Newlyn PLC bailiff visit re:CTAX and my dog

[jenni_g]

Hello,

I received a hand delivered letter, from Newlyn PLC saying they had attended my property to "seize and distrain" possessions to satisfy my council tax bill.

 

No one knocked on my door, this letter was simply posted through.

 

I emailed Newlyn as soon as I received this, making an offer to pay, but they did not respond.

 

Today I telephoned the office, and attempted to make payments.

 

The lady I spoke to said that my offer was not acceptable, and they would be sending a bailiff to me today if I could not pay in full.

I have ignored the telephone call, made an initial payment and set up a SO with my bank to pay this anyway. I have printed proof of these.

 

My main concern is if the bailiff indeed visits my house, and I open the door to show them I am making payments etc, will they try to force their way into my home?

 

Also I have a dog, who is friendly with people he knows, but will attack anyone he doesnt.

 

When I answer my door, the bailiff will be able to clearly hear the dog, as he tends to attack an inner door like mad until I go back in my house.

 

What will happen if the bailiff forces entry and my dog attacks him?

 

Am I liable for this?

 

Thanks

[mellymoo74]

I also have two dogs the only advice I can offer is to ensure the bailiff doesn't break in and clearly warn the bailiff that you wont be answering the door. As the letter was posted through and there was no knock or attempt to contact you speak to the council to complain about this, they are supposed to give you every opportunity to pay. You are going to have to include the first visit fee now.

 

PT and OB will know more about the law surrounding this than I do

[sequenci]

Hi Jenni, the best thing to do is not to open the door to the bailiff. in fact simply ignore them when they visit. always negtotiate in writing. They cannot break in and have to gain peaceful entry the first time. ensure doors and windows are locked. If they cannot get in then they won't be able to seize assets.

 

More info here:

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/debt_advice.php#3

[dx100uk]

whom are you paying ...the bailiff co.?

 

if you are

 

IMHO you need to stop that and pay the council direct

via YOUR internet banking site.

 

you can never guarantee the bailiffs will not add more spoof fees before fwding the remainder.

 

they CANNOT break in to you home on a CTAX debt.

 

do the following please:

 

if you can pay you should be paying the council

direct via your internet banking site

never ever pay a bailiff.

 

you need to do these two things:

 

start by sending this to the bailiff co. it can done by e-mail also send it to the council this will tell us when the fees were added

From:

My Name

My Address

To:

Acme bailiff Co

bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

 

 

Also always advisable to ask the Council.

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

 

dx

dx

[jenni_g]

Thank you both for your quick replies.

 

If I am making payments, which I am obviously willing to do, will they still visit me anyway?

And what is an acceptable amount to offer?

 

My partner is self employed, and not earning a lot at the moment. I owe £694.50.

 

I paid £34.50 today and have offered £30 every fortnight by SO direct from my account.

 

I tried to offer this directly to the council, but they would not take any payments as I was too late and the account was already passed to the bailiffs.

 

Is this not correct?

 

Thanks again

[mellymoo74]

Have a look at what you can afford taking into consideration this years CT and offer that email them the dates it will paid and pay on the automated line you can then check a couple of days later that the correct amount has come off the right year.

[dx100uk]

if you can pay

 

do it to the council direct.

 

he can try all he likes to 'return'

 

but you simply ignore him.

 

dx

[Ell-enn]

Hi, the council cannot refuse payment - they will tell you they can because it is easier for them to let the bailiff deal with it once they have passed it over to them. Now you have set up a standing order to pay - send them a letter (by recorded delivery) telling them that you have made a payment and will continue to pay £XX on XX day of the month. Give your reasons for non payment and assure them you are anxious to reduce the arrears but will not deal with a bailiff as you are nervous of being intimidated by them.

 

Keep a copy of the letter and very importantly the recorded delivery receipt - then a few days after posting check the tracking number from the receipt on the royalmail website to print off the proof of signature. Staple this proof to your copy letter and keep in a safe place in case they say they didn't receive it.

[jenni_g]

the amount due is for the current c tax.

I got myself behind when my partners income slowed right down,

by the time I got sorted and made an offer,

the council said it was too late.

 

If I make online payments to my c tax via the council website will this still come off the balance that the bailiffs have?

 

Im offering a guaranteed £30 a fortnight,

but will make further payments on top of this as and when I can.

 

Should I cancel the sanding order with the bailiffs then? Im confused.

[dx100uk]

YES cancel the SO to the bailiff

 

pay it to the council via YOUR internet banking site

they cannot refuse it that way.

 

dont worry about what the gailiff claims is owed

 

nothing to do with him.

 

i suggest as a matter of urgency you do the following:

 

if you can pay you should be paying the council

direct via your internet banking site

never ever pay a bailiff.

 

you need to do these two things:

 

start by sending this to the bailiff co. it can done by e-mail also send it to the council this will tell us when the fees were added

From:

My Name

My Address

To:

Acme bailiff Co

bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

 

 

Also always advisable to ask the Council.

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

 

dx

[Ell-enn]

Hi, the council cannot refuse payment - they will tell you they can because it is easier for them to let the bailiff deal with it once they have passed it over to them. Now you have set up a standing order to pay - send them a letter (by recorded delivery) telling them that you have made a payment and will continue to pay £XX on XX day of the month. Give your reasons for non payment and assure them you are anxious to reduce the arrears but will not deal with a bailiff as you are nervous of being intimidated by them.

 

Keep a copy of the letter and very importantly the recorded delivery receipt - then a few days after posting check the tracking number from the receipt on the royalmail website to print off the proof of signature. Staple this proof to your copy letter and keep in a safe place in case they say they didn't receive it.

 

 

Sorry, didn't realise you had set up a standing order to the bailiff company! I thought it was the council. In which case you should write and tell them you will pay via the council website.

[brassnecked]

factor in £42.50 for first and second visit fees, a total of £42.50 which is all the bailiff can claim if he can't levy, one contributor would advise you to deal with the bailiff, as he owns the debt now, ( he doesn't the council ultimately do) but there is no law that says you must

[jenni_g]

Thanks all of you for your quick informative replies!

 

I will deal with this ASAP. I know I should have avoided this before it happened, but I do wonder how they can send a current C Tax bill to a bailiff, when the C Tax year is not even over? Very annoying, but like I said, I should have dealt with it sooner.

 

Thanks again all of you

[brassnecked]

Thanks all of you for your quick informative replies!

 

I will deal with this ASAP. I know I should have avoided this before it happened, but I do wonder how they can send a current C Tax bill to a bailiff, when the C Tax year is not even over? Very annoying, but like I said, I should have dealt with it sooner.

 

Thanks again all of you

The bill is due in full at the beginning of the tax year, but installments are a concession, allowing you time to pay, miss a payment and they will seek a LO and give it to bailiffs as in theory if you haven't settled up it is overdue

[unclebulgaria67]

They can pass a current year council tax bill to bailiffs, as after a couple of missed payments, they then demand the remainder of the year. I presume that government legislation allows them to be do so. They think so anyway. I am sure I have read on here, the legislation being quoted.

 

Plus I think that councils may be working with bailiff companies on some form of commission share. Call me cynical, but it would not surprise me, if the councils were getting something back from the bailiffs. Some councils have outsourced the council tax admin to a private company, the same private company also owns a couple of bailiff companies. Not saying that anything dodgy is taking place, but you do wonder.

[old bill]

As far as the position regarding dogs goes,

you have a duty, in law, to keep a dog under control in a PUBLIC PLACE.

 

However, if someone is stupid enough to break into a dwelling house and a dog sinks its teeth into their backside, that is their own fault.

 

Unless they have an order under seal of a court or written authorisation from a court, bailiffs cannot break into a dwelling house as and when they feel like it.

 

It would be wise to put up signs at entrances to your home stating BEWARE OF THE DOG(S).

You should also send a letter to the bailiff company by Signed For Mail.

This means they cannot claim later they were not warned.

 

Also, the police and RSPCA are unlikely to assist them, despite what certificated bailiffs may say.

RSPCA are concerned with cruelty, mistreatment or neglect of animals that causes suffering and will not get involved.

 

The police are unlikely to get involved, other that to prevent a breach of the peace and, even then, they will ask to see a copy of any authorisation from a ocurt.

[brassnecked]

One thing to be aware of is althoigh they would be unwise to, if an animal is pedigree they may try to sieze the dog as part of any levy. this is unlikely but not unknown. I would like to see what a bailiff would do if attacked by a couple of vicious cats, as police cannot proseute the owner for damage or injury caused by a cat

[old bill]

It would be a cat-astrophe for the bailiff. Sorry, BN, but I couldn't resist that one.

[lamma]

I don't think they the can seize animals. Of course an animal may 'seize' them on your premises

[old bill]

I have a very strong feeling you are correct, Lamma, as a distress warrant refers to "Goods", not animals. Animals are not goods.

[brassnecked]

I have a very strong feeling you are correct, Lamma, as a distress warrant refers to "Goods", not animals. Animals are not goods.

 

If the animal is pedigree and has value, as a breeding animal with papers, and you sell the puppies or kittens yes they can seize it, but the problems with keeping it etc make it an unlikely levy. What a catastrophe, legs ripped to shreds and police powerless to help bailiff in case cat has them also. It would look bad on all parties if police tasered the cat and the press got hold of it.

 

But OP should put up the warning signs, so bailiff cannot claim they didn't know a dog was there.

Edited September 23, 2012 by brassnecked

[ploddertom]

I don't think they the can seize animals. Of course an animal may 'seize' them on your premises

 

Animals can & have been seized & have been removed in the past. However the Bailiff must have on hand specialised removal facilities, arrangements where they may be kept & veterinary arrangements when needed. Because of the problems this causes most Bailiffs would not do such a thing but the more valuable may be - racehorses, farm animals, high value pedigree dogs/cats.

[old bill]

I have heard of farm animals being seized, PT, but I do concur with you about them needing veterinary and suitable housing arrangements for smaller animals.

[tomtubby]

The problem that you will very likely have is that when the bailiff visits the property, he can levy upon a car owned either by you or your partner. As long as you do not have a car outside, then the ONLY fees that can be charged by the bailiff are limited to £42.50.

[jenni_g]

Thanks to all of you for your responses.

 

I have already cancelled the SO to the bailiff direct, and have started making payments directly to the council through their website, and printing off receipts each time.

 

I am going to get a "Beware of the dog" sign today, just to cover myself legally.

I am also going to email the bailiffs each time I make a payment, and quote the payment reference number to them.

 

The best bit about paying the council direct is that they do not charge 50 pence for each payment!

I might tell them this when I email them .

 

I would love to see anyone try to sieze my dog!!

He isnt pedigree, just goes totally mental when anyone knocks at the door, or if a stranger comes in!

 

I am a little concerned after reading a few other messages,

one regarding paying the bailiff or the council direct,

that the bailiff may still try to charge me for visits etc.

 

If I go ahaed with paying the council direct, and ignoring the bailiff,

is he likely to still try to attend my property?

 

If this is the case, I would rather just pay them and get it done with.

This is all so confusing.

Thanks