What are the regulations for white H bar markings in front of a drive?

[SepticSid]

Hello, can you please advise what the law is in relation to white H bar makings found in front of a drive?

 

I am not referring to parking in front of the drive or blocking vehicles entering or leaving but specifically what the legislation is regarding the white lines?

 

I have seen comments elsewhere that they are only advisory but they were not backed up with any facts.

 

The white markings I am referring to are on a drive that is on a main rod, there are parking spaces either side and vehicles parked in the parking space may have their car body over the lines but are not over the dropped area of curb or past the stone pillars either side of the drive.

I.E. To the side of the driveway - but the white lines extend 2' beyond the dropped part of curb.

 

I have spoken to a police officer who says he cannot remember them being part of the TSRGD.

 

Thank you.

 

EDIT: This is outside London and in England. (Lancashire).

Edited August 4, 2012 by SepticSid
Added loacl authority

[gordies]

Hello, can you please advise what the law is in relation to white H bar makings found in front of a drive?

 

 

 

I am not referring to parking in front of the drive or blocking vehicles entering or leaving but specifically what the legislation is regarding the white lines?

 

 

 

I have seen comments elsewhere that they are only advisory but they were not backed up with any facts.

 

 

 

The white markings I am referring to are on a drive that is on a main rod, there are parking spaces either side and vehicles parked in the parking space may have their car body over the lines but are not over the dropped area of curb or past the stone pillars either side of the drive.

 

I.E. To the side of the driveway - but the white lines extend 2' beyond the dropped part of curb.

 

 

 

I have spoken to a police officer who says he cannot remember them being part of the TSRGD.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

EDIT: This is outside London and in England. (Lancashire).

 

 

 

 

The lines extend beyond the kerb deliberately and they should be observed. Violation of h-bars leads to a fixed penalty fine imposed by the local Council. Different Councils may have different rules of application.

 

However, a Police officer may also hand over a ticket as, under the road traffic act, any violation is obstruction.

 

If the property has a dropped kerb it is a legal access point. If there is no dropped kerb then it is not a legal access point.

[SepticSid]

Are there rules for the implementation of H bars? ISTR that they are not in the TSRGD so if they are not in that then surely they have no place in law?

 

If local councils want to make something up then surely it has to be within the law? Where can the law relating to these markings be obtained?

[Michael Browne]

Are there rules for the implementation of H bars? ISTR that they are not in the TSRGD so if they are not in that then surely they have no place in law?

 

If local councils want to make something up then surely it has to be within the law? Where can the law relating to these markings be obtained?

They are purely advisory, therefore there are no statutory regulations relating to them.

 

Their purpose is merely to highlight to other vehicles that they shouldn't block access to off-road parking areas such as a driveway or garage.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

My local constabulary states these markings are advisory only and are not backed

by any legislation.

[gordies]

There is provision under the TSRGD for the Council to provide these H Bars.

 

Although it is classed as advisory, and has no legal standing, actual obstruction of a driveway is an offence that the Police can ticket for.

 

Some Councils have local regulations for areas of residence where there may be power to issue fixed penalty notices.

[SepticSid]

There is provision under the TSRGD for the Council to provide these H Bars.

Are you able to say where as I cannot find it?

EDIT: Maybe its on P178/section 6.

And if the driveway is clearly not obstructed? If the White markings extend way beyond the dropped curb?

I suspect that the markings I am thinking of are incorrect but wish to find how they should be setout.

 

What about which part of a vehicle covers it?

I understand that it has to be the wheels when it is a zig zag or yellow line - so where is the bit that specifies which part of a vehicle is committing an offense for these?

Edited August 5, 2012 by SepticSid

[gordies]

Yes, Section 6, p178.

 

H bars are roughly the same width as the dropped kerb, but an overlap is usually seen (1 metre either side) to allow free space for the turning in and turning out of any vehicle. If the dropped kerb was substantially wider at some point in the past then the H bars would have been of similar width to try and curb the activities of illegal parking.

 

An offence is committed (in some Councils with delegated powers) if a vehicle is blocking or overhanging part, or all, of the vehicular access.

[SepticSid]

What is defined as the vehicular access?

 

IMO if there is a large stone pillar at the side of the drive and the vehicle is parked such that it does not extend beyond that then it is not blocking vehicular access. This is a double width drive.

 

How does one find out if the council has delegated powers and who from?

[sailor sam]

The rule about obstructing someone's driveway are quite simple. If you car is blocked IN, then the police can be requested to remove the offending vehicle whether there are lines there or not (providing that there is a dropped kerb). However, if you car is prevented from entering you drive then there's nowt you can do about it. As others have mentioned, the white 'H' bar line is purely advisory.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[SepticSid]

Thank you to all.

[green_and_mean]

The rule about obstructing someone's driveway are quite simple. If you car is blocked IN, then the police can be requested to remove the offending vehicle whether there are lines there or not (providing that there is a dropped kerb). However, if you car is prevented from entering you drive then there's nowt you can do about it. As others have mentioned, the white 'H' bar line is purely advisory.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Unless its in a Council enforced area in which case the car can be both ticketed and towed away even if the householder doesn't own a car.

[green_and_mean]

If there is no car to block IN there will be no ticketing

 

Not true I'm afraid.

[gordies]

If it is a legal dropped kerb, then the H bars are there to curb the obstruction of that dropped kerb access.

 

If there is a car on the hardstanding then obstructing its egress can cause a ticket to be issued.

 

If there is no car then obstructing the ingress of any vehicle can also be ticketed by the council depending on what the local regulations are.

[SepticSid]

AFAIK id the owner of the drive with the H bars complains to the council - the offending car can get a ticket, however if a car is over the H lines that has the permission of the drive owner then they are not going to get a ticket, because the owner is not going to be complaining to the council about it.

 

Hence - make friends with the drive owner.

[SabreSheep]

SpeticSid

 

what is your local authority

[SepticSid]

Mine is Rossendale, but what I said above is just what I have read on the web.

My locals said that people had paid for the H lines to be painted, so that they get access, myself I think its a load of tosh. Its not in the TRSGD so its not legal.

[SabreSheep]

OK not much help from your LA other that parking enforcement is by way of Lancashire County Council.

 

AS for the H bar, in itself it is advisory and not enforceable but it appears the dropped kerb may be

 

Hertfordshire Constabulary have this to say on their website.

 

Vehicles obstructing driveways

Where vehicles are preventing access to or from a driveway, the police have the capability to identify the vehicle owner and request the vehicle is moved. Please contact us using the details above.

 

Vehicles obstructing dropped kerbs

 

 

Due to a change in legislation your local Borough / District Council is now able to issue a Penalty Charge Notice to vehicles obstructing a dropped kerb that serves a driveway, cycle track or pedestrian access.

 

Vehicles must not park on the carriageway adjacent to the footway, cycle track or verge that has been lowered or where the carriageway has been raised to the level of the footway, cycle track or verge for a purpose of:

 

 

• Assisting pedestrians crossing the road
  
• Assisting vehicles entering or leaving the off street parking areas such as driveways across the footway, cycle track or verge.
  
• Assisting cyclists entering or leaving the road.
  

 

Inconsiderate parking alongside dropped kerb can prevent residents, particularly people with disabilities and persons with pushchairs, from crossing the public highway in a safe manner, and also prevent the residents and businesses from getting their vehicles back on the road or in their driveway.

 

Please contact the police on the non-emergency number, 101.

[green_and_mean]

Mine is Rossendale, but what I said above is just what I have read on the web.

My locals said that people had paid for the H lines to be painted, so that they get access, myself I think its a load of tosh. Its not in the TRSGD so its not legal.

 

I guess it must be legal then!

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/images/uksi_20023113_en_132

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

We can ask our LA for these markings charges are at the discretion of the council depending on the applicants circumstances.

[SepticSid]

I also had a local bobby trying to tell me that if I was over the lines I could be prosecuted under other things, something about anti social behavior I think.

Total BS I thought & never heard from them again.