Council going for liability order for payments they are already getting?

[Hacked_Off]

Basically my mother has had leters fom rossendales saying "pay 800 within 7 days or we sent round the balifs" shes was away in egypt when the letter came (last week) there was a letter in this to make installments that had to be signed and filled in by her also they were asking for proof of income ie bank statements. I didnt have access to this info so didnt send anything. Seems a bit odd though a balif asking for bank statements?! also on the letter they reckon they have been round twice and charged for the pleasure. What would my first steps be? Im thinking send a letter to the balifs asking for a breakdown of al charges and proof of a signed walking possesion order? and a letter to the council direct asking for a total amount owed and offering instalments? any input appreciated. Im worryin about my two brothers. My mum is the kind of person who will just cave and let them in or pay up in full includin charges:evil:

[echowitch]

What you've suggested is probably the best move. If you use the letter template I've done (back a page or two) for the Council letter and edit it accordingly. If the bailiffs are claiming for visits that you can prove they haven't done, (i.e. people were in the house at the time, and no letters were posted through the door,) then put that in the letter that they are claiming for visits that never happened.

 

In the letter to the Bailiffs tell them that you are liasing directly with the Council and that they are to pass the account back to the Council immediately without taking any further action. Also, as you've noted above, ask them for a breakdown of the charges and proofs, and tell them its because you believe that their figures are incorrect and you will be passing them to the council. If you are concerned that they will turn up soon, ring the Bailiffs office and tell them that you are talking with the Council directly and they need to pass the entire account back to the Council.

[Hacked_Off]

thanks

[Hacked_Off]

Not sure if this is the right place but yeah. I recieved a notice telling me iowed £98 council tax. The letter said to "come in to make an arrangment if u cant pay in full". So i made an appointment and went in. I was told to "let it go to court theres nothing we can do" . I asked why it says on the letter to cme i to make an arrangment "its a standard letter" :confused::confused:

 

So today ive recieved the following:

 

" Total Due : £881.93

 

The city council has complained that you have not paid the aove amount Outstanding in respect of council tax levied by the city council.

 

you are theefore summoned to appear before magistates court to show why you have not paid the said amount and why a liability order should not be made against you.If you do not appear you will be proceeded against as if you had appeared and be dealt with according to la.

 

If the amount outstanding plus the cost of the summons is paid before the day of the court hearing al proceedings will be stopped. If not a liability order will be made againt you by the court and you will incur further charges of £12.00.

 

PLease read the enclosed leaflet carefully.

 

I wish to know how much you can afford to pay to clear your outstanding debt to the City council. I will take into account your income and essential outgoings in agreeing an amount you will be expected to pay. If you are unable to attend at my office or experience difficulty in contacting my staff by telephone please complete this statement of means to me at the address given over the page prior to the court hearing "

 

Im quite terrified by this. I recieved two seperate letters in te same envelope both with different amounts im supposed to pay each week. Ive been in several times and asked how much am i supposedto pay? and been told "its on the letter". Ive only just recieved the payment card ive asked for 7 times!!!!

[ploddertom]

If you've received 2 separate amounts it sounds as if you have more than 1 liability order against you. You need to contact the Council and ask:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have

2 - what periods of time they cover

3 - is it for more than 1 address

4 - how much is owing on each one

5 - how much is outstanding on each one

 

The problem you may face is that if you make no payment then they will pass it to the Bailiffs for enforcement and that will possibly subject you to more expense and hassle.

 

PT

[Hacked_Off]

The first letter was for 98 and said if it was not cleared in 7days the the ful amount for the year would need to be paid. I did go in like it stated on the first letter to "make an arrangement" but i was basically told to go away!!

[Hacked_Off]

Ive been having some trouble with my council. they sent me a "final demand" out of the blue for 60.00 i paid it and then got another leter dsaying as it was unpaid theyare charging me etc and taking it to court. they have since sent me a break down of payments saying the amount wasnt paid but its on the breakdown. ive been paying 60 a month which to my knowledge was this years which is 13 a week ten the extra goes off my arrears from last year. i got a counciller onto the phone to them and there saying what ive been paying has only been coming off last years. they are council taxing me on me working 35 hours a week. ive been doing 2 jobs at 30 hours a week for 4 months. they said theyhave adjusted on the system the hours im working but not reduced the bill?? then today i get home from work to find a hand delivered letter from rossendales:

 

TAKE NOTICE that by virtue of an authority given to me by the magistrates court in a liability order dated jul 1,2009 i have this day re-attended with a view to seizing goods for debt and costs owing to city council as stated inthe liability order.AND TAKE FURTHER NOTICE that unless the said sum be paid , together with the expenses of this attendance within 5 days from the date hereof we will re attend with a view to seizure,removal and sale of goods, according to law.

 

client debt: 74.73

first visit fee: 24.50

Second visit fee:18.00

total 117.23

 

am i right in thinking these charges are not allowed? i have never recieved a copy of any "liability order". the council have said there taking me to court again on the 23rd. i have filled in the means form over a wek ago and not had a reply. i am curretly paying 60 a month. i have offered to pay 80 a month. this is the absolute most i can do. im getting letters from them left right and centre with different amounts and demands.:???::???::???:

[alfwithhair]

Will move this to Bailiffs section, you will get more help there.

[Hacked_Off]

cheers

[Hacked_Off]

im stressing big time:violin:

[Hacked_Off]

bump

[ploddertom]

Do you know how many Liability Oders the Council have against you, you must ring and ask them:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have

2 - how much each one is for

3 - what period of time each one covers

4 - the date each was awarded

5 - the date each was passed to the Bailiff for enforcement

 

PT

[Hacked_Off]

so far they have one order for july 09. and a possible one more which is due to got o court on the 23rd. the amount they have taken me to a dca for is seperate from those 2. Ive been on the phone to a councillor who is trying to get all th information and get rossendales off my tail.

[ploddertom]

so far they have one order for july 09. and a possible one more which is due to got o court on the 23rd. the amount they have taken me to a dca - don't understand dca's don't collect Council Tax - for is seperate from those 2. Ive been on the phone to a councillor who is trying to get all th information and get rossendales off my tail.

 

PT

[Hacked_Off]

well whoever rossendales are. must be a habit to assume dca. my bad.

[ploddertom]

For whatever reason it appears that the council have given the 2nd one to rottendales. All the more reason to find out when they passed it to the Bailiffs as there is a possibility they have been hanging on to it. By what you listed at the beginning they are already claiming to have made 2 visits!

 

PT

[Hacked_Off]

Yeah they are claiming two visits but only left proof of one visit. im not convinced they have been twice. My councillor has been on to the Council for me. He's actually been great. I offered to pay them 60 a month a while ago i was under the impression this was for this years and the arrears from last year. Turns out theyve just been taking the 60 a month from last years so i havnt actually paid anything from this year:-x. When i got the demand off them for 60.00 (on this years) i paid it 2 days later (l;uckily id just had some tax back) then i get a letter saying the payment had nt been recieved and they had included a mini breakdown of payments. The 60 was on the breakdown. The letter said he was unable to locate the 60.00 payment. apparantly im the only one who can see it on the break down. I asked them a few weeks ago for a breakdown of all payments ive made last year and this year. im yet to recieve this. do you think it would be a good idea to sar them? Heres whats the councillor has said to them:

 

Dear Cllr Makinson

Please see attached my response to your constituent Ms Rhodes.

A full statement of account had already been issued to her on 01/02/11.

Regards

 

(i am yet to rcieve this)

Dear Moira,

Ms Rhodes has been in touch with me today to complain that she has received a letter today from a debt collector with a view to seize goods. I was under the impression that this had been put on hold.

She has also been charged for two bailiff visits, when she has only received one. Yet another case of one of your bailiffs trying it on!!!

Ms Rhodes tells me that the most she can afford to pay is £100 a month, but would like the whole account to be brought back into the council as she can't afford to be making separate payments to the bailiffs on top of this figure.

Can you let me know if anything can be done?

Thanks

 

Dear Cllr Makinson

Please see enclosed a copy of a letter sent to Ms Rhodes earlier this month. This communication, referred to in my letter, advised of the account outstanding in respect of her previous address which had been issued to a bailiff to collect on our behalf. As this matter had already been brought to her attention, my recent letter only dealt with the query that she had raised with regard to why the recent Summons had been issued.

I will instruct the Bailiff to place the account on hold for two weeks to allow me to review the overall position and to check what costs have been incurred to date.

Regards

 

[Hacked_Off]

Also she says the matter has been brought to my attention before (the balif) which it hasnt. That letter through my door was te first ive heard!!

[knigget]

Hi Zarah I assume they have a court order to remove good to the value of the alleged Debt? I'm sure some of the fine folks here can advise you better than I can but , ensure any Bailiff coming to your home has the following... A signed warrant in wet ink of a Judge, not a clerk as that is unlawful. ask to see their licence of office and insurance certificate, A Bailiff must post a bond of £10,000 at the court which they work from and be in possession of public liability insurance. You DO NOT have to let a bailiff in to your home at any time, Even if a court order has been issued, If you are claiming a dispute on the debt and have made the protagonist aware of your disagreement, they are legally and lawfully in a state of estoppal, meaning while ever you rebut their claim against you ( you dispute it, and offer your reasons for doing so) they have no lawful right to come to your home, if they do so they are acting unlawfully and can have their licence to trade revoked and are actually committing the offence of "Demanding money with menaces".. That is my 2pence worth ..I'm sure someone with more experience can advise you better than I can..Try not to worry too much ..they have to abide by the law and if they don't you can sue them and get your property back..all the best Knigg's

Edit to add..;- If they are adebt collection agency.. just tell them that they are a third party interloper and you have no contract with them. you can rovoke the implied right to knock on your door by telling them so. They DO NOT HAVE THE LAWFUL RIGHT TO COLLECT ANYTHING FROM YOU. You have not consented to contract with those people, and as such you are not beholden to their contract with their employers..good luck.

Edited February 20, 2011 by knigget
addendum

[Hacked_Off]

well i have not seen a court order. But they posted a "walking possesion order" through my door with the cover letter for me to sign. obviosly i will not be doing so. cheers for the advice.

[Hacked_Off]

ill try and scan it up later

[knigget]

lol A walking possession order can only be issued and gained if you let them in your home to make a list of your possessions..at any time after you have let a bailiff into your home they can lawfully gain access as they see fit (with in reason..i.e. they can just walk in through any available Open access to your home) for the purpose of removing any goods on that list to the value of the proven debt. That's why you should never let them in in the first place.. If they sell the goods at a lesser value than the good are worth they are liable to you for recompense as this is called "distress"..Any goods removed by them must be sold at current market value, so they cannot take more goods and say they only sold them at a lower rate..

Edit to Add :- The best way to deal with them is to be nice but firm..Go outside and lock the door behind you, They cannot push past you to gain entry , they must be invited at this stage, It is illegal for them to put their foot in your door without your express permission..Don't be bullied by them. they are a debt collector and have about the same legal power as a Asda shelf stacker..smile and be nice..Advise them they are working against the law of the land and as such are liable for arrest if they try to gain entry to your home..

Edited February 20, 2011 by knigget

[Hacked_Off]

Well after several hundred letter , two councillors on there case and me thinking this was all sorted here we go again.

 

Two weeks ago i received yet another demand for payment from The Council for £75.57 despite me having an arrangement in place and not once missing a payment. I rang up and was told "the system cant handle me paying it twice a week" i informed her this was my pay frequency and the only way i can do it. This information was also told to the council in one of my many letter and was told it was fine. She went through the system and "transfer the money to were it should be" what I've paid off my current and off the arrears and "withdrew the demand". I was under the impression they had both been rolled into one to avoid such a situation arising but apparently not. After she transferred the money to "were it should be" i was then told for May i still owe £21.57. I informed her to look at the pay frequency before speaking to me like a debt collector i pay it every Tuesday/Friday seeing that the phone call was on Monday i wouldn't think it wouldn't take a genius to work that one out.

 

Also the matter of what money is going were came up. On my bill it states £13 to be paid a week(yet there system "cant handle" me paying weekly)yet she said it was £19 and could not explain why it had 1.gone up and 2. why i was not informed. The next day i paid the £21.57 and she told me to "start paying monthly as there system doesn't know were to put the money". Surely someone should be checking this sort of thing the "system" doesn't put it in an envelope and post it!!!!!! this call incidentally cost me £5 credit. Perhaps i should send them a summons for that!!!

 

This phone call was recorded.

 

Then today i receive yet.another.demand.for.payment.

 

This time for £31.57. they are having a laugh. I'm Doing everything they tell me to and they still get it wrong!?!??!?!?

 

The girl on the phone said the £21.57 was the final payment for may. Going on when i paid that a full months payment is due on the 14th June "£76 for the current £20 for the arrears" which i have put away and will pay on that date. I'd love to know how i am supposed to keep on top of this when they clearly have no idea what they are doing.

 

I'm going to seek some legal advice on this (I work in a solicitors) in my view there actions are harassment and they are responsible for there bailiffs action which were flagrant disregards of the OFT guidelines. incidently ive not heard a word from Rottendales since i sent them i stern letter telling them to bog off. BUT im wondering if those charges have been added to my bill...

 

Also last time i was in contact i asked them for all the information they hold on me. This again unpredictably was not supplied. All that was supplied was an illegible breakdown with no means of me deciphering WHAT they were breaking down. I plan on sending them a Subject Access Request (assuming the same goes for the council as would say a bank?) along with the £10 fee.

 

AND I STILL HAVEN'T GOT A BIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hacked_Off]

I have asked for this information several times and not recievd it.

[Hacked_Off]

Oh and i have been onto my mp(Luciana Berger) but to date i have not recieved a single reply.

 

Yet when i sent her an email thanking her for not helping they gave me a snotty call 10 seconds later!!!