Bailiff removed car which is on hire purchase

[MissDivaLyriq]

Hi, could you advise me, yesterday morning my car was clamped by Task Enforcement Bailiff between 5am and 8am. When I left my home in the morning and saw the clamp I called the number on the warning notice and advised the bailiff I would return in the afternoon from university with the money to pay pcn ( congestion charge). The bailiff however advised he wanted full amount of 856.42 ( debt was 200.44!) to which I repeated I would have 200 by the end of the day. I also advised the car is on hire purchase.

When I returned home last night, the car was no longer there, to which I called the bailiff to inquire why when i had agreed to pay, to which he claims I had stated I would not.

 

Now I have contacted my finance company, who have sent over a copy of my hire purchase agreement to Task Enforcement, and also contacted the bailiff to advise he unlawfully removed my vehicle, but am being told all checks were done and if I want my car back I must pay £856.42.

 

Please advise if they can do this and how I can get my car back, as I have no intention of paying that ridiculous amount.

 

Thank you,

 

Miss D.

[ims21]

Hi

 

I have moved your thread to the Bailiff forum where the guys will be happy to help as soon as they are available.

[reallyinthecrap]

As you say, they have unlawfully removed something. Theft. The vehicle does not belong to you, it belongs to the HP company

 

Personally I would report it to the police as stolen informing them who has stolen it.

 

I would also ask the HP company to report it to the police as stolen.

 

The bailiffs should return the vehicle ASAP!!

[josephbloggs]

You need to ascertain some important points.

How much is the vehicle worth?

How much is left on the finance?

Are you sure its finance and not a personal loan?

You have already said how much is outstanding in your post.

So typically a vehicle in average condition with no documents or keys will fetch approx 25% of its actual guide price at auction.

Crutially here will the sale of your vehicle based on the above fetch and clear the remainder of your finance AND amount outstanding to the bailiffs.

If it will clear the both then i am of the opinion that the bailiffs can take the car. If not then they dont really have any business taking the car.

[reallyinthecrap]

i was under the impression that when a car is on HP you don't own it until the very last payment is made...???

[postggj]

this is ridiculous going on how much the car is worth to settle and finance agreement

 

if the vehicle is secured on any sort of finance agreement besides a personal loan agreement, the vehicle belongs to the finance company, you need to tell the bailiff that return the car with immediate effect or you will be applying through the courts for a return of goods order at full cost to the baliff company

 

contact the bailiff company direct, not the bailiff, i would send by email with a read receipt

[brassnecked]

i was under the impression that when a car is on HP you don't own it until the very last payment is made...???

Legally it doesn't but wiith a high value motor, the bailiff will argue that he can sell it and pay off the outstanding finance and his fees, the main debt will not be cleared, most likely.

 

This one smacks of the bailiff using the Brothers Grimm book Of bailiff Lore. Report vehicle stolen to police and also advise finance co that the car has been unlawfully removed, and can they also report Task Enforcement to the police, who will likely listen to them rather than fob it off as civil.

[lamma]

Record and and all future phone calls with the Bailiff. Did you record the previous ones perchance ?

[reallyinthecrap]

Legally it doesn't but wiith a high value motor, the bailiff will argue that he can sell it and pay off the outstanding finance and his fees, the main debt will not be cleared, most likely.

 

wow. i know you know your onions but surely they don't get away with that do they?

 

if it's on HP, it belongs to the HP company until its fully paid for, so surely, at the moment, it's theft, and if they sell it, it is handling stolen goods?

 

as i say, i know you have much deeper knowledge in this area than me. and i genuinely bow to that.

[postggj]

I am of the opinon that the only way a baliff can sell a vehicle with outstanding finance on it is with the permission of the finance company, the vehicle does not belong to the debtor, or baliff. The finance company hold full tital

 

I stand to be corrected if i see statutory legislation that allows them to conduct this course of action which is based on statutory legislation, not hearsay or any sort of personal implied opinion

[brassnecked]

wow. i know you know your onions but surely they don't get away with that do they?

 

if it's on HP, it belongs to the HP company until its fully paid for, so surely, at the moment, it's theft, and if they sell it, it is handling stolen goods?

 

as i say, i know you have much deeper knowledge in this area than me. and i genuinely bow to that.

 

Technically it is theft and OP should send copies of the agreement to council and bailiffs, who should then return the car however, the likes of JBW and Jacobs will try this one, and have done so in the past. I don't doubt task enforcement pull this stunft also, as they have in OPs case.

 

There is an old thread on here where JBW were threatening just this, taking a car on HP and flogging it. now as oldbill will confirm, JBW aren't the sharpest chisel in the box. I don't doubt that Task Enforcement are equally dense.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?263032-can-bailiff-take-car-on-hp-finance

[reallyinthecrap]

its a tricky one. if you think that the only person that owns the item is the HP company. then they are the only people to report it stolen?

 

but i still think seizing vehicles based on the name on the V5, live from a feed from DVLA, which only actually tells you the registered keeper is being abused.

 

the dvla data does not prove who owns something?

[brassnecked]

its a tricky one. if you think that the only person that owns the item is the HP company. then they are the only people to report it stolen?

 

but i still think seizing vehicles based on the name on the V5, live from a feed from DVLA, which only actually tells you the registered keeper is being abused.

 

the dvla data does not prove who owns something?

 

Exactly, this is why it is important to get copies of agreement to council and bailiffs ASAP, and inform Finance company so they can kick the bailiffs butt.

[postggj]

i am not sure but is their not some code of practice or legislation that states the baliff has to do some sort of HPI check before removing a vehicle rather than a check from DVLA to confirm who has good tital to the vehicle

 

dont quote me though, i realy do not know

[brassnecked]

i am not sure but is their not some code of practice or legislation that states the baliff has to do some sort of HPI check before removing a vehicle rather than a check from DVLA to confirm who has good tital to the vehicle

 

dont quote me though, i realy do not know

Common sense would say they should check, but bailiffs are out of control, and many from the likes of Task Enforcement, JBW, and marstons think they are above the law, and will do as they please ultra vires the regulations. marstons do a nice line in assaulting debtors and innocent thied parties alike, iin pursuit of HMCS fines for example, one woman in Plymouth was seriously injured and ended up in hospital, after being assaulted by a marstons bailiff, and she was not even the debtor.

 

MissDivaLiriq how much is the car worth?

 

Hope oldbill looks in on this one

Edited February 20, 2013 by brassnecked

[lookinforinfo]

Did you know that the bailiffs were due? Was the Congestion Charge originally from TFL or the Council. Whichever one it is, they are responsible for the actions of their bailiffs-so let them know and that

you will escalate matters to the Court if you do not get your car back pronto.

[tomtubby]

It may not seem important to you but could you pst back with details of the precise amount of the fees that have been charged.

 

Also, I do not wish to appear judgmental but is there a reason why you had not paid the PCN to Transport for London? For instance, had you moved address...appealed the PCN to the local authority etc etc.

[MissDivaLyriq]

the car is definitly on hire purchase, and the amount left on finance is just under £1000.

[MissDivaLyriq]

Right now the car is worth around £2500.

[MissDivaLyriq]

Common sense would say they should check, but bailiffs are out of control, and many from the likes of Task Enforcement, JBW, and marstons think they are above the law, and will do as they please ultra vires the regulations. marstons do a nice line in assaulting debtors and innocent thied parties alike, iin pursuit of HMCS fines for example, one woman in Plymouth was seriously injured and ended up in hospital, after being assaulted by a marstons bailiff, and she was not even the debtor.

 

MissDivaLiriq how much is the car worth?

 

Hope oldbill looks in on this one

 

The car is worth around £2500.

[MissDivaLyriq]

It may not seem important to you but could you pst back with details of the precise amount of the fees that have been charged.

 

Also, I do not wish to appear judgmental but is there a reason why you had not paid the PCN to Transport for London? For instance, had you moved address...appealed the PCN to the local authority etc etc.

 

The non payment of the pcn was due to my not receiving the initial fine, my flat is part of a house conversion, and there are three doors with numbers 1, b and the final one, mine, doesnt have a letter. Unfortunatly, one of my neighbor's is a recluse and every once in a while will deliver mail that the mail man drops in her box by accident. I was prepared to pay the surcharge ( 180) and even offered to pay the fee Task Enforcement had requested which stood at £200.44. But the bailiff decided to take the car all the same.

[MissDivaLyriq]

Record and and all future phone calls with the Bailiff. Did you record the previous ones perchance ?

 

No, I did not, really wish I had, as I was on the train whilst speaking with him. But I did make it clear to him the car was on HP. He hung up and like I said, when I returned home the car was gone. I did call the police who at first couldn't locate the car, but then found it in the system as being in the pound.

[MissDivaLyriq]

Exactly, this is why it is important to get copies of agreement to council and bailiffs ASAP, and inform Finance company so they can kick the bailiffs butt.

 

The finance company contacted Task Enforcement and sent them a copy of my credit agreement, however Task Enforcement are now stalling, saying they have to investigate.

[lookinforinfo]

It would be difficult to prove that you had not received all the notices from TFL or so much so that you were unaware of any of their notices.

What has your finance Company said about the bailiffs taking their car?

Edited February 21, 2013 by lookinforinfo

[tomtubby]

Given your explanation above regarding the reason why the PCN was unpaid, it would seem that you should have grounds in which to file an Out of Time witness statement. This should be a TE7 & TE9. All enforcement will then cease.

 

Can you post back with details of the fees that the bailiff charged.

 

PS: The position with a vehicle on Hire Purchase is that a bailiff can only seize goods BELONGING TO THE DEBTOR. Furthermore, a bailiff may ONLY seize goods that he intends to sell. I am at a loss to understand how a bailiff company intends to sell a vehicle that is subject to Hire Purchase.