Repossession questioned by deeds not being signed

[IS IT ME?]

Apple,

Ben running away again lol

 

MUTT1,

Well said I could not have put it better. I for one have seen what happens when the time comes that some one can not pay the higher and higher rates the lender puts on and believe me by the end of the year you will see more and more coming on here.

 

If and only If Ben was right do you really think I or any one else would just walk away from this you really are fanciful in your thinking Ben

I have taken advice from a JUDGE BEN who I think knowns what he is doing and sits in the Stand London and will show you and the lenders whats what in January.

I WILL WIN and I hope you will then come on here and post your apology.

[IS IT ME?]

Mutt1

BUT the lenders do NOT send the conditions or terms to the LR as you will not find any on file.

[IS IT ME?]

Apple,

I think you need to post this up again every other day so it does not get lost in the LLLLLLOOONNNG posts if you know what I mean or is that the idea???

[p.j]

Ben.....where and when did P.J say this? Did I miss it??

 

Apple

 

hi ben i said it was on hold so they could come back and show who i am supposed to pay my mortgage to i'e if its acenden then why wasn't they in court,if it was preferred why wasn't it them in court oh and one more thing why does my standing orders show that i am paying southern pacific mortgages? i also said my application is still with the chamber. also why did they not have in court the person who as made a sworn affidavit not turn up in court to support there defence that they made why was it an agent that as nothing to do with neither of the companies in question also neither there solicitors is this the correct way for a case to go ahead when its someones property on the line ?or as the dj had his mind made up before you go in by these people just saying?

 

 

 

 

pj

Edited October 20, 2013 by p.j
spelling

[applecart]

Now I will leave you with Apple who will tell you that everything is all nice and rosie and you have nothing to worry about.

 

Just remember it isn't Apple's family home on the line here, it is not Apple who is at risk of losing their family home it is you.

 

Ben, a poster has provided for you the 'merry go round' that is all things 'suspended possession order'.....You truly have no idea what you are talking about do you??......you truly don't.....and you know what....it is becoming so obvious.....that it is 'scary' mate...

 

The applications to the Chamber are legitimately made based on grounds founded in LAW.....there is NO COST to make the application Ben...

 

It appears clear that you and others are so anxious to assist all Borrowers stave off the loss of their homes.... that you simply can't bare the thought of ANY Borrower even 'dreaming' of making an application to the Chamber????

 

If it makes it more 'palatable for you, the moderators and others to bare' Ben..... look at it like this......

 

We are making the applications as Borrowers to assist ALL Lenders be absolutely sure that they can take possession of our homes......and that the other threads can be relied upon for assistance as normal......How's that?? : )

 

Apple

[applecart]

Good Idea Is It Me..... I will post it again... : )

 

For those Borrowers who signed Deeds after 1926 BUT BEFORE October 2003.....Let's discuss THIS:

 

25 Proprietor’s power to create charges.

 

(1)The proprietor of any registered land may by deed—

(a)charge the registered land with the payment at an appointed time of any principal sum of money either with or without interest;

(b)charge the registered land in favour of a building society [F1(within the meaning of the Building Societies Act 1986) in accordance with] the rules of that society.

(2)A charge may be in any form provided that—

(a)the registered land comprised in the charge is described by reference to the register or in any other manner sufficient to enable the registrar to identify the same without reference to any other document;

(b)the charge does not refer to any other interest or charge affecting the land which—

(i)would have priority over the same and is not registered or protected on the register,

(ii)is not an overriding interest.

(3)Any provision contained in a charge which purports to—

(i)take away from the proprietor thereof the power of transferring it by registered disposition or of requiring the cessation thereof to be noted on the register; or

(ii)affect any registered land or charge other than that in respect of which the charge is to be expressly registered,shall be void.

 

The above is taken directly from the LRA 1925 Section 25.......it relates to the POWER of the PROPRIETOR of a REGISTERED ESTATE during the stated period.....

 

CAN ANYONE SEE A POWER TO CHARGE THE REGISTERED ESTATE WITH A MORTGAGE??............... .....OR DOES IT ACTUALLY SAY essentially that:......ANYTHING OTHER THAN A CHARGE TO SECURE INDEBTEDNESS......."SHALL BE VOID"????

 

 

SHOUT up folks....... I can't hear you????

 

Apple

[IS IT ME?]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrr no!

[applecart]

Have I missed something, or has there been a case that has been judged and won using your suggestions? If so please provide information to confirm this.

 

All I've seen is less than a handful of people had cases adjourned. I wouldn't call them successful unless people have judgments that allow them to keep their homes.

 

A skirmish may have held off the enemy, but the war is far from over, so please don't imply to those seeking advice to help them keep their homes that your ideas have been successful. They are still not tried and tested unlike the cases in the Home Repossessions Successes sub forum.

 

Caro,

 

Thank you for your input.

 

The WAR begun from the instant we posted to say the DEED IS VOID.....the beauty of the 'war' ... is simply THIS:

 

It will FINISH in the court room.....the concept of 'suspended 'mortgage' possessions .... in the UK will be EXTINGUISHED....

 

IF you rely that it is only Is It Me's friends case that has been presented to the Chamber......you would be incorrect....

 

We have SUCCESSFULLY stopped lenders gaining suspended possession orders in circumstances where they would normally do so - this has and is happening for any one that has relied on the content of this thread....that I'm afraid..... you simply cannot deny.... : )

 

The Lender is already feeling the IMPACT of our SUCCESS.....more so than he ever did with a 'suspended possession order' being granted to his favor........The WAR has STARTED.....

 

There is NOTHING the Lender can do about it Caro......absolutely NOTHING.....

 

We will assist many more arrive to the same SUCCESSFUL outcome - whether they happen to post on CaG or not...

 

We are all more than aware why Ben continues to respond to this thread....he says he does so to prevent people losing their homes....

 

Can either you or Ben advise how many have lost their homes following this thread?

 

Then can you advise.... how many have gone on to lose their homes after following the 'tried and tested' method please?

 

I think Stats are a good guide...do you have any figures on this please that you could share with us....?

 

Apple

[applecart]

Errrrrrrrrrrrrr no!

 

I thought not.....you see, Ben keeps telling us all that a lender is permitted within the general law to take benefit of a 'charge by way of legal mortgage'.....I think he tried to convince me that the lender could somehow circumvent the law......but I simply cannot see where it is in the statute that this is so.....

 

Any one else found where it says in relation to a charge that the Borrower has power to charge a registered estate with a 'mortgage' or with a charge by way of legal mortgage??

 

I purposefully avoid LPA 1925 section 87 of course......because that does not relate to the Borrowers 'power'.....

 

Apple

[p.j]

anyone heard from alisono?

 

pj

[MUTT1]

Hi Ben,

 

Thanks for your earlier post and your advice (given with good intentions I really do believe) but, you must realise that the likes of Norgan and the precedent that it set, was, and is, of use when a borrower can submit this piece of case law together with a realistic proposal to remedy the present situation that they are in.

 

Believe me when I say that I have used whatever I could including Norgan and other case law to have the possession that the lender in one particular case, was desperate to get, I was able to persuade the judge not to grant outright possession but to suspend the order instead.

 

Norgan, in itself may sway the judge to allow the current arrears situation to be paid over the remaining length of the mortgage however, this must be in addition to the regular contractual monthly payment.

 

So, you will have a situation (and I am talking from experience) where someone has managed to come away from court with a suspended possession order but, knows for a fact that next months payment and the one after will not be met.

 

Advising people in dire financial problems with no hope of being able to offer anything as a realistic proposal, is wrong and pointless even though I know that the advice given is given in good faith. You and others must realise that there are a number of very desperate people out there who have nowhere else to turn to other than this thread.

 

The advice given in this thread, is either used or ignored, no one is forced to use it, but for some it might be just enough to provide some time where, perhaps through a new job, or a money windfall (this has happened and not just once or twice) where the dire financial state they may have been in can now be improved.

 

I can tell you for a fact, there are many, many people out there who are living in absolute dread of interest rates going up. If this happens and of course it will, lets just see what happens in relation to repossessions.

[bhall]

Hello Mutt1

 

It may not always sound it but my posts are always made with the best intentions .

 

If people are using it as just a delaying tactic, to buy time for an improvement in their personal circumstances I wish them all the luck in the world.

 

The other side of the coin though is that in virtually all mortgage agreements there is a clause in which the borrower agrees to indemnify the lenders legal costs. This means legal costs can be added to the debt already owed. If someone is already struggling to repay a debt, how are they expected to repay an increased debt.

 

This could actually speed up the process of some people losing their homes.

 

Anyway, this is not being portrayed as a delaying tactic by this thread. It is being portrayed as a way in which someone would not have to pay for their house. Equity makes that an impossibility but that is the ideas expressed by this thread.

 

By all means use it as a delaying tactic but never rely upon this as anything more. Always be prepared to have costs added to the amount owed and never accept anything posted by Apple as factual.

 

If one cell of my body seriously thought this had a chance I would say go for it. But the law is what it is and not what it is said to be in this thread.

 

Anyway I hope things work out for you Mutt1

[marika41]

Hi marika41,

 

LR have had long enough (as long as it has been received) do as you say and phone tomorrow.

 

Hi MUTT1 Well it should have been received last friday as I paid to have it sent next day delivery last thursday and I have the receipt, but yes I will definitely be phoning first thing in the morning,will let you know what they say

[applecart]

anyone heard from alisono?

 

pj

 

Why do you ask?......I noted that last time Alisono was working away.......ummmm,that's a nice thought actually - able to work away secure in the knowledge that the lender cannot take possession of the family home.....wow.....that's a nice thought isn't it : )

 

I think she will be back as and when she needs info......one things for sure...she knows where we are if she needs us : )

 

Apple

[p.j]

Why do you ask?......I noted that last time Alisono was working away.......ummmm,that's a nice thought actually - able to work away secure in the knowledge that the lender cannot take possession of the family home.....wow.....that's a nice thought isn't it : )

 

I think she will be back as and when she needs info......one things for sure...she knows where we are if she needs us : )

 

 

Apple

 

hi apple i thought alisono had a date of 18th of this month unless i read it wrong?

 

pj

[applecart]

Hi MUTT1 Well it should have been received last friday as I paid to have it sent next day delivery last thursday and I have the receipt, but yes I will definitely be phoning first thing in the morning,will let you know what they say

 

Markita

 

What is going on?? I agree.....phone them in the morning......let us know what they say...ok?

 

Apple

[applecart]

Hello Mutt1

 

It may not always sound it but my posts are always made with the best intentions .

 

Really??

 

If people are using it as just a delaying tactic, to buy time for an improvement in their personal circumstances I wish them all the luck in the world.

 

It is the Lender who benefits from 'delay tactics'......they get you to suggest everyone go to the other repossession threads instead of this one......this thread is nothing to do with 'delay tactics'.....this thread is to do with JUSTICE......to STOP LENDERS taking Borrowers homes UNLAWFULLY.....

 

The other side of the coin though is that in virtually all mortgage agreements there is a clause in which the borrower agrees to indemnify the lenders legal costs. This means legal costs can be added to the debt already owed. If someone is already struggling to repay a debt, how are they expected to repay an increased debt.

 

Yes this is true...it may surprise you to know that lenders add the cost of the proceedings to the Borrowers loan due to that same 'clause' after they secure the suspended possession order...or did you not know that?????......and yes, they also know that a Borrower will struggle to pay the 'increased debt' Ben.......I get the impression you are trying to make out there is some kind of difference.......Well, guess what......there is no difference!......not to the Borrower anyway!!

 

This could actually speed up the process of some people losing their homes.

 

Your JOKING??? Could it??.... Really???.....so, again...NO difference there then....other than when you use the info in this thread......there is no suspended possession order......less risk of losing your home because the application is with the Chamber........no costs added......and a short wait until the Deed is determined to be VOID ...... you forget NO Borrower is dealing with a 'lender' in the strictest interpretation of the word.....ALL BORROWERS ARE DEALING WITH DEBT COLLECTORS.....once the deed is found VOID....the debt collector will be out of business.....DEBT COLLECTORS ARE NOT ENTITLED TO POSSESSION OF ANY BORROWERS HOME....

 

Anyway, this is not being portrayed as a delaying tactic by this thread. It is being portrayed as a way in which someone would not have to pay for their house. Equity makes that an impossibility but that is the ideas expressed by this thread.

 

Ben...If the Deed is VOID...are you suggesting the Chamber should CIRCUMVENT THE LAW?.....that's essentially what you are touting for a plea of 'equity.... You and your chums are suggesting that 'equity' will act to say that the un-executed deed is to be seen as duly executed.....that would be a total farce.....tantamount to asking the Chamber to overlook the RRO....the LRA 1925...the LRA 2002...'garguillo'....'bibby' etc etc......Come on Ben....get real....!

 

By all means use it as a delaying tactic but never rely upon this as anything more. Always be prepared to have costs added to the amount owed and never accept anything posted by Apple as factual.

 

Thanks for your 'vote' of confidence Ben.....I'm sure everyone will follow your advise forthwith.......NOT......!!! 70,000 and growing Ben...... : )

 

If one cell of my body seriously thought this had a chance I would say go for it. But the law is what it is and not what it is said to be in this thread.

 

The Law according to Ben & Co....that is....not the legislator.....NOONE needs your 'sanction' to make applications Ben......it is a Borrowers inherent CIVIL RIGHT to do so....be mindful that you do not overstep your 'status' mate..... : )

 

Anyway I hope things work out for you Mutt1

 

Not if you can help it hey??? come on be honest...that's what you wanted to say really .....It's not like you to hold back coming forward...Are you ok??

 

Apple

[applecart]

hi apple i thought alisono had a date of 18th of this month unless i read it wrong?

 

pj

 

I found one of Alisono's posts... this is what it said:

 

"

Good morning,

 

I am now back in the land of the living after being away with work.

 

I have a quick question this morning please and ask for your guidance.

 

I have all my papers now ready to go, been hanging on for the deed copy fromHMLR which hasn't yet appeared. I have an official copy that I've had for 2 years it says it s an official copy and has a HMLR stamp on it, I think I may of got this via the lender a few years ago when I asked for t's & C's anyway but obviously photocopied from land registry.

 

I also have all the information and papers to serve via the property chamber so do I add as a point into the prepared defence at the bottom and mark as exhibit D or just take these separately on Monday morning to the court to be stamped when I hand deliver. I will next day deliver to the lenders solicitors.

 

Funny but if I send the chamber stuff as directed by the chamber this is not to the mortgage administrator or their solicitors addresses, 1 is the address on the mortgage deed copy the other the official registered office of PW&C London.

 

After the hearing on the 2nd October I haven't had a letter back from anyone not even the court with the judges directions on, which I thought I should of have instructing me what I had to do as the outcome of his finding that day and filing my defence etc....

 

Thanks for the advice and help"

 

Apple

[IS IT ME?]

thats good apple really good lol.

I see nothing of any use as usual.

[p.j]

I found one of Alisono's posts... this is what it said:

 

"

Good morning,

 

 

I am now back in the land of the living after being away with work.

 

I have a quick question this morning please and ask for your guidance.

 

I have all my papers now ready to go, been hanging on for the deed copy fromHMLR which hasn't yet appeared. I have an official copy that I've had for 2 years it says it s an official copy and has a HMLR stamp on it, I think I may of got this via the lender a few years ago when I asked for t's & C's anyway but obviously photocopied from land registry.

 

I also have all the information and papers to serve via the property chamber so do I add as a point into the prepared defence at the bottom and mark as exhibit D or just take these separately on Monday morning to the court to be stamped when I hand deliver. I will next day deliver to the lenders solicitors.

 

Funny but if I send the chamber stuff as directed by the chamber this is not to the mortgage administrator or their solicitors addresses, 1 is the address on the mortgage deed copy the other the official registered office of PW&C London.

 

After the hearing on the 2nd October I haven't had a letter back from anyone not even the court with the judges directions on, which I thought I should of have instructing me what I had to do as the outcome of his finding that day and filing my defence etc....

 

Thanks for the advice and help"

 

Apple

 

hi apple read it wrong lol

 

pj.

[applecart]

thats good apple really good lol.

I see nothing of any use as usual.

 

Yes, I agree......

 

I was also tempted to go through his posts one by one and provide the FACTS for him.....but, then I thought.....there is no point continually repeating the FACTS of LAW to him......not when he is adamant in his misguided belief that LRA section 23 (1) means a Lender can rely that a charge by way of legal mortgage is LAWFUL and is within the general permitted LAW........

 

 

Apple

[applecart]

hi apple read it wrong lol

 

pj.

 

No worries P.J : )

 

Apple

[marika41]

Markita

 

What is going on?? I agree.....phone them in the morning......let us know what they say...ok?

 

Apple

 

Just come off the phone to Land Registry, The first lady I spoke to was very nice, she told me there was no request showing on the screen at all, I explained I sent it by next day delivery on the 10th October, she double checked... nothing showing, she advised me to check the tracking, so I did, the automatic response service confirmed it was signed for at 11.54 am on the 11th October. I rang back the Land Registry, spoke to another lady who confirmed nothing showing on the screen and said they had not received anything yet. I explained I had just had confirmation it was received and signed for on the 11th october she then said I had to speak to someone at on team 5 and gave me the contact number. This lady said they had nothing and had I sent it to the correct address,i explained again and she said do I have the name of who signed for it, I said no but it has definitely been received and I said I was concerned and needed the documents, she then said she is going to send me a copy of the register and title plan. I said what about the deed, she said she will send me a copy of the charge, I asked if that was the deed she said it was a copy of the charge and said it is Lloyds who hold the charge isnt it? I said yes or cheltenham and gloucester. I asked again and said is a copy of the charge the deed? she said its the charge, I apologised for sounding dumb but I need an official copy of the deed for court and is the charge another name for the deed? She said yes and I should receive it in a few days. Am I being sent out an official copy of the deeds? I am very confused now.

Edited October 21, 2013 by marika41
wrong date inserted

[IS IT ME?]

Hi,

No its OK the charge is what you need.

The charge is what the lender puts on for the mortgage.

A Deed is what the House is on so to speak as it all about the piece of land it sits on if you get it??

[MUTT1]

Hi marika,

 

How do you know that it has been received by LR when there is no signature on the Royal Mail receipt. What does it show when you use Track and Trace? Has your cheque been cashed yet?

 

Hopefully, you will have been dealing directly with your local LR office, if you have been promised documents from LR then it should send you everything currently showing on the register. You should get your mortgage deed (official copy) and anything else showing for one fee of £11.00.

 

If you need any historical documents i.e. previous mortgage deeds, then it is £11.00 for each document required that is not currently shown on the register.

 

So, if LR are true to its word then you should get everything that you need.