Battleaxe does MBNA

[Cornucopia]

It's tomorrow I talk with BW, it was last wednesday i was supposed to phone him, but waited the extra day so I knew the Section 85 default notice would have arrived.

 

No cheque in the post today regarding the non-compliance, then again there is still no letter regarding the loan account either and they promised that would be actioned when I made a payment last Friday. I am honourting my part of the agrreement, they haven't honoured their's yet and they claim the letter was posted on the 17th January 2007. methinks they are still playing games. Is this cynical?

 

Sorry B, I didn't realise! You are not being cynical at all! I suspect that they are scrabbling around deciding what to do with your Section 85 Default and crawling through the chambers of Chester Business Park desperately trying to find your agreement.

 

What do you reckon??!?!?!!

[Guest Battleaxe]

The original agreement only had kent's and my signatures on it. The bank had not signed it. Too bad, they did not send it when they issued the new cards.

[Cornucopia]

The original agreement only had kent's and my signatures on it. The bank had not signed it. Too bad, they did not send it when they issued the new cards.

 

Crikey, I missed that! How old was the agreement? Does that render it unenforceable if the bank didn't sign it????

 

We didn't get an agreement with new cards either! Hey ho!!

[Guest Battleaxe]

22 March 2002. They have x'd the PPI something which we did not notice until we queried the money being put on the card and then they cancelled it. Ther was also one year of card protection also.

[Cornucopia]

22 March 2002. They have x'd the PPI something which we did not notice until we queried the money being put on the card and then they cancelled it. Ther was also one year of card protection also.

 

Cheeky buggers! Goldfish did that to me actually, when I asked to see a copy of the agreement and where I had ticked to ask for PPI, they sent me a copy with a big black tick on it that had obviously just been put on there by one of their staff! Outrageous!! They're next on the list!

 

Mr Corn's MBNA card goes back to around 1996 so they need to do some serious digging for that agreement.

 

Can't WAIT to hear about your conv. with Mr Wareing!!!!

[iwannabedebtfree]

just found out i was issued a card by MBNA in june 2004, there was also another one prior to that but unable to confirm date as yet. have been following with interest your s85 argument Battleaxe, just sliding a draft together to slip in the post next week.

 

good luck battleaxe and cornucopia

[ladybird17]

Iwannabedebtfree - sent off my S85 letter to MBNA on Monday - it's posted on this thread somewhere, but if you want to take a look and can't find it, let me know. Good on yer!

[Guest Battleaxe]

Had a phone call with my favourite legal eagle at MBNA, they want to discuss my Section 85 and my claim for refund of charges. it has been set for 10.30am next Thurdsay. They trying to get our Credit Agreement together , they haven't managed to extrapolate our charges, I am making them do the work and checking to see if their figures correspond with mine. i might not have to get to the prelim stage.

 

Cheque arrived this morning for the non-compliace compensation. Didn't get the full claim, got my filing fees and costs for letter writing. I was gambling for for £100.00 a day in case it went to Court. i thiought by being reasonable with this, they will see that I just want back what is rightfully mine. it will be the Section 85 argument that will be interesting. I know what i want out that one, have done the figures and I want to find out how they plan to resolve it. They know I am serious about this. i bet there will be an offer without predjudice tacked on to it, as they don't want the £2500 fine. No use stating they follow industry standard either, that doesn't make it lawful.

[Cornucopia]

Had a phone call with my favourite legal eagle at MBNA, they want to discuss my Section 85 and my claim for refund of charges. it has been set for 10.30am next Thurdsay. They trying to get our Credit Agreement together , they haven't managed to extrapolate our charges, I am making them do the work and checking to see if their figures correspond with mine. i might not have to get to the prelim stage.

 

Cheque arrived this morning for the non-compliace compensation. Didn't get the full claim, got my filing fees and costs for letter writing. I was gambling for for £100.00 a day in case it went to Court. i thiought by being reasonable with this, they will see that I just want back what is rightfully mine. it will be the Section 85 argument that will be interesting. I know what i want out that one, have done the figures and I want to find out how they plan to resolve it. They know I am serious about this. i bet there will be an offer without predjudice tacked on to it, as they don't want the £2500 fine. No use stating they follow industry standard either, that doesn't make it lawful.

 

Battleaxe, I am about to PM you!

[iwannabedebtfree]

Battleaxe, can i run a s85 letter past you at some point? MBNA sent me a copy of my agreement this morning and i want to shove them with a s85 letter and see if we cant resolve the situation.

[Cornucopia]

Battleaxe, can i run a s85 letter past you at some point? MBNA sent me a copy of my agreement this morning and i want to shove them with a s85 letter and see if we cant resolve the situation.

 

Were you expecting that Iwanna? How long did it take them to respond to your CCA request? I am only mentioning S85 at the moment but will go the whole hog if necessary.

 

Battleaxe! You lead.......we'll follow!!!!

[iwannabedebtfree]

corn. it took them under 5 days! i was hoping to have them for a breach but ive worked out that in june 2004 i was re-issued with a card but no agreement came with it, just their usual terms n conditions. worked out they took 550.19 in interest as i have been on an arrangement to pay, and 1824.00 in payments. Im gonna see what Battleaxe turns up and when i am back in work on monday send off a letter to MBNA and see what they have to say for themselves, i may have got my charges refunded but im annoyed that they have not complied with legislation, anal as i may be, if i breeched legislation they would soon let me know!

[Cornucopia]

corn. it took them under 5 days! i was hoping to have them for a breach but ive worked out that in june 2004 i was re-issued with a card but no agreement came with it, just their usual terms n conditions. worked out they took 550.19 in interest as i have been on an arrangement to pay, and 1824.00 in payments. Im gonna see what Battleaxe turns up and when i am back in work on monday send off a letter to MBNA and see what they have to say for themselves, i may have got my charges refunded but im annoyed that they have not complied with legislation, anal as i may be, if i breeched legislation they would soon let me know!

 

That makes me hopeful actually as the CCA in my case expires tomorrow.

 

I would fire off the S85. If they didn't provide the agreement, they cannot enforce the debt as we all know.

 

You are right though that if any of us don't play by the rules, they are down on us like a ton of bricks.

 

Battleaxe has truly got them by the short 'n' curlies!

[progenic7]

Hi battleaxe,

 

im a looking and im a liking ;-)

 

muhahaha keep it up !

[progenic7]

Hi again battleaxe,

 

im sure you are fairly busy but if you get chance could you explain a couple of things for me, firstly i dont fully understand s85 and all its implications (where it applies and so on) could you expand ? im also claiming for PPI being missold and i distinctly remember them pushing it onto over the phone and fully assuring me that even though i was self employed at the time i was covered in all circumstances ! do you know if in my SAR they will send me the recording of said conversation as part of my personal data ?

 

thanks in advance hun

[Guest Battleaxe]

S 85, they are supposed to send you a copy of your agreement as well as terms and conditions

 

Please read the following

 

14 Credit-token agreements

 

(1) A credit-token is a card, check, voucher, coupon, stamp, form, booklet or other document or thing given to an individual by a person carrying on a consumer credit business, who undertakes—

 

(a) that on the production of it (whether or not some other action is also required) he will supply cash, goods and services (or any of them) on credit, or

 

(b) that where, on the production of it to a third party (whether or not any other action is also required), the third party supplies cash, goods and services (or any of them), he will pay the third party for them (whether or not deducting any discount or commission), in return for payment to him by the individual.

 

 

(2) A credit-token agreement is a regulated agreement for the provision of credit in connection with the use of a credit-token.

 

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of section 9(1), the person who gives to an individual an undertaking falling within subsection (1)(b) shall be taken to provide him with credit drawn on whenever a third party supplies him with cash, goods or services.

 

(4) For the purposes of subsection (1), use of an object to operate a machine provided by the person giving the object or a third party shall be treated as the production of the object to him.

 

this clearly defines a credit card as a credit token,

 

then if we look at section 85 itself:

85 Duty on issue of new credit-tokens

 

(1) Whenever, in connection with a credit-token agreement, a credit-token (other than the first) is given by the creditor to the debtor, the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it.

 

(2) If the creditor fails to comply with this section—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

(3) This section does not apply to a small agreement

 

 

The critical part here is subsection (1) which clearly states a copy of the EXECUTED agreement + any document mentioned in it. Section 85 will not apply for the first card issued as a copy of the agreement should be supplied under section 61.

 

It is well established now that the executed agreement is the signed agreement with all the relevent details completed.

 

As we know these companies bulk mail replacement cards and include either/or a blank generic copy of an agreement and latest T&C. This is NOT what the CCA states should be sent with it.

 

I believe this is why SI1983/1557 came into effect, so that fully signed copies of the agreement would not be 'lost in the mail' along with a nice shiny new card. Remember that devil chip'n'pin wasn't around then so a blank card and signature was valuable.

 

The section 85 debate really is that simple and I think it's very clear cut. Although I can promise the companies will argue for all they are worth. Every one of them has ignored the consequences of sec 85 for years and instead of following what is laid down in law they prefer to follow industry standards.

 

We all thought bank charges made big profits for them? well this has the potential if it becomes widespread knowledge to virtually put most of them out of business. Their profits come from Interest charged and they cannot enforce the agreement while in default so cannot apply any charges to the account, plus they also commit an offence.

 

This was written by The Terminator.

 

Hope this makes it simple for everyone.

 

NOTICE OF DEFAULT

Served under Section 85(1)

Of

The Consumer Credit Act (1974) as amended

Creditor: MBNA Europe Bank Limited

 

Account No:

You are duly notified that you a have been in default under the aforementioned section of the above Act since 1 November 2003

 

In order to correct this breach all interest payments made since 1 November 2003 must be consolidated.

 

To correct this, consolidation must be made within 1 month of this notice.

 

If the correction required by this notice is taken before the date of expiry of this notice then no further action will be taken in respect of the breach.

 

If the action required by this notice is not taken within 1 month of this notice then the default will be registered with a credit reference agency.

 

 

 

Notes under Section 85(2)

 

(a) The Creditor is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) If the default continues for one month the creditor commits an offence.

Signed

KENT SMITH

23 January 2007

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

Progenic, How to get a copy of the phone call and the missold PPI.

 

You will have to specifically ask for a copy of the phone call. They generally assume all want are the statements when you send off for the SAR - it's the way the request is worded.

 

I made sure that they knew I was after ALL documentation and exactly who they shared the information with, how it was shared and if anything was sent by email, how it was secured and the like. I am very specific when I do my SAR's. Maybe you will have send another letter and re-iterate you want the every thing they hold on you.

 

I worded my request this way:

 

 

I am now also requesting further details held by your organization and I would like to remind you have until 4pm 11 January 2007 to supply me with all the information I am requesting. The Information Commissioner has asked to be advised if I do not receive the data I have requested by this date.

 

I would be grateful if you would provide the following: -

• Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist between myself and your organisation, including copies of any documents you hold in support of same.
  
• Details of the identity of any individuals or organisations who have provided you with my personal information together with copies of any letters of instruction provided by them, or any contracts entered into between yourselves and the third party, and the relevant dates to which those contracts related.
  
• Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
  
• Full details and copies of any documents upon which you relied when you have provided my personal or financial information to any individual, organisation or third party.

• Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information.
  
• Full copies of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to myself.
  
• Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of same, and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.
  
• Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.
  
• Full hard copy print outs of any of my personal or financial information held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.
  
• Your registration number with the Information Commissioners Office.
  
• Your Consumer Credit License number.

Where reference to emails is given above, these emails should be taken from your email servers or backups / archives held in a magnetic or digital format. These emails may not be present on a user’s local system, and may require the assistance of your IT department / IT providers, who you should contact immediately for their provision.

 

Please confirm whether you hold a physical file with details of my personal and / or financial information. If so, please provide details and dates of any instance when this file has left your control, to whom it has been communicated, the method of transportation / communication e.g. Royal Mail, courier, by hand, electronically. Please provide a full copy of this file Where my physical file has left your offices, please provide details of any precautions taken to ensure that my information has not been lost, stolen, misplaced or made available to anybody who does not have authorised access, including those who would use my information for the purposes of identity theft, or registered with any credit agencies. Please also confirm whether any of the documents held within the physical file are computer generated.

 

Under S.40 of The Administration of Justice Act 1970, if you believe you have provided my information to any organisation, agent, or individual who could, or may have used it for unlawful purposes, you should contact me immediately, and provide full details of their identification and address, together with full details of any instructions you have provided to them. If you have forwarded or communicated my personal or financial information to any person, company, or organisation, please provide a copy of the authority, signed and dated by myself upon which you have relied prior to doing so. As requested above, you should provide copies on any such communications.

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1984 / 1998, as a Data Controller, you are responsible for the complete retraction of all information provided to any third party, should I request you to do so, and have a duty to myself to ensure that any personal or financial information I have provided to you is kept securely, and is only communicated to those to whom I have given my express permission / authority.

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10 to cover your fee. This is the same postal order you returned with your letter of the 2 January 2007. If you are unable to deal with this request, you should immediately forward it to the person within your organisation responsible for Data Protection. If you do not provide the information requested within the given time limits (final date 11 January 2007) under current Law, my complaints already registered with the Information Commissioners Office and the Office of Fair Trading, FSA and Financial Ombudsman will be escalated.

I will be filing in the County Court on the morning of 12 January 2007 for Non Compliance and damages, if I do not receive the documentation requested by 4pm on the 11 January 2007. A post marked envelope bearing the date of 11th January 2007 does not mean I have received the documentation, unless you have my my signature as having received it on the 11 January 2007.

For the purpose of your exercise I have enclosed the request you have sent to me with a copy of my passport for identification purposes. I have been informed by the Courts I do not have provide identification at all.

Might I remind you one County Court Judge is prepared to jail the Data Controller of the Royal Bank of Scotland for not providing information under the Subject Access Request and the stalling tactics used by the Data Controllers to buy time.

I might add the piece of paper you provided as a statement had Mr Smith as the named person. I am sure the County Court will view this as negligence on your part.

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance.

 

 

Yours sincerely

[progenic7]

lol

 

thanks battleaxe now thats what i call a complete reply.

 

things are sooo much clearer now, i do hope you dont mind im sure you have worked long and hard in putting the SAR together, but would it be ok if i borrowed a few lil segments of your SAR to use myself ?

 

;-)

[tamadus]

Do I detect my favourite Battleaxe gaining a fan club

 

Oh and I wrote that first bit not Terminator lmao

 

Just popped in to say hi

[Guest Battleaxe]

Oh Tam,

 

I am sorry, giving Term the credit, of course it was you. Please accept my apologies.

 

Progenic, I plagarised the SAR request stuff, added some of mine and this is the finished product. i weould say go for it, it works for me everytime and they hate it.

 

I am off to bed, had a couple of rough nights with kent's problem so am tired enough now, I might just sleep through all the moaning and groaning he does when he is asleep. I have told him, the cancer wont do him in, but my pillow will. I'm trying to work out the psi I will need to use.

[tamadus]

No problem Battleaxe, we are all in this together and we all plagarise each other letters etc in some way

 

Sounds like your having fun with MBUSA at the moment, I'll be starting on them when I get bored with GE Money LTSB and Barclaycard. I have this nagging feeling I need to mention something to MBUSA, now what was it .......... OH yes section 85

[iris14]

Hello

 

I am new to this and have read about MBNA with interest. My husband made a claim on the repayment protection 2 years ago, fair play they paid up!, however those little liars they employ at MBNA to him to still use his card as we still had to live and said that the insurance compay covered him up to £50,000 and would meet the minimum repayments, NOT SO. We have fallen into financial difficulty with him not being able to work at all and are now being constantly hassassed to pay the shortfall from the insurance payments. It does not matter how often we explain the situation, even sent in an Income & expenditure with medical evidence to show we were on the level. They couldn't give a damn. After reading through the forum I am going to have a go at claiming back the late payment charge (Inurance company does not pay on time and he gets the charge) the overlimit fee ( which would not have happened if it wasn,t for the wrong advise) and any interest on those charges.

 

I want to nail them to the wall!!!!!!

[tamadus]

Hello

 

I am new to this and have read about MBNA with interest. My husband made a claim on the repayment protection 2 years ago, fair play they paid up!, however those little (edited) they employ at MBNA to him to still use his card as we still had to live and said that the insurance compay covered him up to £50,000 and would meet the minimum repayments, NOT SO. We have fallen into financial difficulty with him not being able to work at all and are now being constantly hassassed to pay the shortfall from the insurance payments. It does not matter how often we explain the situation, even sent in an Income & expenditure with medical evidence to show we were on the level. They couldn't give a damn. After reading through the forum I am going to have a go at claiming back the late payment charge (Inurance company does not pay on time and he gets the charge) the overlimit fee ( which would not have happened if it wasn,t for the wrong advise) and any interest on those charges.

 

I want to nail them to the wall!!!!!!

 

Hi iris and welcome,

 

Just a couple of tips.

 

Please dont use any comment that could be considered libelous, then go read the FAQ's and get so you understand the proceedure we use and then follow it. Plenty of people will help and guide you.

 

Read some of the threads in the area or bank your interested in so you know what can happen.

 

Start a thread of your own in the appropriate forum, so you can keep it all together in one place and make it easier for us to help you.

[Guest Battleaxe]

Tam, Get that Section 85 in the post toot sweet. I want to see them squirm.

 

Now the latest twist to the tail.

 

yesterday, the post arrives, not one, not two, but three letters from MBNA, one handwritten and addressed to the MOTH, it is in reply to the Section 10 Notice sent way back when? Oh yes they can still process his data because he said so. Looks like another letter being fired back stating again, that in light of all the other discoveries, that permissin is withdrawn immediately and the complaint will go back to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

Next, two addressed to me. i open the first one. it informs me that loan number xxxxx has been finialaised. I know I drink strong tea (like my men), but this is silly, when did I have this loan, it isn't my current loan number, it sin't the first loan number- DUH!

 

Open second envelope lo and behold I have finalaised another fixed term loan different account number. This is getting silly.

 

Get on the O1224 number, after the security checks, explain what is going on, get put through to Dan in collections. what the F888888??? Explain everything, he checks the loan numbers, Yes that's right these loans of yours are finalised.

 

Dan listen to me, they are not my loans.

 

Dan - they are finalised that is what the letters are telling you.

 

Me: Dan can you put me through to someone who knows what they are talking about, I am put on hold for five minutes. it's Intrepid Dan back, painfully explaining to me that my loans are finalised. (Can I pput my hand through the phione and grab his neck?)

 

Me: Dan, I want to speak to someone who can sort this out, have MBNA given someone loans in my name, because these have never been my loans?

 

Dan: I can't, because I know nothing about this, you have finalised these loans and that is what the letters are telling you.

 

Half an hour of sheer frustration on my part and incomptetence on Mbusa's part.

 

I inform Intrepid Dan that I am going to notify Bill Wareing of this and get him to look into it and of course I will mention how helpful you have been and at your expertise of taking ownership of the problem. I hung up.

 

 

Two mysterious loans in my name - begs the question, did the internet fraud go further, I know there have been searches all over my credit file MBNA leaving footprints everywhere and have they realised that a , someone has stuffed up?

 

OR

 

Are there two other people out there waiting for notification that their loans have been finalised.

 

OR

 

Has that great computer which normally says NO thrown a cog?

 

Dontcha just love the MIB.

 

 

Iris14, good luck with your claim, be prepared for the games they play with us, start your own thread and we will watch with interest and try to help wehere we can.

 

It's a another sunny in this little corner of East Anglia and remember to buy the Sunday Mirror tomorrow as my fight with A & L, is being featured, I hope the photographer has been kind and I do hope I am not misreported for sensationalism. I am very cynical.

 

Autographs will cost £5.00 with 5% going to CAGgers, queue forms to the right.

 

 

Oh still no letter from friend Scott regarding the status of my loan, as promised. January 17 seems so long ago, is Royal Mail souveniring my fan mail from MBUSA? No, MBBUSA keep their word, are you saying they haven't written the letter?

[tamadus]

This lot are chicken feed to handle Axe so there is no great panic over the 85. I was planning to get charges etc back from all of them then hit the lot with sec 85 in one swoop but as you having so much fun with Mbusa I might get in on the act

 

My claims against them were very simple and straightforward, what you said to them to get them in such a twist? lmao

[Guest Battleaxe]

Tam,

 

I am wondering what is going on in the background at Chester. C'mon tighten the screws on them. i still love the reaction to my Sec 85 that i can't default the bank. Roll on next Thursday and I will find out what they are proposing. Nothing will accepted until it is in writing.