@santanderbankgb Bounced Cheque - Cause for Action for Damages? ** VICTORY IS MINE **

[madpriest]

@bankfodder - Thanks

 

I wasn't able to get to the court yesterday as I had two pressing pastoral issues to deal with.

 

I will not leave it open as per your suggestion but fix it.

 

£4.5K is not, IMHO, stretching it. It's an accepted fact that bouncing a cheque when there are funds available

is defamation. For General Damages I'm not sure that you even have to prove them. I know that you have to

prove the quantum in special damages and there are cases where the claim for special damages for bounced cheques

was thrown out of court.

 

That particular case (I think it was Khopranhor v Woolwich Building Society) --- the guy lost his claim for special damages,

but even as a sole trader he got £1k plus the value of the cheque - in his case around £500 so he got £1.5K

 

If we take the £1k per cheque bounced, + the value of the cheques we come to around £3.3K and I'm adding

£1.2K for Christmas ---- Seriously a bounced cheque from the Church of England has got to be worth more

that a Sole Trader ---

 

Laters

[BankFodder]

Great - those are the sorts of arguments which a judge will listen to.

[madpriest]

"I went down to the County Court ... my N1 in my hand ..."

 

But they wouldn't take it.

 

"We don't take money claims any more. You either have to send it to a central processing

unit in Salford or MCOL"

 

Great - You either have to send a cheque, or postal order (add 10%)

or send a letter and they will call you back to get your card number.

(Really well organised!!)

 

MCOL only takes around 1500 characters so no long POC's for them.

 

So I guess its in the post !!

 

Bugger!

 

We need a sticky for the new County Court Arrangements

[madpriest]

Well - after the initial hiatus and the Christmas holidays the new county court system

sum into place and my N1 has been delivered to Santander.

 

I've got a Notice of Issue

 

Now lets see what they come back with in 28 days.

 

My guess is that they will fight this because they dont want to be seen to lose a BCOB case

 

Laters ...

[madpriest]

Sits twiddling thumbs for 28 days

[madpriest]

Well they have till Friday 25th to file an acknowledgemt. I am assuming that they will at the last minute

and then defend the claim. (I am not sure that they will want a full BCOB hearing - however they could 'pay me off' to make me

go away.

 

My question and I'm sure its answered somewhere. Assuming we go to court, what constitutes the 'bundle' I have to prepare?

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

We can sort out the bundle after they have filed their defence.

If they don't file an acknowledgement by the deadline, then make sure that you apply for judgment, instantly afterwards.

 

It will take a few days for the judgment to register - but after that we will move quickly onto the next step.

 

I can't remember - did you ask for a fixed sum? or did you leave it to the court to decide?

[BankFodder]

Hang on a minute, when did you issue the claim?

Surely 14 days have passed now?

[madpriest]

What with the Christmas closure, the "Notice of Issue" shows that it is deemed to be served on 11th January.

They say that Santander have until 25th to acknowledge.

 

I guess I can call the court on the afternoon of 25th and if no ackowledgement registered with their system

then I can send a Request for Judgment to hit them first thing Monday.

 

Having said that i can't imagine them not fighting it. If they DO miss the date, then

it's likely to be the law of cock-up rather than deliberate.

 

We'll see

....

[BankFodder]

Yes - but if you get a judgment it will have good embarrassment value and good chuckle value for us.

 

They will have to apply for a setaside which will be a bit of fun.

 

Did you leave the award to the discretion of the court?

If you did then as soon as you have got your judgment, you will have to ask for a hearing to assess the award. You will need a form N244 to do this.

[madpriest]

Thanks for that

 

This is the paragraph from the POC

 

Quote

And the claimant claims £131.00 compensation for actual loss plus damages not exceeding £4500 for inconvenience and damage to reputation to be decided by the court plus interest pursuant to s.69 County Courts Act 1984

Endquote

 

Do I still require that special form??

[BankFodder]

Yes. You get judgment but you won't be able to enforce the judgment. Instead you will have to apply for a hearing to decide on quantum.

 

They will apply for a setaside and will try to buy you off.

 

There setaside may say that they haven't received the claim. There is normally a presumption in favour of a setaside.

 

Under the rules they should apply for a setaside by filing an N244 and paying a fee. However, I have noticed that they often simply send a letter and the courts often accept this as a valid application. It is extremely unfair.

 

The best you can do is apply for judgment the instant that you are allowed to.

Then ask for a hearing to assess damages immediately.

Call the court a couple of times a week to see if they have received an application to setaside.

If they have received a letter then you should immediately write to the court and object that they have not applied using proper channels and stating their grounds correctly.

If the court is decent, they will reject the letter and tell the bank to do it properly.

 

Because you are a church and not an individual, they will try to have the case heard at their local court - not yours.

You will have to counter that the court should either be your local court or the court which is local to your branch with whom, you have the account.

 

At some pint the bank may try to buy you off - they would normally want the setaside first.

You will have to decide whether you want to stick to principle and insist on the judgment. I think that you are entitled to say that as it is a matter of reputation, you must have your judgment.

[madpriest]

Thanks

 

The form N244 as an application for a hearing to assess the award is the same form N244 for them to apply

for set aside. Is this correct? If so, any ideas on how I should prepare the form for my application for hearing for assessment?

 

Cheets

[BankFodder]

N244 is an application for anything.

 

We'll work out the form when you get the judgment.

I'm sure it won' be difficult

[madpriest]

@bankfodder

 

You'll recall that in my post #10 I gavve you this link

 

http://fs.practicallaw.com/5-504-4195#a283174

 

It's now been blocked - you need to be a member

 

Did you print this resource out or save it?

 

 

Thanks

[madpriest]

An interesting development today.

 

The end date for Santander to acknowledge claim is tomorrow 25/1/2013.

 

What with the snow and the late post, I decided to call the court today

to see whether any acknowledgement had been registered.

 

As of today, nothing.

 

I confirmed that as of 'close of play' tomorrow, I can proceed to judgement although I was

informed that even after tomorrow they can still acknowledge so I have to get my judgement in quick.

It's a case of the first one entered into the system.

 

I also raised the question about an N244 for a Hearing to Assess the Award.

I was told that it was 'not needed' for the following reason:

 

If my claim had asked for damages at the discretion of the court it would have been

entered as 'unspecified amount' and the appropriate fee for a claim for 'unspecified amount'

would have been asked for and then it would need a hearing to assess.

 

In my case I have asked for a maximum of £4500 at the discretion of court

and it is this amount that has been entered as a 'fixed amount'.

 

It was explained that I can proceed without a hearing.

 

Good News indeed. I await tomorrow and I'll call the court around 4:00pm to see whether

any acknowledgement. If not my request for judgement goes off my special delivery

for first thing Monday.

 

Fun and Games eh??

 

I'm still going to prepare my case on the basis that they will eventually fight it

and I need some idea of what the bundle should contain, in what order etc

 

Thanks and regards

[BankFodder]

Yes, that is right. Even at the expiry of the deadline they can still defend. This is why I advised you to apply for judgment ASAP - to lessen their chances of getting in.

Even when you have applied, if the court notices - before the judgment is granted - that a defence/acknowledgement has been filed, they will probably refuse the judgment.

 

So far as their other advice to you goes, the court is wrong. The claim is for an unspecified amount and the court made an error in accepting it. It should have been a part 8 claim. The courts often make this error.

 

We shall have to see what form the judgment takes before deciding the next step.

Of course it would be very satisfying to put the bailiffs in straight away. Quite a laugh in fact.

Are you allowed to say prayers for this kind of thing?

[madpriest]

"The Rain Falls on the Just as well as the Unjust"

 

and

 

"Whatever thy right hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might" aka "smack 'em hard"

 

[madpriest]

Bugger

 

I've just noticed that I issued the claim against Santander at their POBOX address used for complaints.

 

It's not likely that we can enforce against that is there? Certainly cant send the Bailiffs around to a POBOX?

 

Should I make application to change the address?

 

I was just about to apply for judgement today !!

[BankFodder]

That's a bad mistake.

If you change the address, you will effectively be amending the claim - and you will have to begin again with service, 14 day period etc.

You will have to amend by means of an N244 which will cost you £60 - plus it will take a couple of weeks for the judge to approve the amendment - before you can serve the claim again.

 

If you apply for judgment, they will apply for a setaside and get it very easily. However, at least they will definitely have received the summons and they will know that it is serious.

 

I'm not sure whether the application for the bailiff's warrant allows you to indicate an address other than the service address. - In fact I have had a look and the application form allows you to put in a different address. http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=555

 

I think that I would just go for it. Put the address of your local branch for enforcement.

See what happens.

[madpriest]

Request for Judgement sent today as no acknowledgement of service.

 

The idea of a couple of heavy bailiffs entering my local branch of Santander

to seize their property brings a smile to my face

[BankFodder]

Yup. We put the bailiffs into the RBS at Camden town once and organised a little welcome for them.

 

It was very funny

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?59671-RBS-amp-Bailiffs

 

http://metro.co.uk/2009/10/26/the-bank-charge-bailiffs-232065/

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-430129/Customer-sends-bailiffs-seize-banks-computers.html

[BankFodder]

Here's another one we did

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6276214.stm

 

Those were the days.

How we laughed.

[madpriest]

Ok - Latest news from the court

 

Santander did not acknowledge claim.

 

Default Judgement Requested

 

Default Judgmenet GRANTED in the total amount >£4600

 

What Next - Do I have to move fast/ Send the Baliffs in before they get a chance to set aside?

 

Totally amazed at the lacksadasical attitude of Santander.

It could be that they really didnt receive it but its strange that two other letters sent to the same address

elicited a response

 

Happy Daze

[BankFodder]

on my phone inn a car.

 

Put in bailiffs now.

Use local branch address. Don't hang around