Time off or medical appointments for disabled employee

[postggj]

do you have a union or health and safety rep to talk to

[goboy]

do you have a union or health and safety rep to talk to

 

She is not in a union and after reading some posts on here about unions I think that is no loss, there is a health and safety rep at her work place but they are employed by the company and I expect she would not get that much help there either.

[Emmzzi]

No point expecting, every point asking. Not much to lose really, is there?

[goboy]

No point expecting, every point asking. Not much to lose really, is there?

 

Of course you are correct Emmzzi, I will tell her to have a word with H&S guy at work. She has a disability and I do not think that is in dispute now. Should she asked them if they are still disputing her disability consider their OH said 4 years ago that she had underlying health problems.

[Emmzzi]

Should she asked them if they are still disputing her disability consider their OH said 4 years ago that she had underlying health problems.

 

Not sure that's a question? But really, there's nothing to lose so any "should she" type queries are probably "why wouldn't she?" In this one I doubt the H&S rep will know the inner thoughts of management...

[goboy]

Not sure that's a question? But really, there's nothing to lose so any "should she" type queries are probably "why wouldn't she?" In this one I doubt the H&S rep will know the inner thoughts of management...

 

Thanks Emmzzi, she will be asking questions on her next shift, she has asked for copies of her RTW interviews but the manager always say the photocopier is not working, I wonder if they are suppose to let her have copies of these reports considering that she signs them.

Manager could easily put things in after they have been signed which they would to cover their backs. She seems to have lost complete trust in management of her organization.

[Emmzzi]

"I'm more than happy to take them home and scan them if the copier still isn't working, I will bring them back in the morning."

[goboy]

"I'm more than happy to take them home and scan them if the copier still isn't working, I will bring them back in the morning."

 

I think she did suggest that and was told that they could not let them out of the store. It looks like they have got every excuse under the sun to be unhelpful to staff even disabled staff and wants them out of the workplace as they see it as costing them money.

[Emmzzi]

lend her a digital camera. She can take photos of them. just as good.

[postggj]

She is not in a union and after reading some posts on here about unions I think that is no loss, there is a health and safety rep at her work place but they are employed by the company and I expect she would not get that much help there either.

 

all i can say is do not believe all the stories you hear about trade unions. i agree you have some bad reps as well as good ones, its all in the training

 

the trade union health and safety rep has the welfare of everyone in the office to watch out for, that includes managers. a threat to one person is a threat to all

 

i am speaking as an Area HEALTH AND SAFETY REPRESAENTATIVE for a national trade union

 

you do not have to be in the union to raise this issue with the H&S rep

Edited July 9, 2012 by squaddie

[goboy]

lend her a digital camera. She can take photos of them. just as good.

 

Thank squaddie - she will be looking into that when next at work.

 

Emmzzi, that my me laugh taking photos is a no, no, not even the A2W assessor was allowed by HR to take a photo of unsuitable seating that was given to her to sit on for her shifts, HR flatly refused to allow the assessor to take photos and it was only when the assessor said that they should get a manager who know about A2W that the HR people called that manager, it was only allowed then to take a photos. You could not make it up........I am talking about a very large high street retailer the more up market one at that as well.

[Emmzzi]

It is a photo of spomething simply because the copier is broken. That is different.

 

But if you are going to "yes but" everything....

[lbruk]

Sick pay still accrues while you are off sick, so saying that you have to work a certain amount of time to "build it up" is rubbish, there are however rules about how much you can take in a year etc etc..

 

HSE - what rules have they specifically broken - you say "every rule" but i don't think that is entirely accurate!

 

The notes, whats stopping them going to Staples (or like) to photocopying them while you wait?

[goboy]

Sick pay still accrues while you are off sick, so saying that you have to work a certain amount of time to "build it up" is rubbish, there are however rules about how much you can take in a year etc etc..?

 

I think you are correct as the company hand book says that sick pay starts from April to the end of March. So they have pull a fast one on her. She has not exceeded the time time for any particular year.

 

HSE - what rules have they specifically broken - you say "every rule" but i don't think that is entirely accurate!

 

That was a figure of speach, they have and are continully breacking her rights as a disabled person firstly by not making adjustments for her and where they put her to work is not condusive for her or other disabled person that is in a wheel chair to enter that room which they have do when at work to collect mobile phones as they are charging in the room that my aunt is in.

 

The notes, whats stopping them going to Staples (or like) to photocopying them while you wait?

 

The mangers do not like giving photocopies of any notes that the employee signs the most common excuse is that they copy machine is broken and will let her have a copy later but later never comes. Also staff are not allowed mobile phones to use anywhere in the store.

 

she had to go to hospital last week for screening and the next day at work she got ill and had to leave work. When she returned the manager said that she would not be paid for the time she took off ill and would not be paid for anytime she is off ill until she has completed 13 week of work without being ill.

She ask if she could take it as leave and was told not because she should have let the manger was not give enough notice of her illness.

There is no rest room in the store for staff that needs to rest if they need to and when feeling a bit better they could go back to work. There is a large canteen but that is so noisey it would not be of any use aslo there is a pray room but not seating there. The manger said she could have use one of the meeting room but all that is there is a round table and some chairs, whcih was not good either as she needed peace and quiet and a darken room. Now she has lost 4 hours pay due to that. :x

[lbruk]

Copies of the notes are a legal right, what would they have said if she had taken her own notes? would they have wanted a copy of them?

 

HSE, the adjustments are an employment issue in terms of discrimination, not a HSE problem. Not having disabled access though is a problem for the HSE to deal with, but even that depends on when the building was built, the HSE does not expect an employer to tear down walls and make space for wheelchairs if when the building was originally designed in a time where this legislation was not about. That would not be deemed as reasonable.

 

Denying notes is an interesting issue that should be pursued. She could request them under a DSAR and therefore they would have to copy them!!

[assisted blonde]

Hi with regards to sick pay if you are entitled to say 3 months full pay during the year and the companies financial year runs from Jan - Dec and you were sick sept/oct/nov then if your company works on a rolling 12 months for sick pay you wouldnt be entitled to any until you had been back at work for 12 months as it would be within a 12 month period. This could be what the employer meant when they said the lady had to be back at work for 13 weeks.

Not sure that companies have to provide rest rooms though, in most companies I think if you had a headache you would be told to take a painkiller and get some fresh air.

However it does seem as if your Aunt has had a long running dispute with her employers and if she is looking for other work or not bothered about keeping this job then I would agree with previous postings to keep on at them with the grievences etc as she would seem to have nothing to loose.

[Emmzzi]

I agree with AB; there's a canteen, a prayer room and a meeting room - if she is so ill none of these will do the trick she shouldn't be at work, any one would think a choice of 3 places reasonable.

[goboy]

Copies of the notes are a legal right, what would they have said if she had taken her own notes? would they have wanted a copy of them?

 

She find it difficult to make her own notes because she get stressed out at these meetings.

 

HSE, the adjustments are an employment issue in terms of discrimination, not a HSE problem. Not having disabled access though is a problem for the HSE to deal with, but even that depends on when the building was built, the HSE does not expect an employer to tear down walls and make space for wheelchairs if when the building was originally designed in a time where this legislation was not about. That would not be deemed as reasonable.

 

I agree that would be going too far to even ask them to extend the door. however there is a much bigger space just next to the small room where she is in and she should be able to work there. The person in the wheel chair has to get into that room, my aunt always get up and out of his way to allow him in, sometimes she get him what he needs from the room so he does not have to manoeuvre in that small space as it must be very difficult for him. The room is always very busy as the managers comes into it for their phones for the store and when they finished they have to return them to their socket in wall for charging, there is about 50 phones on the wall always charging also there are some spare lockers there as well and lost property in that small room with 3 desks there.

 

Denying notes is an interesting issue that should be pursued. She could request them under a DSAR and therefore they would have to copy them!!

 

She sent the company £10 for her documents but there lots missing and when she pursued this with them and they sent her some more, but she noted that the bundle that they presented at tribunal there were documents in that bundle that were not sent to her when she SAR them. :|

[goboy]

Hi with regards to sick pay if you are entitled to say 3 months full pay during the year and the companies financial year runs from Jan - Dec and you were sick sept/oct/nov then if your company works on a rolling 12 months for sick pay you wouldnt be entitled to any until you had been back at work for 12 months as it would be within a 12 month period. This could be what the employer meant when they said the lady had to be back at work for 13 weeks.

Not sure that companies have to provide rest rooms though, in most companies I think if you had a headache you would be told to take a painkiller and get some fresh air.

However it does seem as if your Aunt has had a long running dispute with her employers and if she is looking for other work or not bothered about keeping this job then I would agree with previous postings to keep on at them with the grievences etc as she would seem to have nothing to loose.

 

The company final year runs out at the end of March. They said that when absence is not genuine then the employee will have to work 3 months before the sick pay will be given to that employee. My aunt absence is genuine and they are saying that it is not by withholding her sick pay.

 

The pray room would have been good for peace and quiet but there is no seating in there. Also the canteen is very big but as staff are there during their break and TV is always on there is a lot of noise in that room. The meeting room would be OK but then they are meeting rooms and anyone could come in and tell her to leave it for them to hold a meeting. She is not too fussed now about the job and will pursue her rights, just to show that she has some and they are taking them away from her.

[whitecraig_wizard]

Actually, you will find that there is a legal enttilement to paid time off for hospital appointments. A good starting point you will find is; Meikle v Nottinghamshire county council. LJ Burton the then President of ET said it is the but for test, BUT for the disability would you be going to hospital, if the answer is no you are being treated differently for a reason which does not or would not apply. That is unlawful discrimination.You can ask your employer to make a reasonable adjustment under the EA and should they fail or refuse to do so then that is a seperate ground, they must evidence any decison making process which must be more than minor or trivial.May I suggest you contact the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, they can be of some help.Finally, unless it is specifically mentioned in your terms and conditions of service time may not be deducted from annual leave as the European worktime directive specifies all employees are entitled to 28 days paid leave, further this is still the case whilst on nil pay, there are however two criteria that have to be met; 1) you must request the leave from your employer2) It is not cumulative (or you can't add it all up say 4.5 years x 28 days then take it as a lump sum).How do I know all this, because my wife took her employer; Lothian & Borders Police to an employment tribunal as they had decided to deduct from her annual leave time taken for hospital appointments and refused to make a reasonable adjustment, specifically to allow her reasonable time off to attend her hospital appointments, as per the guidance of the DDA handbook. With all their resources circa £260M per year and a large personnel department; all of City of Edinburgh Council Legal services and two very expensive advocates she won unanimously. So one ordinary bloke beat all of that.

[whitecraig_wizard]

why when I put in paragraphs does it not see them?Sorry

[Emmzzi]

I can't find anything in Meikle about hospital appointments. Link please?

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2004/859.html

[Emmzzi]

Here is the lothian and borders case. It is discriminatory *because the policy was not applied to anyone else.* Not in and of itself.

In addition there was campaign of bullying.

 

Nothing is ever totally clear cut!

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/police-typist-wins-pay-out-1-930821

[whitecraig_wizard]

True but not accurate !Firstly, in Meikle it relates to the refusal to make a reasonable adjustment, She was a school teacher, and the detriment she suffered as a result of the refusal to make an adjustment under the DDA was her loss of pay. It is a starred ruling.In respect of my wife, The complaint to the ET was that they refused to make a reasonable adjustment under the DDA, She was the first employee to request such a thing, and sadly they made it up as they went along !The tribunal decided on the evidence heard that " what my wife suffered closely amounted to was systematic bullying harresment and discrimination violating her human rights and dignity. " Don't believe everything you read in the papers !However, to get back to the point in hand, it is unlawful discrimination to deduct time off for hospital appointements if it is only being done to disabled employees.

[Emmzzi]

In Meikle, the loss of pay was full pay to (sick) half pay, not appointment related.

 

What you type IS what I read in the papers! So we are agreeing on your second point.