Northern Rail Fare non payment ,16 year old

[jpen]

My 16 year old daughter was stopped at M/CR Victoria in July and questioned at length by a northern rail staff member regarding her ticket. She was told that her ticket was incorrect, issued with a replacement and told that she would receive a letter regarding the matter. Today a letter has arrived addressed not to my daughter but to Parent/Guardian asking for an explanation and threatening prosecution etc. I have a few queries regarding this and would appreciate any advice.

The basis of the dispute is that she had a childs ticket. She purchased this in good faith as she believed, wrongly as much small print reading and internet research has since revealed, that her GMPTE IGO pass entitled her to child fare until 31/8/2012. True for metro and bus as it turns out but not for train. Not being on a direct train route she does not often travel by train and had no idea this was the case. When she bought her ticket at the station ticket booth she did not ask for a child ticket but had her pass in her hand and simply asked for a return, she did state this to the staff member when he questioned her.

If Northern Rail felt it appropriate to question her at length without contacting me as a parent, why do they now see fit to write to Parent/guardian in connection with this matter and not directly to my daughter ?

Can a 16 year old be summoned issued with fines/court costs etc for this and where do they think a full time student will get the funds to pay this ?

What sort of criminal record are they alluding to and would this follow her after her 18th birthday ?

Neither myself nor my daughter have spare money to make an offer for admin charges at the rate mentioned in other northern rail threads.

The whole tone of their letter gets my back up as it looks like an attempt to play on my emotions as a protective parent to get large amounts of money to prevent my daughter getting a "criminal record ". Unfortunately it makes me want to tell them to do their worst and we'll see them in court, but is that really a good idea ?

[firstclassx]

Because your daughter is 16, she is unlikely to be prosecuted, (although hundreds of youths are successfully prosecuted each year for railway offences), but you are likely to have to pay some sort of "penalty".

 

So yes, she can be summonsed and prosecuted for failing to hold a valid ticket. This should only happen if one or more of the following applies:

 

a) She has committed a previous offence

b) She was abusive or uncooperative with the Inspector(s)

c) You refuse to/are unable to meet an administrative penalty "settlement".

 

If convicted, she would get a criminal record, although the type of record varies depending on the offence.

 

If convicted under Railway Byelaw 18 , (no intent etc needed), it would only appear on an "enhanced" disclosure. So it could affect jobs like teaching, medical profession, financial sector, legal jobs etc.

If convicted of deliberate fare evasion, (Section 5(3) Regulation of Railways Act 1889), it would appear as a normal criminal record, where it would always show.

 

A criminal record is permanent, and stays with you for life, however they do become "spent", so an Under 18 would only need to declare a conviction (resulting in a fine) for 2.5 years, unless it was an "enhanced disclosure" type job.

 

Unfortunately, they will win, and easily, if taken to a Youth Offenders Court! She has breached Railway Byelaw 18(1), a "strict liability" offence, meaning the prosecutor only needs to prove the offence took place, i.e. it doesn't make any difference that it was a mistake/confusion etc.

 

Because she is a minor, I don't think a large financial penalty would be required to settle this. I would suggest perhaps £50-£75 along with a letter apologising profoundly for this genuine mistake, explain that you've spoken to your daughter in great detail over having a valid ticket and it would not happen again. Don't mention it being unfair etc, make it very civil and polite and ensure you appear genuine and regretful.

 

I'd go more with £50 if the fare (undiscounted!) is less than £10, and more towards £75 if the actual fare should have been around £20.

 

If you tell them to do their worst, they really will, to the disadvantage of your daughter.

 

Ultimately, the fee you pay may not work out too badly, if you consider how often she has been getting a 50% discount she wasn't entitled to.

e.g. if she has travelled 10 times and only paid £5 each time, when it should have been £10, you are only paying back what she should have paid in the first place. If she travelled more than 10 times, you have actually saved money.

 

This should be a valuable lesson! - ALWAYS READ THE SMALL PRINT (especially when you sign TfGM IGO application forms confirming you have done so!)

 

If you can't afford the £50-£75 amount then I would suggest you write a similar apology letter, but explain your tight financial situation and offer to provide supporting evidence that it would cause serious hardship, (e.g. benefits etc). They could offer that you pay it in installments, (but for £50 they would have to be at least 2 x £25), or they may just waive the admin charge.

 

If your daughter is caught ever again, for any sort of railway offence, she will face prosecution. She needs to 100% understand the severity of that. If they settle on this one, they won't settle again. I suggest you and your daughter read the railway byelaws.

Edited September 23, 2012 by firstclassx

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I'm sorry to hear about your problems.

 

Just to add to firstclassx's comprehensive answer, pointing out the errors of their ways hasn't worked for anybody here, it just seems to put the company's back up. I can't advise on the fine part as I'm not one of the transport people here.

 

My best, HB

[jpen]

Thanks for your replies. Thought I would let you know how my daughter got on.

She wrote the reply to Northern Rail explaining that she thought her IGO pass was valid and that the ticket office did not ask her age nor did she ask for a child ticket. She apologised for her genuine mistake and assured them that this would not be happening again and had not happened before as all her previous train journeys had been made when she was under 16.

Outcome of all this is that she has now paid the £1.95 difference in the fare and the matter is concluded.

Just as a matter of interest she conducted a straw poll amongst her friends ALL of whom were under the impression that the IGO pass entitled them to child price on the train until 31august following the end of year 11. Rather than this being a problem with not reading the small print properly maybe the IGO pass literature and signage at stations should be clearer.

Oh well .....Live and learn.

[Old-CodJA]

Well done, good result, but as you say, a lesson in the need to read the conditions every time.