Fit for Work without Medical or ESA50

[Inmysparetime]

Hi everyone

 

I am hoping someone can help me...

 

I am helping someone with Bipolar amongst other health problems to navigate their way through this joke of a system and I fear his case is at the beginning of a complete mess up.

 

He has three scenarios going on at once.

 

1. His Contribution Based ESA expired on 29th January- they didn't send form to apply for Income Based (have it now)

2. He is being re-assessed for ESA - ESA50 completed and returned a couple of weeks ago

3. He received an appointment with ATOS

 

He received an appointment letter from ATOS the day after the appointment was actually taking place. I rang ATOS to explain why he obviously didn't turn up. They then send the questionnaire letter asking for an explanation as to why the appointment was missed. On the same day as the appointment his ESA payments were stopped. I rang DWP to ask why this was. They said because he didn't turn up to his ATOS appointment. I explained this can't be right as his appointment with ATOS was at 2:10 but his payment was stopped before then so how could DWP possibly know, beforehand, that he wasn't going to turn up for his appointment.

 

The lady then confirmed, in fact, his payment had stopped as his Contribution Based ESA has expired and he had not sent back form to apply for Income Based ESA. I explained that he had never received this form and she said she would post one. That form went back to them today.

 

Today he received a letter from DWP which states 'We asked you to go to a Work Capability Assessment on 18th February so that a Health Care Professional could advise us on your ability to work. We have looked at your reasons for not attending the assessment, or your refusal to participate fully with the assessment. A decision maker had decided you are capable of work from 19th February' It then goes on if you dispute the decision you should appeal using form GL24.

 

His ESA50 questionnaire was only submitted a couple of weeks ago, we has not had a medical because he received the appointment letter the day after the medical was to take place so how on earth can they judge him fit for work for not attending?

 

When they eventually process his ESA50 I'm sure he'll be invited in for a medical.

 

When they process his application for Income Based ESA they will see he is entitled.

 

Has anyone been in a similar situation themselves? Does anyone have any advice?

 

Thank you for reading and thank you in advance for any advice/comments

[honeybee13]

Hello there. This sounds a bit of a mess, I feel sorry for your friend.

 

I expect the guys will be able to help you unravel this, they should be along soon.

 

My best, HB

[Inmysparetime]

Hello there. This sounds a bit of a mess, I feel sorry for your friend.

 

I expect the guys will be able to help you unravel this, they should be along soon.

 

My best, HB

 

Thanks honeybee

[fightingback99]

 

His ESA50 questionnaire was only submitted a couple of weeks ago, we has not had a medical because he received the appointment letter the day after the medical was to take place so how on earth can they judge him fit for work for not attending?

 

When they eventually process his ESA50 I'm sure he'll be invited in for a medical.

 

 

Sorry to hear of the position your friend has been put in due to their mistake. Leaving the income based ESA3 form aside for the moment , sounds to me like they received your friends ESA50 form, looked at it, and decided to invite him in for a new assessment. Some areas process these forms very quickly and decide to ahve a face to face assessment.

 

Because of their mistake your friend missed his scheduled appointment. A failure to attend notice was passed to a DWP decsion maker from the ATOS assessment centre. Every reported FTA results in a decision maker automatically deciding the person is fit to work. Until such time as you send back your explanation on the GL24 outlining the reasons for the not attedning. At which point a DM will decide whether to reinstate the ESA payment or not. .

 

If the decision is in your friend's favour and the ESA 3 form has been dealt with for income based then his payemtns should restart, and he'll be sent another assessment date. .

 

So I tend to think until you get this appeal back explaining it was their fault, the appointment was missed , your friend is unlikely to get any ESA payments.

 

What date is printed on the actual appointment letter?. If it's like 2 days before the assessment date will be easy to show their mistake. Did you record the call or take the name of the person you spoke to about the date mix up.

 

Sure more experienced posters will help shortly.

[worried33]

it has similiarities to my case last year.

 

Basically the DWP are working on the basis they are allowed to assume the postal system gets the letter to you on time, they ignore facts and just work on probability.

 

I used case CSIB/721/2004 as a reference point in my appeal, that case states the DWP have to at least prove they posted the letter in reasonable time to allow delivery on time, on time been 7 days prior to the appointment. Like myself your situation fell just after christmas when royal mail are well known for been in chaos.

 

So appeal with a GL24 form, state CSIB/721/2004 and that they have to provide the evidence it was posted at a reasonable time that delivery of the letter would be before a week before the appointment. If your friend has a previous history of complying with the DWP such as attending previous medicals, also make this clear in the appeal so then their probability factor goes in his favour.

 

I did get a reconsideration so never went to appeal however I had multiple peices of evidence that they kept getting my postcode wrong including my MP as a witness, so you may not be so lucky, but defenitly fight this. They never got to the bottom of my postcode issue, instead the DM just accepted that I probably didnt get the letter based on all the circumstances and my previous history.

 

I also agree with fightingback, the ESA3 wont do much if you dont get this decision overturned as now he has lost underlying entitlement to ESA.

 

Also as well as appealing put in a new claim for ESA at the same time, what this will do is get a new assessment booked with ATOS, until that assessment is done however you wont get any payments (unless you get the reconsideration), not even the assessment rate. You cant put in the new claim until after the fit for work date.

Edited March 13, 2013 by worried33

[Inmysparetime]

Hi everyone and thank you very much for your replies.

 

I am currently on hold to DWP in an attempt to ask some questions.

 

This appointment was sent out before the ESA50 was even posted. I want to now know why they were calling him for assessment in the first place. The ESA50 was returned late (they knew about this) could this be why? Or perhaps he was asked in for assessment because his Contribution Based ESA had ended?

 

Any thoughts?

[Inmysparetime]

Hi everyone and thank you very much for your replies.

 

I am currently on hold to DWP in an attempt to ask some questions.

 

This appointment was sent out before the ESA50 was even posted. I want to now know why they were calling him for assessment in the first place. The ESA50 was returned late (they knew about this) could this be why? Or perhaps he was asked in for assessment because his Contribution Based ESA had ended?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Having waited half an hour to speak to someone my call was cut-off, charming. Probably because it was after 6pm and they were all about to go home.

[worried33]

yeah ring in the morning, isnt even worth trying after 4pm.

 

Also mine was odd like that as well, my appointment came all too quick after the ESA50 as if they werent even going to read the ESA50.

 

You probably not going to get much out of the DWP on the phone, and you wont get them to change their minds on the phone either, right now your priority is sending of the GL24, and a new ESA application as soon as possible after the fit for work date.

[Inmysparetime]

yeah ring in the morning, isnt even worth trying after 4pm.

 

Also mine was odd like that as well, my appointment came all too quick after the ESA50 as if they werent even going to read the ESA50.

 

You probably not going to get much out of the DWP on the phone, and you wont get them to change their minds on the phone either, right now your priority is sending of the GL24, and a new ESA application as soon as possible after the fit for work date.

 

Hi worried33

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Well, I've just spoken to them. Useless as always but interesting.

 

When I asked why ATOS were required to invite him in for a medical before they had even received the ESA50 and he admitted this was rather strange and as far as he knows unheard of. I then asked him to confirm receipt of the ESA50 (they should have received it a few weeks ago) but he couldn't and that's when he started getting defensive! It was rather odd actually as he was very pleasant until that point!Could it be that he had literally just admitted, by confirming non-receipt of an ESA50, that the medical should not have been requested in the first place...

 

When he said there were no notes of receipt of the ESA50 I pushed telling him it should have been received by now as it was posted weeks ago but after the date given on the ATOS medical letter (don't think he picked up on what I was trying to do at this point) and expressed my concern at the thought it could have gone missing. I then reminded him of what he said at the beginning of our conversation about how ATOS send out medical assessment letters on receipt of form ESA50 but in this case he had just confirmed they STILL haven't received it. He then got all defensive saying it's not his fault the system isn't updated when these forms are/are not received, raising his voice etc - I never raised mine but stayed perfectly calm.

 

I know GL24 is the only next step to unravel this mess. Do you think it's worth mentioning the above alongside the fact he didn't receive the letter in time? I really don't think he should have been asked to attend a medical at this point in the first place.

[worried33]

I cant say if there is a legal requirement for the ESA50 to be recieved before proceeding with a WCA or not, so on that I cant advise. My earlier advise was based on what I did and what I was advised to do.

 

Incidently did you manage to even get that ESA3 form? I am struggling to get one for myself, got sent a GL24 instead.

[Inmysparetime]

I cant say if there is a legal requirement for the ESA50 to be recieved before proceeding with a WCA or not, so on that I cant advise. My earlier advise was based on what I did and what I was advised to do.

 

Incidently did you manage to even get that ESA3 form? I am struggling to get one for myself, got sent a GL24 instead.

 

Hi worried33

 

Yes, the ESA3 was received promptly after I was made aware of it's existence. When his payments stopped I rang to ask why and it was because his Contribution Based ESA had ended. Lady said he should have received form ESA3 in the post, I said he had not, she sent one... it turned up around 4 days later

[fightingback99]

Can't say 100% if an ESA50 form has to definitely be returned in all cases before calling for a face to face.ESA is awarded on an 'assessment' of which both can be satisfied by a form, , an assessment , combination of both, or on previous sufficient information in their system. Although majority get a new form to fill in prior to assessment being arranged.

 

You could mention it, but would concentrate more on reasons why appointment was missed ie - letter for assess date, received day after it was due.

[Inmysparetime]

Hi everyone

 

Just a little update for you all.

 

I am pleased to report, after calling DWP and speaking to a Decision Maker, the decision was overturned - ESA entitlement reinstated. Now getting on with submission of ESA3

[Guest]

Well done and good luck with the next bout.....