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    • "We suffer more in imagination than in reality" - really pleased this all happened. Settled by TO, full amount save as to costs and without interest claimed. I consider this a success but feel free to move this thread to wherever it's appropriate. I say it's a success because when I started this journey I was in a position of looking to pay interest on all these accounts, allowing them to default stopped that and so even though I am paying the full amount, it is without a doubt reduced from my position 3 years ago and I feel knowing this outcome was possible, happy to gotten this far, defended myself in person and left with a loan with terms I could only dream of, written into law as interest free! I will make better decisions in the future on other accounts, knowing key stages of this whole process. We had the opportunity to speak in court, Judge (feels like just before a ruling) was clear in such that he 'had all the relevant paperwork to make a judgement'. He wasn't pleased I hadn't settled before Court.. but then stated due to WS and verbal arguments on why I haven't settled, from my WS conclusion as follows: "11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. "  He offered to stand down the case to give us chance to settle and that that was for my benefit specifically - their Sols didn't want to, he asked me whether I wanted to proceed to judgement or be given the opportunity to settle. Naturally, I snapped his hand off and we entered negotiations (took about 45 minutes). He added I should get legal advice for matters such as these. They were unwilling to agree to a TO unless it was full amount claimed, plus costs, plus interest. Which I rejected as I felt that was unfair in light of the circumstances and the judges comments, I then countered with full amount minus all costs and interest over 84 months. They accepted that. I believe the Judge wouldn't have been happy if they didn't accept a payment plan for the full amount, at this late stage. The judge was very impressed by my articulate defence and WS (Thanks CAG!) he respected that I was wiling to engage with the process but commented only I  can know whether this debt is mine, but stated that Civil cases were based on balance of probabilities, not without shadow of a doubt, and all he needs to determine is whether the account existed. Verbal arguments aside; he has enough evidence in paperwork for that. He clarified that a copy of a DN and NOA is sufficient proof based on balance of probabilities that they were served. I still disagree, but hey, I'm just me.. It's definitely not strict proof as basically I have to prove the negative (I didn't receive them/they were not served), which is impossible. Overall, a great result I think! BT  
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1st credit and old Northern Rock Loan & Card Sold to Co-Op - SB'd - Scotland


Tartan Barty
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Sorry cant help with some of it but will try with the rest of it.

 

1) I think u still get the same cancelation rite/cooling off period for everything even if brought over the ned.

 

2) Yes it doesthey cant provide a cca with out the t&cs of the time the account was open as that is part of the cca of 1974.

 

3) no statement of account. rite so how can they prove what is owed if they cant/refuse to give u the info then how can they say they have not added charges etc.

 

4) interesting. They cant have a opening balance from B4 u signed the agreement so that has to be wrong. Maybe a error on there part but u cant obtain and access credit from B4 u applied for it or even sign the agreement with some companies.

Edited by The GodMother
missed some of the info.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Thank you The GodMother, much appreciated

 

OK so 1st Crudit have replied to my latest letter above:

 

They have sent through another copy of the first page of the agreement which is crystal clear. They have also sent through a 'edited'(!) copy of the supposed back page of the agreement which is illegible!

 

The covering letter gives me 4 options:

1. To confirm that the signature on the agreement is mine and then they will send through 'a complete copy of the relevant document'

2. If its not my signature, to send them a copy of my signature (yeah right)

3. If I have lived at the address mentioned if not where and when

4. If I believe it's fraud then I should go to the police.

 

So they have sent me an edited version of my agreement and the second page is unreadable. What should I do now? (to remind everyone the front page does seem to be an enforcable agreement)

 

I also recieved a letter from Northern Rock (the OC) stating that they sold the account to 1st Crudit a whole year after the date stated in 1st Crudits letter. Curiously the NR letter came from 1st Crudit as the address and reference number was the same but dated 21 May 2008!!! The NR letter also states the balance when sold and this is several hundred pounds less than 1st Crudit put in their letter! I think I am understanding why 1st Crudit don't want to send a statement of account as the amount NR said they sold it for is less than my current balance after paying 1st Crudit for 2 years!

 

So although it would appear that they have an enforcable agreement the amount is seriously not adding up and the date it was sold varies by a year.

 

If they fail to send me a statement of account and illegible t&c's, although they have provided a potential enforcable agreement, is the account still in dispute???

Edited by Tartan Barty
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Thank you The GodMother, much appreciated

 

OK so 1st Crudit have replied to my latest letter above:

 

They have sent through another copy of the first page of the agreement which is crystal clear. They have also sent through a 'edited'(!) copy of the supposed back page of the agreement which is illegible! Oh an edited copy, Just how is a edited copy going to help them.

 

The covering letter gives me 4 options: 4 i would demand none.

1. To confirm that the signature on the agreement is mine and then they will send through 'a complete copy of the relevant document' did i just see a pink elephant?? What ever u do dont do that.

2. If its not my signature, to send them a copy of my signature (yeah right) yep when i go loopy i will just until then NO CHANCE

3. If I have lived at the address mentioned if not where and when As above.

4. If I believe it's fraud then I should go to the police. Thanks for that wonderful piece of advice.

 

So they have sent me an edited version of my agreement and the second page is unreadable. What should I do now? (to remind everyone the front page does seem to be an enforcable agreement) Yes but they have admitted now it is edited and this means stuff missing. Just thank them for the letter and tell them u are still waiting for the CCA until you notify them further the account is in dispute.

 

I also recieved a letter from Northern Rock (the OC) stating that they sold the account to 1st Crudit a whole year after the date stated in 1st Crudits letter. Curiously the NR letter came from 1st Crudit as the address and reference number was the same but dated 21 May 2008!!! The NR letter also states the balance when sold and this is several hundred pounds less than 1st Crudit put in their letter! I think I am understanding why 1st Crudit don't want to send a statement of account as the amount NR said they sold it for is less than my current balance after paying 1st Crudit for 2 years! well thats good. They are now saying they are a different company oh well this should be challenged as according to the letter they had no rite to chase u until 7 days ago.

 

So although it would appear that they have an enforcable agreement the amount is seriously not adding up and the date it was sold varies by a year.

 

If they fail to send me a statement of account and illegible t&c's, although they have provided a potential enforcable agreement, is the account still in dispute???

 

I say yes as u cant read the T&CS as they have not provided any.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Thank you again GodMother!

 

Right I have done some digging and have been surprised by the results!

 

I now believe that the Northern Rock letter is from 1st Crudit. The person that signed the letter has been on maternity leave sinec Nov 07! The person that has replaced her knows nothing about this letter and has asked for a copy so that he can speak to 1st Crudit. I don't think I will bother. The letter has the standard 1st Crudit barcode on with their reference and talks about the client. I guess this is what we come to expect from this shower of sh*t!

 

So I have drafted a nice simple letter

 

Thank you for your recent letter, which was undated, the contents of which has been noted.

On XX/XX/XX, I sent a Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77-79 request for a true copy of my credit agreement, with the prescribed payment, a current and fully up-to date statement for this account and a signed true copy of the deed of assignment.

You have failed to comply with my request.

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 is very clear what your obligations are with regard to the above request and failure to comply with this, results in the account being in dispute.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

Failure to supply the required documentation requested is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours Faithfully,

 

Any comments?

 

(PS the phone calls have started again! I feel some phone fun coming!!)

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If you honestly believe that Worst Credit have concoted this document themselves then that is a serious allegation and one which needs proper investigation. I would suggest a formal complaint to TS and 1st. If you do not think this is a copy of a document you signed then you should ask them if this is a photocopy of your original CCA or one which they have costructed. If they do go down the court route the will need the ORIGINAL

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Thanks for that ODC. I wasn't talking about the agreement it was the assignment letter from NR that concerns me. The amounts, dates and style just don't add up. This along with the fact that the person who supposedly wrote it is on maternity leave!

 

Do you think I should still go to TS? (Forget that already have and TS will be on the case next week for fraud!)

Edited by Tartan Barty
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Most assignment letters seem to come from the DCA with the pretence that they are from the OC. With the facts you have to hand regarding this supposed letter of assignment I would certainly contact TS. DCAs will never show you the actual deed of assignment because it contains sensitive commercial information such as how much they bought the debt for. However if it went to court the judge could demand to see it.

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Hi

I too have requested CCA and not recieved them and i am unclear what to do next. Do i send the complaint letter i thought there was a letter to say they had commited a criminal offenceto send.. Please be gentle my first attempt at the forum!

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You do nothing. You have made a LEGAL request which Worst Credit are obliged to comply with. If they fail to do so and demand payment you MUST report them to the OFT, TS and your MP

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  • 3 weeks later...

Recieved a letter from the Co-op yesterday after I complained about the lack of agreements. They say they sent the stuff out but don't know why I didn't get it so they have sent it again!!

 

The NR credit card that they took over has only an application form with none of the prescibed terms so that good news and there are charges on the account.

 

The Smile loan has an agreement which looks enforcable except that it mentions t&c's overleaf which haven't been included.

 

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk222/Tartan_Barty/SmileCCA.jpg

 

Can anyone see anything wrong with it???

Edited by Tartan Barty
picture was too small to see
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The prescribed terms are there but check the calculations. They have to send you the Terms and Conditions and statements showing what has been paid and what still requires to be paid, so they haven't fulfilled your CCA request. The Co-op did this to me and eventually admitted in writing that they didn't have what they called "full agreements". They have since passed it on to a DCA and had it passed back to them and I have heard nothing from them since.

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My Co-Op situation is the same, old NR Account and just the application form, not paid anything for over a year, got a letter back in September advising they are sorry it isn't what I was expecting but look forward to hearing from me about what I am going to do next. Well since then I have done nothing but still get the computerised statements each month with charges and interest on with note that the situation is serious, apart from that they have not pursued me in any way and we are talking over £10k ...... we shall see

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Have checked the APR using Dualcalc and it looks OK. It does mention T&C's overleaf so have sent a letter saying they have supplied those. I also asked them to confirm if they have the original or if it a digital copy. If its a digital copy then they must prove compliance with BSI DISC PD0008:2004 – Legal Admissibility and Evidential Weight of Information Stored Electronically (thanks rory!) so we will see waht comes back!

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Right....update!

 

I have just spoken to my local TS who I made a complaint against Worst Crudit. They are interested in pursuing a number of points (I am not going to go into detail as we know who will be reading this!). They want to pass on the info and recomendations to the OFT and Worst Credits local TS. BUT if I agree they will then contract Worst Credit to ask them their side.......call me cynical but my intial thoughts are that nothing will happen except Worst Crudit will produce more suspect documentation that will satisfy the authorities and nothing else. They will then go for court action etc.

 

What do I do??

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Barty you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The only way we can put a stop to the dubious activities of this shower is to report their wrongdoings to the appropriate authorities. Eventually someone will decide upon their fitness or lack of it to hold a consumer credit licence. If they produce dodgy documents to TS thats them in the deep doo doo. If TS say they are ok you can rest assured that you will get advice on here from suitably educated people as to why they do not comply with th rules. GO FOR IT

 

Hit them where it hurts!!!! a swift kick up the profits.

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Yes Barty. Worst Credit regularly visit this site to glean information. Treat them like mushrooms and feed them on shi*e.

 

 

Be wary of PMs. Just speak to those you can trust we wouldnt want the enemy getting wind of your plans;)

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Yes, please do complain, TS explained to me that whereas the OFT tended not to look at DCA licenses on a regular basis, they are now taking a much keener interest and if they get enough complaints - will act. If you're worried about signing the oft permission form, vary your signature.

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