

The tile wouldn't sit flat because the tile stop was "Kicking" it up.

What he should have done (Prior to getting his "craftsman tool" 4Lb lump hammer out and beating 10 shades of $h1T out of it) was re-cut the tile to meet the tile stop. DOH !!

 

Kinger ... I've just got to ask this.

Were the instructions for fitting the Velux written in Chinese or Hireoglyphics ?

[f16]

Kinger

We've had a REALLY "Good day"..... Unlike your "Dipstick" roofer !!!!! Not that he's aware that he's had a "Bad day"......... Yet !!!!

 

What's the score on "ventilation ?

[Kinger122]

That is why I asked about plasterboard.

On a "Vaulted ceiling" I would only use "foil backed" (Vapour barrier).

 

Did the "Alteration to plan" occur before or after you contracted the roofer ?

Was he aware before he started ?

If so he should have advised you of various "Improvements" that should made to the original materials list.

With regards to the Building Inspector.

Yes I agree with you. You should have been advised that you can have a vaulted ceiling but you will need to do XYZ not ABC as the existing plan shows.

 

Hi F16, the roofer was aware of everything prior. He had regular meeting with myself and the building inspector and his workers read and saw all the plans. So yes he hae no way if claiming he did not know about any of this

[Kinger122]

There are so many faults with the roof and the velux installation I have lost count.

 

The only "defense" the roofer could say is that you provided the materials and if certain materials were not there he could not fit them.

If that was me I would have just told you I can't do the job with out them.

 

he has said and keeps saying he is a professional and he works for the council blah blah blah. He knew what materials I had and he provided the rest. He specifically said he could get the pitch to manufacturers specs as well. So he has no comeback here either

[Kinger122]

Yes the "Tile stop".

This forms a "Gutter" around the window to prevent rain spreading under the tiles.

 

So not only has he tiled over the tile stop...... He's beaten the thing flat because he can't get the tile to "sit flat".

The tile wouldn't sit flat because the tile stop was "Kicking" it up.

What he should have done (Prior to getting his "craftsman tool" 4Lb lump hammer out and beating 10 shades of $h1T out of it) was re-cut the tile to meet the tile stop. DOH !!

 

Kinger ... I've just got to ask this.

Were the instructions for fitting the Velux written in Chinese or Hireoglyphics ?

 

The roofer who provided meba report for the court which the claimant shot down in court for not being an expert said the same thing. that the tiles need to slot down and it looked like they were being lazy and couldn't be bothered to cut the tiles properly so judt forced them into place.

 

Unfortunately for the roofer they were all in plain English. not even the dodgy chinese to English translations you commonly get.

[Kinger122]

Kinger

We've had a REALLY "Good day"..... Unlike your "Dipstick" roofer !!!!! Not that he's aware that he's had a "Bad day"......... Yet !!!!

 

What's the score on "ventilation ?

 

Are you talking about the gap in the insulation at the top? I couldnt get through to the architect today but a different building inspector confimed when I called anonymously that there should be a gap betwen the membrane and the insulation. he could not give me a figure and said he needed to look it up

[f16]

Kinger,

 

The list of ERRORS is endless....... And I do mean "Endless".

 

Having read the fitting instructions for the tiles.

 

1. You can not fit "Tile vents" to a roof pitch under 15 degrees.

So he should have fitted "Verge vents" in the gables (eves)

 

2. No soffit vents.

 

3. Every tile to be fixed with a tile clip.

 

4. Every verge tile to be fixed with a "verge tile clip"

 

5. Minimum over lap of one tile to the next 100mm. You told me you measured 3 and some measured 80mm !!!!!

Measure each course and list them. Start at the gutter and work up.

 

6. Down pipes from higher level roofs should not discharge on to the centurion roof below. REALLY !! I think I saw 2 of those.

 

7. Fixers should note that Forticrete do not recommend the practice of cutting tiles in situ.

 

How is that for the first "Salvo"

[f16]

Are you talking about the gap in the insulation at the top? I couldnt get through to the architect today but a different building inspector confimed when I called anonymously that there should be a gap betwen the membrane and the insulation. he could not give me a figure and said he needed to look it up

 

Need to know what vents the architect was suggesting for the gables or tile vents ?

You could not have "Tile Vents" due to pitch.

So it is going to be gable vents. ..... But you changed the "Design", without informing the architect so he could amend drawings / spec.

 

I know for a fact the "Air break" gap between bottom of tilers sheet and insulation is 50mm.

 

But again that will not show on the "drawings / plan because you changed the spec.

 

The point is any "Roofer" worth his salt should KNOW all of this and do the job according to Building Regs. and Manufactures Instructions.

 

"Roofer"...... Yeah Alright ... More like Jessie James !!

[Kinger122]

I have received the order from the court

 

 

It says the following:

 

 

It is ordered that:

 

 

1. The claimant shall at his expense inspect the velux windows and rectify any aspect of the installation likely to result in water ingress. The claimant is now however required to alter the pitch of the roof. Further, and also at the Claimant's expense the Claimant shall arrange an inspection by the local authority inspector.

 

 

2. In the event the building inspector approves the work:

 

 

a) The claimant shall promptly and at his expense arrange an insurance backed guarantee in relation to all of the work carried out on site.

 

 

b) The defendant shall within 14 days of the guarantee pay the outstanding invoice sum

 

 

c) In the event the building inspector does not approve the work the parties shall promptly notify Judge xxxxxxxx

[Kinger122]

Need to know what vents the architect was suggesting for the gables or tile vents ?

You could not have "Tile Vents" due to pitch.

So it is going to be gable vents. ..... But you changed the "Design", without informing the architect so he could amend drawings / spec.

 

I know for a fact the "Air break" gap between bottom of tilers sheet and insulation is 50mm.

 

But again that will not show on the "drawings / plan because you changed the spec.

 

The point is any "Roofer" worth his salt should KNOW all of this and do the job according to Building Regs. and Manufactures Instructions.

 

"Roofer"...... Yeah Alright ... More like Jessie James !!

 

 

I have been calling the architect and building inspector today and have not been able to get through to either.

 

 

After reading the judgement by the court, it got me thinking, can you get a second opinion from building control? The inspector I have been using so far from the council seems to be completely incompetent.

[Mike_hawk]

Is that a typo in #1? 'The claimant is now however required to alter the pitch of the roof'

 

I think it would be sensible to engage with building control, making it clear the works are now the subject of a court order.

 

f16 may be better placed to offer guidance on the remit of the inspector, I would imagine the local authority will be less interested in the detail and more interested in the works meeting current regs........ not sure that the two will always reconcile

 

Perhaps [when you can tie someone down] have a chat with building control and ask it to attend site, giving its interpretation of the failings you have discussed with f16 and the remedy required to enable it to sign off on the project.

[Kinger122]

Is that a typo in #1? 'The claimant is now however required to alter the pitch of the roof'

 

I think it would be sensible to engage with building control, making it clear the works are now the subject of a court order.

 

f16 may be better placed to offer guidance on the remit of the inspector, I would imagine the local authority will be less interested in the detail and more interested in the works meeting current regs........ not sure that the two will always reconcile

 

Perhaps [when you can tie someone down] have a chat with building control and ask it to attend site, giving its interpretation of the failings you have discussed with f16 and the remedy required to enable it to sign off on the project.

 

 

Hi Mike, yes that is a mistake. It should read "Not"

 

 

All I want is the roof not to leak and to last. F16 seems to be extremely knowledgeable on this issue so hopefully I know all the questions to ask and points to raise.

 

 

What happens then if the inspector refuses to sign the roof off though? Will it just go straight back to a hearing?

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Mike, yes that is a mistake. It should read "Not"

 

 

All I want is the roof not to leak and to last. F16 seems to be extremely knowledgeable on this issue so hopefully I know all the questions to ask and points to raise.

 

 

What happens then if the inspector refuses to sign the roof off though? Will it just go straight back to a hearing?

 

If it doesn't comply with regs and the inspector declines to sign off you could look to either compromise the case or refer to 'c' in the notice........... not entirely sure the latter would be helpful to either party

[f16]

Kinger

 

Am I right in thinking I read a post ages ago that the roofer signed a contract agreeing to fit all materials to manufacturers spec. ?

Did you dig out the invoice with the code for the flashing ?

Are the Veluxes the "New Generation"? Which are the latest spec.

 

Mike_Hawk Is correct that the Building Inspector will not care what the roof "Looks like",

He is only interested in if it is constructed as per the plan.

 

The more "defects or deviations" from the plans we can spot.... The more chance there is that it won't get signed off.

Trust me on this one. I haven't even started yet !!!!

 

Did you take photos as the "Build" progressed ?

What I'm after is internal shots of the exposed roof timbers and the block work.

I want to see if enough "Plate ties" (roof ties) have been used.

This will be a spec. on the architects drawing.

 

I would not phone the Building Inspector or architect. I would use Email or letters.

You "Might" need proof at a later stage.

[Kinger122]

Kinger

 

Am I right in thinking I read a post ages ago that the roofer signed a contract agreeing to fit all materials to manufacturers spec. ?

Did you dig out the invoice with the code for the flashing ?

Are the Veluxes the "New Generation"? Which are the latest spec.

 

Mike_Hawk Is correct that the Building Inspector will not care what the roof "Looks like",

He is only interested in if it is constructed as per the plan.

 

The more "defects or deviations" from the plans we can spot.... The more chance there is that it won't get signed off.

Trust me on this one. I haven't even started yet !!!!

 

Did you take photos as the "Build" progressed ?

What I'm after is internal shots of the exposed roof timbers and the block work.

I want to see if enough "Plate ties" (roof ties) have been used.

This will be a spec. on the architects drawing.

 

I would not phone the Building Inspector or architect. I would use Email or letters.

You "Might" need proof at a later stage.

 

 

Yes the roofer agreed in writing that everything on the roof must be to manufacturer's specifications. I can't understand how the judge can allow this roofer to legally breach his contractual agreement.

 

 

As I purchased these over six months ago I can't find the invoices unfortunately. I know that they were the old model which has been replaced this year with the latest model. These are the links to the new replacements.

 

 

http://www.velux.co.uk/private/service/velux_roof_windows/ggu

 

 

http://www.yarddirect.com/velux-single-flashing#.U02WfE1OXcs

 

 

Unfortunately I did not take any photos while it progressed. I did not even go on the roof. That's why it was comical when the roofer alleged myself and my whole family constantly were on the roof taking pictures and harassing his workers. I do have photos of the timbers from underneath. I can upload them if you think they may be of use, but they do not show very much.

 

 

The building inspector called me and gave me a follow up email which I will post next. I agree with conducting everything via email.

[Kinger122]

The building inspector's email

In reply to the questions raised in your email, I had agreed to accept a valid guarantee from (Company) for the roof covering, flashings and flat decking, all laid at the pitch as set out. However you stated that on testing the roof the windows/window flashings were found to be leaking and the guarantee was therefore void. My understanding is that this leak may have been due to the flashing kits being defective or damaged goods.

 

In order to ensure that the roof and Velux windows with flashing kits can be demonstrated to meet the fundamental requirements of the Building Regulations, and pass for inspection purposes, I would suggest that you have two options. You could, as I have previously advised, contact Velux to make an enquiry about ordering appropriate special flashing kits. The alternative would be to carry out a water test to demonstrate that the roof windows and flashing kits, as installed and as repaired, prevent the ingress of water. This would be in conjunction with the roofer’s guarantee. (Which I understand is now to be backed by verification or an insurance from the National Federation of Roofing Contractors?)

 

I’m not aware of any discussions relating to a guarantee to be provided by Velux, except where their products are fitted according to their requirements.

 

Regarding ventilation of the roof, I believe that your architect’s specification noted the use of soffit vents and an eaves ventilation tray in addition to a breathable membrane. A breathable membrane, correctly fitted, is normally considered to be a satisfactory provision in itself to ensure the adequate ventilation to a monopitch roof, without the additional use of eaves, ridge/abutment or tile vents. However, if you have been advised by your architect to add soffit vents and additional tile vents, or an abutment ventilator, to your roof then this may well aid ventilation to ensure the removal of moisture caused by interstitial condensation, and this would not be discouraged, assuming that these vents were to be fitted as per the manufacturer’s instructions. Please note, that when a roof is covered by an additional membrane which does not allow the roof to breathe, (eg. a bitumen felt, a wooden ply/sterling board or an external single ply membrane) then such additional ventilation provisions would always need to be sought.

 

I trust this is adequate confirmation for your purposes but please do not hesitate to contact me should you need clarification.

 

Thank you,

[f16]

Right.

Fire an Email of to the architect to to clarify the "ventilation" issue. What was stated on the plan is what YOU want. Nothing less.

"Continuous soffit vents". NOT some "Mickey Mouse" thing cut into "Existing" soffit board.

Plus "Gable" vents if that is what he advises in the reply to your Email;

 

Internal shots before the plaster board went up might assist.....

and off the plan "How many roof ties and where ?

 

If you can't find it, include the question in the Email to the architect.

[Kinger122]

Right.

Fire an Email of to the architect to to clarify the "ventilation" issue. What was stated on the plan is what YOU want. Nothing less.

"Continuous soffit vents". NOT some "Mickey Mouse" thing cut into "Existing" soffit board.

Plus "Gable" vents if that is what he advises in the reply to your Email;

 

Internal shots before the plaster board went up might assist.....

and off the plan "How many roof ties and where ?

 

If you can't find it, include the question in the Email to the architect.

 

Thats the thing. The architect's plans dont say anything about number of tiles. Just they must be a low pitch. I feel pretty foolish. It seems like ive been "had" from every angle. The architect was not cheap either.

 

I am assuming the architect left those decisions to the roofer/building control/myself. It would make sense as the architect cannot specify everything right? The roofer must use common sense or experience surely when doing a job?

 

Shall I send this?

 

"Could you please clarify what ventilation requirements there are for my pitched roof at approximately 13 degrees. Must there be the presence of gable, soffit and tile vents for the correct ventilation of the roof?"

[f16]

kinger

God I need to see the plans!!!

 

The roof is so wrong. There is not one aspect that has been done correctly.

 

I'm going to take a lot of "Flack" for this ... Check your PM box.

[ims21]

I'm going to take a lot of "Flack" for this ... Check your PM box.

 

No there won't be flack.

 

I can understand why some of this may need to be kept private and off forum given the legal situation but would ask that you do both keep the thread fully updated and excercise caution as you don't know who each other actually are (if you know what I mean).

[f16]

ims21

 

Thankyou very much !!!!!

 

I can't do this without the plan... It's like driving a car "Blindfolded".

 

I honestly thought my next post to Kinger122 was going to be "Flat spin ..... Coming in"

 

Thankyou F16

 

Thread will be updated at all times.

[Kinger122]

I replied to your PM F16

[f16]

Kinger,

My post #269 "How many plate TIES ?

 

Not TILES. .....But it made me laugh , so thanks :-)