massive problem with benefits overpayment - desperate for help cant cope anymore

[Surfer01]

Firstly get someone who can do the books so show income and expenditure because all they will look at is income. We got caught the same way. I got made redundant and claimed HB for the first time in our lives. Using my redundancy money I purchased some goods for resale.

However when you took into account the fact that initially I was running at a "loss" because I had to pay for advertising, phone calls, etc my income was less than zero at that point. Unfortunately they do not look at it that way and only look at income. In our case it was only 3 months HB and CT claimed, but I argued my case about income being zero and they did not request a repayment. Luckily I had kept a record of all income and outgoings.

Anyway I gave up the business and continue to claim. The crazy part about it is if I had been able to continue, I probably would have been able to get off HB & CT benefits a lot quicker instead of continuing to claim for another several months before getting a permanent job!

[hollow_atom]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I am going to go to the CAB next week and get some advice. Im skint so i couldnt afford to go to a solicitors.

 

Well, the latest , is that yesterday i received a new letter from HB inviting me in for an interview under caution. It states that they have evidence i may have commited fraud, and that they will present the evidence to me at the interview. It does state however that i do not have to attend the interview.

 

Im suffering so badly through this and other issues that i have massive anxiety issues and i would dread going in for this interview.

 

I think i will write back to the original letter telling me i owe the money back, explaining i never got previous letters and please give me more information, and also state that if i do owe anything i will be willing to pay it back best i can within my means.

 

I cant go in for this interview though. Im literally at the end of the road with this. I would rather be dead then go to prison, or live the next decade in poverty.

 

I am considering going to the doctors. I havnt been for years, i have some kind of phobia about the whole " health care " system. The last time i was at the doctors was when i had my breakdown, which was 7 years ago. i feel worse then I did back then though so im considering going to the doctors and telling them honestly how i feel .. that i have this anxiety, i cant sleep, cant eat, im so depressed i consider taking my own life on a daily basis right now. It is only my wife and family that keep me going.

 

I am at my wits end. I accept responsibility if i have messed up here, but i CAN NOT go to prison . £15,000 is nothing when you consider that our society and world is run by criminals who have stolen everything from the people. I do not want to be a part of that system.

 

Can anyone advise me what would happen if i elected not to go for the interview, but showed willing in every other way ?

 

and like i said, im going to CAB next week for some advise

[hollow_atom]

I worked and claimed and didn't declare the income. I earned peanuts to be honest, just something extra to put a bit of jam on the table every now and then.

 

This period of working and claiming covered a period of 15 months.

 

I also claimed Council Tax Benefit as well.

 

In total the amount that they said that I owed was just over £12,000.

 

I elected to go to trial at Crown Court and received a 6 month prison sentence, with 5 months of it suspended for 1 year. I actually only spent 2 weeks of the 1 month in prison. On top of that they wanted the £12,000 back - I still have £3500 to pay back. If that isn't paid by the end of this year, I have been told that I will have to go back to court and could very well be sent down again.

 

I had a clean record and had never been in trouble before with anything.

 

So yes you can and could go to prison for £15,000 - I did for £12,000!!!

 

Hi there, when you say you "elected" to go to trial at crown court, may i ask what your other options were at the time ?

[kk3852]

I know it seems daunting to go for an interview but it can only be to your advantage. As things stand they can only see from your bank statements that there is money going into the account (s) - they have no explanation as to where it has come from.

 

This is your chance to put over your explanation and at the end of it they should reconsider any overpayment of housing benefit and reassess with your correct amount of income. You need to take with you some sort of profit and loss to show how much you made. I can see why they have disallowed your benefit for the whole period as they may have tried to contact you without success and without any other explanation they would have to assume that all the money going into your accounts is income which you have not declared.

 

Forget about all the scare stories about interviews under caution, the vast majority of investigators behave professionally and are there to get to the truth. If you tell the truth you should have no problems. I don't want to scare you but you could finish up being arrested if you just fail to attend. Sending a letter will not help as they need to speak to you face to face. By all means, contact the investigator and let them know about your anxiety issues and that you are scared about going - they might put your mind at rest.

 

You can take someone with you for moral support, that person cannot answer questions for you. It is very unlikely that this will go away unless you attend. And when you do go it could make things a whole lot better.

[45002]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I am going to go to the CAB next week and get some advice. Im skint so i couldn't afford to go to a solicitors.

 

Well, the latest , is that yesterday i received a new letter from HB inviting me in for an interview under caution. It states that they have evidence i may have committed fraud, and that they will present the evidence to me at the interview. It does state however that i do not have to attend the interview.

 

Im suffering so badly through this and other issues that i have massive anxiety issues and i would dread going in for this interview.

 

I think i will write back to the original letter telling me i owe the money back, explaining i never got previous letters and please give me more information, and also state that if i do owe anything i will be willing to pay it back best i can within my means.

 

I cant go in for this interview though. Im literally at the end of the road with this. I would rather be dead then go to prison, or live the next decade in poverty.

 

I am considering going to the doctors. I havnt been for years, i have some kind of phobia about the whole " health care " system. The last time i was at the doctors was when i had my breakdown, which was 7 years ago. i feel worse then I did back then though so im considering going to the doctors and telling them honestly how i feel .. that i have this anxiety, i cant sleep, cant eat, im so depressed i consider taking my own life on a daily basis right now. It is only my wife and family that keep me going.

 

I am at my wits end. I accept responsibility if i have messed up here, but i CAN NOT go to prison . £15,000 is nothing when you consider that our society and world is run by criminals who have stolen everything from the people. I do not want to be a part of that system.

 

Can anyone advise me what would happen if i elected not to go for the interview, but showed willing in every other way ?

 

and like i said, im going to CAB next week for some advise

 

£15,000 is Tax players money and council have a duty in Law to protect and get that money back...

 

You don't have to go to the IUC

 

But they could come and see you with a warrant and the police in tow at a later stage !

 

Edited by me at 15:40 hrs. 24/08/2013

 

 

 

 

 

So you gone from running a multi million pound business to a manger of a DWP funded organization or is it the over way round !

Edited August 26, 2013 by citizenB
IUC........................ removed quoted post already unapproved

[hollow_atom]

it's the other way around. i ran the DWP programme, and after that experience i didnt take the job / sellout offer, and walked away from it. I worked for Reed from 2002 - 2004, when i left Reed i started my own business, which was 2004 - 2006. then in 2006 and into 2007 was when i had my nervous breakdown.

[45002]

it's the other way around. I ran the dwp programme, and after that experience i didnt take the job / sellout offer, and walked away from it. I worked for reed from 2002 - 2004, when i left reed i started my own business, which was 2004 - 2006. Then in 2006 and into 2007 was when i had my nervous breakdown.

 

 

ok !

[hollow_atom]

hey i only just read this part of your post

 

"£15,000 is Tax players money and council have a duty in Law to protect and get that money back...

If you don't go to the IUC they may come and see you with a warrant and the police in tow ! "

 

i didnt mean to sound flippant and probably did not put my point across properly. I just meant that i dont believe in the system at all, and when you consider the massive fraud that is the economic and banking system and how the goverment is puppet of the true leaders of this world, and the agenda that is on record economically , it is not comparable. still dont think im explaining my position properly.

 

also, does anyone know how likely it is that if i dont attend the IUC that they will arrest me ? would they need to obtain a warrant ? and would I be notified of thier intention to do this ? cheers

[45002]

hey i only just read this part of your post

 

"£15,000 is Tax players money and council have a duty in Law to protect and get that money back...

If you don't go to the IUC they may come and see you with a warrant and the police in tow ! "

 

i didn't mean to sound flippant and probably did not put my point across properly. I just meant that i don't believe in the system at all, and when you consider the massive fraud that is the economic and banking system and how the government is puppet of the true leaders of this world, and the agenda that is on record economically , it is not comparable. still don't think im explaining my position properly.

 

also, does anyone know how likely it is that if i don't attend the IUC that they will arrest me ? would they need to obtain a warrant ? and would I be notified of their intention to do this ? cheers

 

Believe me I and fellow CAG users would have read All of you posts several times by now !

[hollow_atom]

I have read your All of you posts several times now !

 

sorry, i dont understand what your getting at ?

[antone]

also, does anyone know how likely it is that if i dont attend the IUC that they will arrest me ? would they need to obtain a warrant ? and would I be notified of thier intention to do this ? cheers

 

Attending an IUC is optional, you can't be arrested for not attending.

[hollow_atom]

Attending an IUC is optional, you can't be arrested for not attending.

 

Your right. I have spent all afternoon reading this document

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/fraud-guide-interview-under-caution.pdf

 

it is the full guidelines for IUC. You can not be arrested for not attending a voluntary interview. All that can happen, is if the HB decide they have enough to prosecute *without* you attending the IUC ( which is pretty much as the document guidlines for the interviewers state, designed to get you to admit guilt , that you knew what you did was incorrect ) then they will refer it to the Crown Prosecution Service , for them to determine if they will prosecute. If they do, they inform you in writing.

 

Not sure why people think police can just show up at your door, but the document i linked to suggests otherwise.

[hollow_atom]

here is a copy and paste of the relevant section from the document

 

Claimant fails to attend requ

ests for IUC (England and Wales

only)

47.

Section 112 of the Social Security

Administration Act (SSAA) requires the

prosecution to prove that:

•

a representation was

made to obtain benefit

•

the representation wa

s made by the defendant

•

the representation was false and

•

the defendant knew it was false.

48.

Under Section 112(

1A) of the Act:

“a person shall be guilty of an offence if:

a)

there has been a change of circum

stances affecting any entitlement

of his to any benefit or other

payment or advantage under any

provision of the relevant social security legislation;

b)

the change is not a change that is

excluded by regul

ations from the

changes that are required to be notified;

c)

he knows that the change affects

an entitlement of his to such a

benefit or other payment or advantage; and

d)

he dishonestly fails to give a prom

pt notification of

that change in

the prescribed manner to

the prescribed person.”

49.

It is presently the policy that

only working and claiming cases under

section 112 and 112(1A) of the SSAA can be

put forward for prosecution in

the absence of an interview under caution. The investigating officer should

always seek to prove all appropriate el

ements in the preceding paragraphs

during an Interview Under Caution (IUC).

50.

Where an IUC has not been conduct

ed and the case is one of undeclared

work it will not be accepted for pros

ecution by the Crown Prosecution

Service (CPS) unless the prosecutor is

satisfied that there is evidence to

prove ‘nexus’, i.e. that the person

named on the prosecution file is the

person who claimed benefit and work

ed and is the person named on the

Statement of Earnings fo

rm EQ1. For example:

•

a detailed recognition st

atement by the employer

and proof of nexus,

exhibiting any relevant documents su

ch as photographs, work rosters,

signing in sheets, application forms. or

Fraud Guide – Interview Under Caution (06/13)

•

details from a bank or building society, which prove that the person who

received the earnings is the individual

named on the prosecution file,

•

where the person is self-employ

ed the EQ1SE asks specific questions

of employment agencies, for ex

ample, around the persons self

employment, the type of work

being undertaken, the Construction

Industry Scheme card number

, or if they have records or receipts that

show that a person is self employed.

[45002]

Attending an IUC is optional, you can't be arrested for not attending.

 

I have edited the mistake I made in post #31 in regards to IUC

[kk3852]

Attending an IUC is optional however, the directive from DWP managers is now that a person is asked to voluntary attend once and if they fail to do so that the police will be contacted to conduct an arrest.

[antone]

Attending an IUC is optional however, the directive from DWP managers is now that a person is asked to voluntary attend once and if they fail to do so that the police will be contacted to conduct an arrest.

 

Can you provide a source to support this statement? There is no, repeat no, requirement to attend an IUC.

[abc123def]

I would recommend you go to the IUC, remember you can say as little and as much as you like. If you feel confused or frightened say you feel confused so you are unable to answer that question at this time and ask them to move on to the next question. As you have already learned, you can say no comment at any time and for any question. But when there are simple answers you will have the opportunity to explain yourself and they may be happy with them and be prepared to work out any overpayment and work out affordable to you repayment options and be prepared not to involve courts and the legal system this way. Any caution they give you is civil and won't show up on any dbs check.

 

Do go to your GP, getting your GP's support and their knowledge of any MH issues can only help you. A friend of mine went to an IUC and her overpayments was £34,000 but due to her MH diagnosis they did not take her to court and she now pays an affordable amount which she admits will take her a long time to repay, the words she uses are a lifetime. However her dbs is clear and she has not had any contact with the police or courts and I know she would say the IUC was an ordeal, but that the situation afterwards was much better for her attending and sorting things out without the legal system being involved. Had she not gone to the IUC, I am sure she would have been prosecuted and things would have been more serious and far worse.

[kk3852]

Can you provide a source to support this statement? There is no, repeat no, requirement to attend an IUC.

 

I could if I was at work..... the new (ish) letter of invitation to attend for IUC states that arrest will be considered if a person does not attend without contacting the Department. The 'interviewee' is asked to respond to confirm attendance.

[antone]

I could if I was at work..... the new (ish) letter of invitation to attend for IUC states that arrest will be considered if a person does not attend without contacting the Department. The 'interviewee' is asked to respond to confirm attendance.

 

Right, so it's more that if you don't contact them they'll be annoyed, rather than that you must attend.

[jabba jones]

Right, so it's more that if you don't contact them they'll be annoyed, rather than that you must attend.

 

Arrests are getting quite common Antone.

 

You can blame the many solicitors who advised their clients to ignore IUC appointments for this.

[tokenfield]

Hi there, when you say you "elected" to go to trial at crown court, may i ask what your other options were at the time ?

 

To be dealt with by a Magistrates Court. I pleaded not guilty and requested a trial by jury, hence Crown Court.

[tokenfield]

I can confirm that that is correct!!

 

I refused to go to an interview at the Jobcentre. A week later I had a 5am 'knock' and about 10 police officers barged in. I was arrested & cuffed and put in the back of their van. The rest turned the house upside down. My wife was hysterical.

[antone]

Arrests are getting quite common Antone.

 

You can blame the many solicitors who advised their clients to ignore IUC appointments for this.

 

Thanks for the correction Jabba. Just to be clear, you can refuse to attend - you just can't ignore the letter. Is that right?

[jabba jones]

Thanks for the correction Jabba. Just to be clear, you can refuse to attend - you just can't ignore the letter. Is that right?

 

Yes you can refuse to attend. IMO it's not normally advisable though & on certain cases I have seen arrests still take place.

 

Reading out a written statement is a possibility if you think you know what the allegation is about. It's something Hollow Atom might want to consider, but he would have to make sure it covered everything.

[tokenfield]

 

also, does anyone know how likely it is that if i dont attend the IUC that they will arrest me ? would they need to obtain a warrant ? and would I be notified of thier intention to do this ? cheers

 

I can only reiterate what happened to me. I refused to attend.

 

A short while later I had the police at my front door in the early hours of the morning.

 

I was arrested by them and interviewed by them. The DWP/Council had handed the case to the police.

 

What would have been a failure to notify a change of circumstances which is what the DWP would have gone for, I was instead charged under the Fraud Act.

 

Any attempt to obtain money by deception - which is one of the charges they laid against me has a 10 year prison term attached.

 

The reason the police became involved was because I refused to co-operate with the DWP and they had nowhere to go.

 

Because the police were now taking the action that is why they turned our house upside down looking for anything and everything that could be used as evidence in the theft of benefit money as well as to delve into what else I might have done in the past that they knew nothing about.

 

During the search they found a letter from our bank that I had bounced a cheque. I was charged for that offence as well.

 

They even went as far as to contact our mortgage provider to find out what we had put on the application form years earlier especially income and employment details.