HSBC CCA & Loan Agreement Help

[Owain1]

Hello

 

I requested my HSBC CCA for a Credit Card I took out in 1993. T

hey have not got the agreement and have sent me the terms and conditions that would have been relevent at the time.

Is this enforcable in court?

 

I requested my loan agreement for a loan I took out in 2008.

They have sent me a payment statement and a copy of the online application.

The documents that I signed are missing. Is this enforcable in court?

 

I am happy to send a copy to somebody to look at.

 

Any help would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Bandit127]

The CC - no, not enforeceable. They may think they have satisfied your CCA request (err - probably not) but they will need the original if they go to court.

 

The loan - since it was post April 2007 then what you have been provided may well be enforceable. Did they provide a copy of the terms and conditions?

[Owain1]

Hi Bandit,

 

They produced a copy of terms and conditions, although this could have come from anywhere. No signature to seen and an open admission that they cannot find it.

 

Thanks

[Bandit127]

Hi Bandit,

 

They produced a copy of terms and conditions, although this could have come from anywhere. No signature to seen and an open admission that they cannot find it.

 

Thanks

Is this the CC or the loan? If the loan then the fact that they do not have the original doesn't mean much. They can produce a reconstruction in court.

[Owain1]

Yep, it's the loan. Looks like good news about CC though. They rejected a F&F offer on the CC of 20%. Should I bother again!!? I'm thinking of not paying now and offering a revised offer. Any advice?

[Bandit127]

If you are thinking of not paying the CC,

then you do so because you cannot verify the terms and conditions that apply to the account

and (therefore) cannot verify the amount owed.

The account is therefore in dispute and they are to stop recovery activity per OFT guidelines.

3 months of nothing or a token £1 a month will soften them up for a better offer on a F&F...

 

There is something fishy on the loan.

 

They would not have admitted to not having the original agreement if they didn't have to.

Perhaps a SAR to see exactly what they do have?

 

It will cost £10...

[Owain1]

Thankyou

[dx100uk]

when was the last time you paid these or used the financially?

 

dx

[Owain1]

Hi dx100

 

I have been paying into a DMP on these accounts for the last 2 years. I last used them financially in early 2010.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

i really do hope your DMP is a free one?

 

dx

[Owain1]

Nope, not a free one but with HSBC being my only remaining creditor I will now be dealing with them directly. The joy of it!

[dx100uk]

ok well sar time

 

and look at reclaiming too

 

PENALTY charges & PPI?

 

dx

[Owain1]

No PPI on the loan but SAR time anyway. The credit card is now unenforcable and naturally I will inform HSBC of such. Unfortunately I don't know what to look for even if I did get the SAR!

[dx100uk]

how much do you owe on the card?

 

dx

[Owain1]

Around 7.5k on the card. Any advice?

 

Thanks

[Old Cogger]

Hello

 

I requested my HSBC CCA for a Credit Card I took out in 1993. T

hey have not got the agreement and have sent me the terms and conditions that would have been relevent at the time.

Is this enforcable in court?

 

I requested my loan agreement for a loan I took out in 2008.

They have sent me a payment statement and a copy of the online application.

The documents that I signed are missing. Is this enforcable in court?

 

I am happy to send a copy to somebody to look at.

 

Any help would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Midland Bank??

[Owain1]

yep, the listening bank!

[Old Cogger]

Ah!! they are looking for it (CCA1974) oh dear!! eventually may be they cannot find one, but might send to you a so called what might of been copy and a load of T&Cs, we wait and see.

[Owain1]

They have responded with a copy of a leaflet from back in the day and a copy of my last few statements. Not something that would stand in court me thinks..

[Owain1]

I haven't even considered doing the PPI thing with this card. I had PPI with Midland Bank for around 5 - 6 years on this account. I called them and asked for 19 years of statements. They said they could only provide 6 years. Unsure where to go from here. But if unenforcable I will use it as greater leverage for a full and final settlement.

[Owain1]

I have just re-read what HSBC sent me in regards to my CCA credit card request. The address that they have put on is a property I moved into many years after the the original agreement would have been signed, if any.

 

Is this good news?

[Bandit127]

I have just re-read what HSBC sent me in regards to my CCA credit card request. The address that they have put on is a property I moved into many years after the the original agreement would have been signed, if any.

 

Is this good news?

No better news than the admission that they do not have the original. This already means that they cannot enforce in court.

 

You could write back pointing out the error of their ways and maintaining that they are still in default of your CCA request as a result of the "reconstruction" not being contemporanious. It will (possibly) sharpen their minds a bit. But legally, it doesn't really move things on.

 

The admission that they do not have the original is good enough IMO.

[Old Cogger]

Well if they do not have one (I am not surprised - maybe in the fire), even if they send a Re-construction it would have to be a copy of the held by them I have been told, and breaking FSA Regulation if they do not hold one and send a section 77/78/79 blank

 

Also if it went to court you would insist inder section 61 something actual copy of a signed agreement,

 

so iof you are going for Full & Final you would have ammunition, but beware HSBC are the pits it seems , look at other threads on here in respect of the Hang San Bango Cang .

[Bandit127]

Just for clarity on the CCA request front...

 

The OP has a credit card from 1993. HSBC have admitted that they do not have the original agreement. They have provided a reconstruction that contains an address that was not where the OP lived at the time - in fact (provably) some years later.

 

The OP has a loan from 2008 (therefore post April 2007). They sent a copy of the T&Cs that HSBC think were right at the time , plus a copy of the application form. HSBC have admitted that they cannot find the original agreement for this account.

 

End of summary.

 

Conjecture begins...

 

The CC is clearly unenforecable.

 

The loan - they have provided a "reconstruction" based on the application form. I find it odd that HSBC have actually admitted to not having the original. Surely any seasoned creditor would just provide a reconstruction and be done with it. Unless there was no way the reconstruction could be accurate (I am guessing here) because they do not have the original agreement to base the reconstruction on...

[dx100uk]

i would befin to look at getting together a PPI reclaim

even if using gestimated data

 

£7.5k is a big balance and is worth the try in court

 

dx