London Borough Bus Lane

[Arty dinmore]

Dear Forum,

 

I have never driven to London before as I live in the countryside and have had no need to visit the 'big smoke'. On 17/11/2013 I decided to go and collect some second hand furniture from a place I had not visited before. After a 4 hour journey I had hit a busy and confusing (sometimes aggressive) traffic system. My Sat Nav which needs upgrading was politely taking me all sorts of directions which at one stage must have been a bus lane because this morning I received a fine for £130.00 or £65.00 if I pay in the next 14 days, with photographic evidence. Do I really have to pay this:???::???:

 

Do London Borough of Hounslow care that I was confused and Sat Nav had told me to turn left at the traffic lights so I took the left lane. In the picture I can see another car behind me, were they also asked to pay a fine?

 

Please can you help. Thank you

 

P.s. It was on Chiswick High road

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi there,

 

Unfortunately I don't think you have much of a Defence on this if the bus lane was in operation at the time.

 

I assume there is an "end of bus lane" sign somewhere before the junction and it may be that you crossed into the left hand lane before you were supposed to.

 

The same will apply to the other car.

 

As this was a Sunday though it might be worth double checking if the bus lane was in force. It depends what the sign says - they either give hours of operation or say "at any time".

[Desperate Daniella]

If you can find it on google earth you may be able to read the bus lane signs.

 

Houslow Council won't be at all sympathetic, I'm afraid.

[citizenkain]

got fined myself there,exact same place few years ago,just pay it and chalk it down to experience,theres a camera at the end there and an operator sitting in an office somewhere making them a fortune at that junction!

[Arty dinmore]

I now have a traffic contravention for entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited. By the picture you can see that the car in front had stopped with room in front of it preventing me from leaving the box :!:

[Desperate Daniella]

Oh that happened to me once. I could have smacked the bloke in front of me. He stopped to wave pedestrians across which meant I got stuck in the junction.

 

You might be able to appeal. You could see that the road ahead was clear and your exit was blocked by the inexplicable decision of the driver in front not to move forward. I don't hold out much hope because they say shouldn't enter unless your exit is clear but if everyone drove around like that we have stop/start at every box junction with just one car going across at a time and how would that help traffic flow?

 

There is a ground for appeal if someone else stops you from exiting the junction. It didn't work for me, but it's worth a try.

 

If you are ever going along the King's Road be very careful around the junction with Wandsworth Bridge Road. The traffic lights timing there means they catch hundreds of people every month. Total moneymaker.

[Desperate Daniella]

Oh that happened to me once. I could have smacked the bloke in front. He stopped to wave pedestrians across leaving me stuck in the junction.

 

You could appeal. They'll say you shouldn't have entered the junction unless your exit was clear, but you could say you could see the road ahead was clear with room for you to cross but you were prevented from doing so by the totally inexplicable decision of the driver in front to stop when he had ample room to move forward.

 

There is a ground of appeal if you are blocked by another driver when you thought you had space to clear the junction so it's worth a try. I don't hold out much hope though.

 

If you are ever on the New Kings Road be very careful around the junction with Wandsworth Bridge Road. The timing of the traffic lights means that hundreds of people get caught in the box junction every month. Total moneymaker.

[Arty dinmore]

My first trip to London was an all round 8 hour journey £60.00 fuel charge and £130.00 council charge I'm never going to London again:!::!:

[Desperate Daniella]

I am so sorry.

 

I can't say I blame you.

[green_and_mean]

Fingers crossed you don't get a parking ticket through the post and get the hat trick!

[king12345]

I would firstly ask them under FOA for the approval certificate of that particular camera.

Hounslow will send you a web link where there will be a camera registered as approved.

This is the trick.

Last time I got fined by a camera I contacted the relevant body issuing the certificates (don't really remember who, I think ministry of transport) and they confirmed that the only approved device in Hounslow, the one on the website pointed out to me, is their control room!

So all cameras on the road in Hounslow were issuing illegal fines at the time.

Maybe they sorted it out, but it's worth a shot.

I got my ticket cancelled and compensation for time wasted attending the adjudication.

They think they're above the law, wrong!

[green_and_mean]

I would firstly ask them under FOA for the approval certificate of that particular camera.

Hounslow will send you a web link where there will be a camera registered as approved.

This is the trick.

Last time I got fined by a camera I contacted the relevant body issuing the certificates (don't really remember who, I think ministry of transport) and they confirmed that the only approved device in Hounslow, the one on the website pointed out to me, is their control room!

So all cameras on the road in Hounslow were issuing illegal fines at the time.

Maybe they sorted it out, but it's worth a shot.

I got my ticket cancelled and compensation for time wasted attending the adjudication.

They think they're above the law, wrong!

 

What certification is required for bus lane cameras or moving traffic???

[Tony P]

Fingers crossed you don't get a parking ticket through the post and get the hat trick!

 

At least he is spared a Congestion Charge Fine (if he ventured that far into London) as it was Sunday.

[king12345]

All CCTV, cameras or speed recording devices used to enforce traffic and parking offences must be approved.

Hounslow and many other councils do not get theirs approved because it probably costs money.

Even if the offence has clearly happened, the evidence from a non approved device are irrelevant.

Us motorists must follow the letter of the law at all times, so should the local authorities.

They are not above the law, even if they think they are.

[green_and_mean]

All CCTV, cameras or speed recording devices used to enforce traffic and parking offences must be approved.

 

The OP however wasn't done for speeding or parking so kindly point out what legislation you base your incorrect information on?

[king12345]

The OP however wasn't done for speeding or parking so kindly point out what legislation you base your incorrect information on?

 

The bus lane (approved devices) order 2005 states:

Approved devices

2. A device is an approved device for the purposes of regulations under section 144 of the Transport Act 2000 (civil penalties for bus lane contraventions) if it is of a type which falls within any of the following descriptions—
(a)subject to article 2, a device which is of a description specified in an order made by the Secretary of State under section 20(9) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988(1) (prescribed devices for the purposes of speeding and other offences); .
(b)a device certified, by a person authorised in that behalf by the Secretary of State, as meeting the criteria specified in paragraphs 2 to 6 of the Schedule to this Order; .
©a device that does not meet the criteria referred to in paragraph (b) but which was used before the coming into force of this Order for the purpose of bus lane enforcement under Part II (bus lanes) of the London Local Authorities Act 1996.

That's how I got my pcn cancelled.
If you don't want people to help the op, just say so and let Hounslow get richer.

[green_and_mean]

 

 

The bus lane (approved devices) order 2005 states:

 

Approved devices

 

2. A device is an approved device for the purposes of regulations under section 144 of the Transport Act 2000 (civil penalties for bus lane contraventions) if it is of a type which falls within any of the following descriptions—

(a)subject to article 2, a device which is of a description specified in an order made by the Secretary of State under section 20(9) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988(1) (prescribed devices for the purposes of speeding and other offences); .

(b)a device certified, by a person authorised in that behalf by the Secretary of State, as meeting the criteria specified in paragraphs 2 to 6 of the Schedule to this Order; .

©a device that does not meet the criteria referred to in paragraph (b) but which was used before the coming into force of this Order for the purpose of bus lane enforcement under Part II (bus lanes) of the London Local Authorities Act 1996.

 

That's how I got my pcn cancelled.

If you don't want people to help the op, just say so and let Hounslow get richer.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the title of this thread is 'London Bus lane' and therefor the correct legislation is the London Local Authorities act 1996. The 1996 Act requires that the equipment be a prescribed device, described in the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (as amended) as:

 

"a camera designed or adapted to record the presence of a vehicle on an area of road which is a bus lane or route for use by buses only" as such no certification is required.

 

Helping people is one thing, quoting totally irrelevant legislation and in the process giving duff advice is another.

[king12345]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the title of this thread is 'London Bus lane' and therefor the correct legislation is the London Local Authorities act 1996. The 1996 Act requires that the equipment be a prescribed device, described in the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (as amended) as:

 

"a camera designed or adapted to record the presence of a vehicle on an area of road which is a bus lane or route for use by buses only" as such no certification is required.

 

Helping people is one thing, quoting totally irrelevant legislation and in the process giving duff advice is another.

 

Pardon me for trying to help.
I got my ticket cancelled quoting that legislation.
I will try to avoid giving advice in future, even though I thought this was the point of this forum.
Excuse me again

[Desperate Daniella]

Please do give advice in future if you feel you may be able to help.

 

I've given advice on the forum which often goes against that given by others with more experience/knowledge and in some cases I have been shouted down. Several people I have supported in their appeals against traffic violations have been told by others there is no hope but the appeals have been won.

 

When my advice has proved to be correct and I've helped someone to achieve a successful result it is always very silent.

 

DDxx

[Tony P]

As with DD, I say don't be disinclined to contribute because of another posters style.

 

Over time we learn to appreciate the depth of knowledge of certain posters in specific areas - and their tolerance of others. But there is always the possibility of error as much as misinterpretation.

 

Be grateful for all contributors who have build up a track record which can be measured in number of posts and green 'stars' (Oops - that means ignore this!!)

[Desperate Daniella]

xx

[green_and_mean]

All CCTV, cameras or speed recording devices used to enforce traffic and parking offences must be approved.

 

The statement above is incorrect and could if used in an appeal cost someone time and money, if you think being corrected is somehow rude that is not really my problem. Everyone makes mistakes, you can either learn from them or go off and sulk and refuse to help anyone again, thats your choice.