Self employed, lying about income to reduce CSA payments

[Chipper10]

Hi

 

Hope someone can offer some advice.

 

The father to my children tells the csa he earns 125 a week. He gets away with this as his son who is his accountant fixes his books, therefore the csa follow the tax return that Inland Revenue have accepted, and they say there is nothing they can do.

 

I used to do his books, he earns over 600 a week. He told me before going to CSA he would get son (from previous relationship) to fix books so that he wouldnt have to pay much csa. (his daughter in law works for CSA so knows what he needs to get wages down too)

 

125 is less than min wage, he works 12hrs a day (earning 100) , he has mortgage of 260 pm and monthly bills that would take him easily up to 500 pm......there fore what money does he have left to feed himself, cloth himself, drink like he does, go out, run car etc etc....not only this he sees his children twice a week(not overnight) and spends money to buy them pointless magazines/trinklets, mcdonaalds, clothes (which they dont need) it equates to about £50 each week.....work this out and its £200 pm....so clearly he must be earning over 125 a week....he just could not survive on 125 a week, its impossible.....how in the hell can inland revenue not see this???

 

I struggle to feed the children and pay for utility bills, clubs and petrol to run them to these clubs, we are on border line, yet he happily flashes cash on them for rubbish (prob to rub in my face) but then declares barely anything to CSA, and refuses to think he should pay for their actual upkeep which Im doing on miniscule benefits. I cant work because cannot afford child care, and have a child with special needs. how can he think (despite how much he hates me) that it is appropriate to not pay for their upkeep which would actually benefit his children. Even the children know he earns more than 125, theyve worked out he couldnt survive on that! he has even told one child he has plenty of money and earns more than 100 a day!

 

I go out of my way to be amicable with him seeing the children, all he does is be manipulative, play games and try to punish me. He doesnt want to give ME any money, but its not MY money, it is for his children, and thats exactly where Id spend it and he knows it. it would help the children have nicer things like their friends, enable them to use the internet, feed them decent food, pay for clubs that benefits their socialisation and the petrol to get them there and to school.

 

Hes lying to inland revenue to avoid paying tax and avoid an appropriate payment to CSA....they say I should report him to inland revenue, but ive heard theres not much point as they dont investigate it?

Edited June 22, 2012 by citizenB

[jdes26]

Csa is never the way....... A private arrangement is so much better

What made you decide to use the csa?

I only ask because I had a private agreement with my ex fr five years and when I was out of work for 12,weeks she decided to go to csa

Big mistake as I am now self employed!!! It's a tough world

[reallymadwoman]

From what I remember you can have a word with the CSA and report your ex as apparently living beyond his means. You could also report him to the inland revenue.

 

Before you do either of the above you need to think carefully about how sure of your facts that you are, and the potential consequences. Is is possible that the extra cash comes from a new partner, for example?

[Chipper10]

Sry bit of rant coming......

He paid dribs n drabs over 2 yrs I had to go cap in hand . He would only ever pay summin if I was not in another relationship, or telling him things. I would never then ask so he never paid. I did stand up to him showed csa calculator to appeal to better nature, using wages both he n I know he earns 600+ a week. Came out he should pay 400 a month. I don't want bleed him dry or have more than is needed or he can afford so suggested 200 a month. This worked for 3 months....each payment got later, if I wasn't behaving how he liked I never got anything.

He controls n manipulates children. Controls n manipulates me. He really is not a nice man. But I put that aside this is about the kids I encourage them to have contact etc however I couldn't go on with him having a hold over me with msinentsnce which he would withhold at will ( really caring about his kids hey)

I would never have gone csa, but I had no choice.

He told me before he would get books fixed...I would get nothing...

I wasn't getting anything anyway except a lot of game playing.....the saddest thing is by him lying about his wages, yes he doesn't legally have to pay what he 'should ' or 'could '....he has an awesome chufty because he thinking yes I don't have to give that cow my hard earn money.....yet it's only his children that suffer.....it seems to me men seem to think it's about winning or beating the ex.....it's not its about the kids and I wonder what they will think when they older remember seeing mum hardly eating because I fed them instead, having no life, struggling to pay bills, not being able to work, remembering they never had nice things, remembering they never got new clothes it was hand me downs or second hand.....whilst daddy has it all. They know he has the means to keep them out of poverty but because he so obsessed with hurting me he won't help his kids n support upkeep.I wonder what they will think of him when they older that he went out of way to avoid paying for their upkeep.....

I'm sick of reading about dads n csa....all these dad's advising....hey go self employed csa can't touch u then.....it ain't a game u produced the child so help support it. It not about trying to get out of it so u don't have to pay ex.....the ex is raising the kids n hello they cost money so blimming help.if dads helped appropriately there wd b no need for csa.

I think him fiddling his books from 600 a week to less than 200 to avoiding paying what he could afford, what his children deserve, what would give them a better quality of life is abhorrent if u ask me. He will answer to them when they older....but that doesn't help now.

 

Sry bit of rant. Anyway my question is, should I persue reporting him to tax evasion......not only is he cooking books to avoid csa but hey guys he also avoiding paying the tax he should!!!! He breaking the law and u hard working honest tax payers foot the bill for tax evaders...

Is itvworth me reporting, will they investigate him or do u think its pointless stress I don't need.

Does anyone know the process?

[Chipper10]

Csa lady said summin about variation thing but I had to provide facts. All I can provide is a statement I have no access to his finances.

She said it would b better to report him to inland revenue as they could investigate properly.

 

I lived with him for years I know his income I did his books for 3 yrs and each yr he made me put in less wages he would say he only worked 3 or 4 days( it was an abusive relationship I just did as told), but in truth he work 12.hr shifts 5 to 7 days.......what job in UK only pays 125 for 60+ hrs a week......

I know approx his ougoings and 125 a week he is declaring doesn't go anywhere near it. Even his children laffed when I said wat dad declared, they said thats impossible.

He does not have a partner or anyone else to pay for. He has 3 bed house with large garden, people carrier, monthly internet, monthly phone, mobile phone, monthly council tax 90, monthly water 50 , monthly gas 90, monthly electric 65 approx. Then u have tv license. Then food. Then toiletries . Then upkeep for car. Then house maintenance. Then he sees kids twice a week and takes them for outing costing upwards of 60 a time........and he does all that on 125 a week?????

 

If inland revenue investigated how can they not see he couldn't possibly earn 125 a week.

 

I can't give them paper proof but if they spoke to his taxi office (n they were truthful ) they may b able give computer log of days he worked. If they checked bank they would see money going in....and they can check with council, gas n electric etc to see what he paying. If they followed him for a week they would see him work everyday.

 

If I report him surely they wouldn't expect me to provide this proof? Surely they would seek that?

 

And wa do u mean by consequences? I haven't done anything wrong?

[reallymadwoman]

If you are absolutely sure he is cooking the books, then you can report him and the tax office, if they investigate, will find the evidence. They can easily get access to his bank accounts etc. If you decide to do it, put down on paper absolutely everything that you know he spends, with whatever evidence you have (e.g. kids said they had x, y and z bought for them) and then let the tax office take over. The more doubt you can put in their minds, the more likely they are to investigate further but bear in mind that an investigation can take months or even years.

 

The consequences will mostly of course be to your ex, if he is found guilty. Worst case scenario would be a prison sentence, and are you willing to possibly do that to the father of your children? I'm not judging here, just asking questions to help you think this through. More immediately I'm sure your ex will know exactly who shopped him. You mention an abusive relationship, so would there be any risk to you? How are the children going to feel about you shopping him, because he will tell them?

 

Finally, I presume you are doing this to try to get him to pay a reasonable amount to support his children, however shopping him might in fact achieve the opposite. If he's in prison, he won't be paying anything, ditto if he ends up with a huge tax bill to cover. Even if he ends up with huge CSA arrears it can be almost impossible to get the money out of him, or at least it can take forever.

 

Obviously this is entirely your decision and I'm making no comment at all on whether or not you should shop him, just giving you a couple of things to think about.

 

Depending upon the age of your children (i.e. how long you would have to wait) you could possibly consider letting things go on as they are, however unsatisfactory that is, until he no longer has to pay you, and then shop him.

[Chipper10]

HI reallymadwoman,

 

Thankyou for that info, I am absolutely positive he is cooking books, he did it when I was doing books for him....now his son does it his wages are even lower depsite inflation etc etc doing same hrs.

 

There is defo evidence there if he was watched they would see him work ridiculous hours, its just impossible what he declaring and I can actually see how when his tax return goes in they dont find it remotely suspect...

All I can provide them with is what I know when I was with him, that he cooked books, his outgoings, hours of work, he actually works even more now as he is not allowed kids overnight anymore....so how his money has gone down even further begs belief lol.

 

Yes Im angry with him how he has treated me and children, but for last few years Ive not shopped him Im not into that really, only thinking about it now because he told me he would deliberately cook books to mean Id get nothing for children, this makes me mad as they suffer, he forcing them into poverty, yet I still encourage contact and od what I should, then he spends on them whilst he out they think Im a tight ass mum, despite Im sat not feeding myself cos I feed them first, I cant buy them or take them anywhere etc, whilst he splashes money on crap they dont need but of course kids being kids think the sun shines out of his bum and mum is just mean.

My eldest however has the jist. Part of me thinks like you say, at least I get summin now rather than grass him up and risk not getting anything if he go prison, on the other hand I never had anything before and the other side of me feels he has got away with everything, all the stuff he has done to me which he should be imprisoned for, how he treated kids, how he lying to make everyone believe Im the nasty one stopping him from seeing kids etc etc (not the case btw)

I didnt shop him for the things he did to me cos didnt want the kids to not have father, but he continues because he knows this....so perhaps call his bluff and stand up to him, he can tell the kids what he likes because I will tell them first, they have a good sense of whats right n wrong, although they would be sad they would understand daddy is breaking law, and tbh do we let everyone get away with everything just because they donated sperm??? . He is not allowed to come near me so I really dont care if he knows its me.

 

Youve been really helpful thankyou, youve given me some things to think about...Ill think about it some more with the family (who are all disgusted as they know what he earns as well lol) ....I guess there is no rush but I think eventually I prob will go ahead because I think it will just fester wiithin, I dont see why my kids and I should sit in poverty, suffer as we have done, whilst he sits makes a mockery of tax payers, a mockery of the system, a mockery of the law and gets away with it all whilst being financially comfortable. I guess I have nothing to lose but the meagre weekly amount the csa have awarded us which would just about feed them all for one day! Ive been surviving without it so its not like Ill miss what I never had.

 

The system is an ass

[afcwben]

when you say he is self employed is he working through his own Ltd company?