Investigatory hearing - ** RESOLVED **

[moll 61]

Hi

I work for a homeless charity and I manage a Hostel of 6 beds as a lone worker.

 

Recently I had a fall out with my line manager and as a consequence there is an investigatory.

Over the last few years we had an experiment witht he internet in all of our houses, this was a disaster for all kinds of reasons, at a Managers meeting we agreed that they were being abused (Porn, Illegal downloading of music, facebook til 5am meaning residents with no motivation until at least 2pm), One afternoon my line manager made a visit and mentioned that we were getting the internet again, I mentioned the meeting and that it was seen then as a bad idea. He made a point of saying that this had come from the Operations Manager and that is that.

I subsequently found it was his Idea and nothing to do with the ops manager. I have a local group of "friends" who raise money for the house and things that we need. Whilst I was on nights over the period Dec - Feb (we open our main office for the cold weather for the street homeless) my line manager was running my house. One of the "friends" phoned about a grant they may be able to get for the house and did we have anything we need, he told them we needed internet. a) no contact with me. b) disregard for our meeting. (I have the minutes)

I repeated to him the problems i.e. facebook till 5am etc to which he replied that I was a hypocrite as I access facebook when at home. I did point out that my personal internet is paid for by me.

 

Later that evening (sounds like a script) My Line Manager bought a resident whom he had taken to another house for a visit, back and gave him a loan for tobacco. This is a resident that I am supporting with Budgeting as he has a lot of debt.

Again we had bought up loans at a Managers meeting and it was decided that there would be no loans given to residents ( I have the minutes) I jokingly sent him an email for a written warning for loaning money (against the rules for residents to lend or borrow money) and thought that would be the end of it. (this is the manager that bought me a litter picker as I am currently in pain with my back as I have 3 damaged discs) and he is known for his humour and can relate many episodes of him doing similar things.

Due to my back problem when I take my medication in the afternoon I have to go home as I am spun out. I have a note from the Doctors for this, and work are fine with the arrangement as we are short staffed.

When I got home I recieved call on my work mobile from my line manager saying he was not immpressed with my e mail, and further more me mentioning the internet to the other house managers was undermining him. I had emailed the other 4 house managers re the internet situation as my line manager intimated it was in all houses, and as I had organised a meeting for later in the month to see how best to go forward with running our houses with less staff thought it appropriate to have it on the agenda.

as it happens we had a blinding row, where I mentioned me being at home was not the place to have this, language was choicer on both sides.

He has now started criticising any work that I do. (previously had a good relationship) but finally the last straw was when he left me a note accusing me of holding back food money from the residents as a resident had phoned him stating that. He is known for being a soft touch. I had previously denied them money as it was the day before the normal shopping day and that there was plenty of food in, I had checked and logged all this on our day log. Plus they had no tobacco between them, and an old ruse is to buy tobacco then refund it to the Housekeeping when they get paid. I knew two of them were paid the following day. The following day I asked twice for one resident to come and sign for the shopping money, no one appeared, this is also logged on our day log.

My line manager came to the house and there was not much food, I found it in the bin bags the next day, as there was plenty of food in just not bacon etc which they seem to live on.

Normal practice is that if you receive a call like this, you would check with the house manager and then check the day logs.

I have now received a letter from work dated 30 April to attend an investigatory hearing on May 4th, I thought you had 7 days? Also stated is that the statutory right to be accompanied does not apply as it is not a disciplinary hearing.

 

Last year a different manager tried to disciplining me without following any procedure or investigation. This resulted in me putting in a 6 point grievance which was up held and I received a letter of apology.

 

I have been off sick for the last two days due to my back problem, and now have had a lot of motivation kicked out of me by all this as I had been working whilst in pain. Trust is fast diminishing, and I feel a Bullying tactic being used,

 

sorry its so long winded but I needed to make sure I cover all the facts

the invitation to the Investigatory hearing states

 

to provide an explanation into " Your conduct and attitude to your line manager"

Your alleged disregard for the welfare of residents"

 

 

What do i do now:|

[lbruk]

Interesting,

 

OK, first, it isn't 7 days, its noted as a reasonable time period between receiving the letter and attending. As it is an investigation, there was no duty to the employer to inform you of the meeting.

They are also correct, there is no right to accompaniment in an investigation meeting.

 

Email, the problem with having a good working relationship is that at any point either party can turn around and say - i don't like that any more - and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

If you have the minutes to your meetings, and the records of your logs etc, then i don't see that there is much to argue about. You have done things as you have said you would and as was agreed in a meeting. If the manager wants to change things then that is up to them, but they should communicate their wishes.

 

I'd attend, armed with your facts, and stay calm and collected, answer his questions and state your facts.

 

Let us know how you get on

[moll 61]

He wont be there, another line manager and head of admin to take notes

[moll 61]

Most disturbing is the allegation of witholding food money, it was written in the communication book ( for any staff to see) very accusative, since he had the day log to hand and my 7 years of nothing like this ever happening, had access to call me out of hours as i was the On Call manager,I was absolutely Livid as it was just a nasty vindictive attempt to get someone in trouble.

What I am asking is , what is my recourse to this?

 

many thanks

[lbruk]

Well I think you firstly need to go to the meeting and see exactly what they are accusing you of. Without that information it's hard to judge whats going on in their heads.

[papasmurf1cx]

This manager seems to have it in for you. I agree with the above, but I would also go on the attack and put in a grievance about bullying and lying to you. If you have it all logged and it is minutes, the investigator will see that perhaps it is the manager who is in the wrong here.

 

You could ask for a reasonable time delay as a reasonable adjustment to their procedure, thereby give you some time to get it together in a structured way. Trying to cope with this whilst in pain is not reasonable and if they refuse could be seen as discriminatory for failing to allow a reasonable adjustment.

[moll 61]

Thank you Papa Smurf I regrettably will be putting in a grievance, for such a serious allegation, and as it is in effect abuse I'm being accused of, I feel I should be suspended. Of which I have no particular fear. I posted last year re a disciplinary which I have mentioned in this thread, the middle management here are incompetant and quite unproffesional at times, and enjoy the authority side of things rather than the responsibility side, all this is quite avoidable but unfortunately egos are in the way:|

[papasmurf1cx]

You might want to look at this and drill down to specifics from the facts you know and the inside information you may have. http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc47.aspx

[moll 61]

Investigatory hearing went well, all questions asked I had documentary evidence for, Now I just need to put in my Grievance re bullying. Does anyone know anything of "inferred work practice?" where official policies are "short cut" and is standard throughout the work place? (I'm not in trouble for doing this) but as it does go on throughout the workplace on many things I would just like to be forarmed, thank you

[moll 61]

am now with a heavy heart putting together my grievance.

False and malicious allegation (re witholding food) I have evidence where a couple of weeks ago I popped into the hostel whilst on a day off sick to give money for food, logged. False because as is documented I did not withold food, maliscious as he could have called me at home (being i was the on call manager) and sorted it out, he wanted to make it official due to the discussion on internet!

Neglect. I have checked my logs, since the first discussion re the internet and loan saga, despite me being on reduced hours with a scknote due to medication and pain, had not one call of support or visit in 5 weeks, I have just been signed off for 4 weeks, but hopefully with a rest I hope to be back sooner.

He has visited all other managers in that time.

I fear this is a power thing, a) as I have many more years experience in this work, b) his stock answer to all my questions is " I dont have to justify myself to you, who the **** do you think you are questioning my actions.

These are the main things I would want to mould in to a Grievance there is plenty of evidence of him not doing his job properly, but I do not want to turn this into a cat fight

[papasmurf1cx]

am now with a heavy heart putting together my grievance.

False and malicious allegation (re witholding food) I have evidence where a couple of weeks ago I popped into the hostel whilst on a day off sick to give money for food, logged. False because as is documented I did not withold food, maliscious as he could have called me at home (being i was the on call manager) and sorted it out, he wanted to make it official due to the discussion on internet!

Neglect. I have checked my logs, since the first discussion re the internet and loan saga, despite me being on reduced hours with a scknote due to medication and pain, had not one call of support or visit in 5 weeks, I have just been signed off for 4 weeks, but hopefully with a rest I hope to be back sooner.

He has visited all other managers in that time.

I fear this is a power thing, a) as I have many more years experience in this work, b) his stock answer to all my questions is " I dont have to justify myself to you, who the **** do you think you are questioning my actions.

These are the main things I would want to mould in to a Grievance there is plenty of evidence of him not doing his job properly, but I do not want to turn this into a cat fight

 

It is a cat fight. You are either right or you are wrong. The point is that by putting in the grievance you are challenging his authority. Now senior management either back him by stating that your bullying allegations have no foundation (even if they have they will ignore it) or they back you up and turn on him.

 

You have to realise this has got to end and if you don't win then perhaps the bullying will get worse and force you to leave or they will engineer your exit. Prepare yourself for a rocky ride. The ride may go on for many many months.

[Anus Horribilis]

It is a cat fight. You are either right or you are wrong. The point is that by putting in the grievance you are challenging his authority. Now senior management either back him by stating that your bullying allegations have no foundation (even if they have they will ignore it) or they back you up and turn on him.

 

You have to realise this has got to end and if you don't win then perhaps the bullying will get worse and force you to leave or they will engineer your exit. Prepare yourself for a rocky ride. The ride may go on for many many months.

 

I agree. If you submit this grievance, he will react you as you did when you were accused. He'll be angry, hurt, defensive, and eager to fire something back. It will go on until one of you leaves, probably very unhappily.

 

In your position I would consider asking for a private, informal meeting with him. Have lunch, drink wine, tell war stories, try to establish some rapport and trust in each other. It's worth a try before playing Russian Roulette with the conduct and grievance manuals.

[moll 61]

Thanks for that Anus Horribilis, I have tried that already, even though it is a very vindictive and nasty slur on me, I invited him for coffee out of work to find a solution, the only reply I received was the letter re the investigatory hearing. I feel he has acted in anger and his bruised ego will not allow him to back down. I have plenty of official documentation to back me and much much more. I am the kind of person who will take a kicking rather than back down to a bully, as i stated previously it is with a heavy heart I will have to go through the grievance procedure, I have the backing of my colleagues even though the manager in question is quite popular, as the comment in the communication book is so accusative, and the neglect I am accused of is something they all know I would never do, I even found a daylog entry from a week before when I was off sick and I went in specifically to give out food money. I am awaiting a copy of his entry in the communication book and I will post it on here with my day log entries the day before, so caggers have the full info, as I want to do this profesionally and not stray from the facts. I dont want the guy to get into trouble over this (even though he is prepared to drop me in it) and will receive retribution through a Starbucks and an apology

[moll 61]

Copy of entry I asked for from Communication book not arrived but a letter stating I am on half pay as from May 2nd, thought they may have let me know earlier

[moll 61]

I am now preparing my Grievance

it will be "False and malicious allegation" False as I have documentary evidence that I behaved correctly, and malicious due to the spat with my line manager, though i have 2 weeks left on my sick note I will be going back to work on monday to Head Office to collate substantial evidence to prove the malicious side i.e. he has singled me out by criticising my work (by notes) left but Also since the spat he has not contacted me during the 5-6 weeks between the original spat and the allegation re the neglect of residents. Being I was on amended duties as explained before I would expect some sort of support especially on the manual side of the job, clearing abandoned rooms etc. I will also be asking for a return to work scheme that would entail me doing interviews and paperwork at head office

is this reasonable?

 

The advice you guys give on here is not only valuable but is gratefully received

 

I read on one of the threads on here something about an in house "union" does any one have any knowledge of this?

 

we have about 20 staff not including middle management and above, and as a charity is it reasonable to ask that a staff represntative be included in board meetings?

 

Many thanks in advance and in retrospect for the support I have received on here

Edited May 19, 2012 by moll 61
re wording

[moll 61]

Hi again

Papasmurf was right it appears to be turning into a catfight. As I accepted the offer of mediation first, this was two weeks ago, and nothing is forcoming as i write.

I receved a fit to work note from my Doctor as I was signed off for four weeks due to my back, but felt improvement following a change of medication, the Doctor had previously put on an amended duties note that occasionly after taking medication, I would be unfit to work because of drowsiness, which work were fine with, now I have this spat with my line manager the goal posts seemed to have changed, I am now working at head Office 14 miles away as I am able to do administrive duties, just not run a Hostel where i would be clearing abandoned rooms, loads of stairs and steep hills.

My operation manager welcomed me into head office, then following day called me in to a meeting with my new line manager and my old line manager (The sight of him at present makes my blood boil) to say. " You are now working for X and Y is here as it concerns his team. You are reminded that here it is 9-5" I mentioned that I was on strong medication and occasionly may have to finish early. "that is not on you present fit to work note" I was told to get another amended duties note, which I have today, stating what medication I am on, no heavy lifting and to be aware of occasional drowsiness due to anelgesia.

I was pulled to one side by my new line manager to say (apologetically) that what I was told yesterday still stands 9-5.

Ten minutes later I was asked by my line manager for my Doctors name and number (no reason given).

I gave it to them (no permission asked if they could contact her).

As I have not heard from the Operations manager re the mediation (what is a fair time to give them?) I feel I will ahve to submit the original Grievance,

It feels like Dark clouds are rolling in, the strange thing is with my mortgage Insurance If i was on sick on half pay (which I'm not) I would be about £100 a month better off, I am trying tohelp a short staffed charity but my way now appears to be getting more obstacles placed there. am I fighting a losing battle?

[papasmurf1cx]

moll you may well be fighting a losing battle. On the other hand you may also feel that their behaviour has to be challenged.

 

If you put the grievance in, it might be better to remain sick because if it is their actions that are the subject of complaint that complaint may end in the ET. Removing you labour because of illness, especially if caused by them in the first place, is logical, remaining their is complying with THEIR agenda.

[moll 61]

moll you may well be fighting a losing battle. On the other hand you may also feel that their behaviour has to be challenged.

 

If you put the grievance in, it might be better to remain sick because if it is their actions that are the subject of complaint that complaint may end in the ET. Removing you labour because of illness, especially if caused by them in the first place, is logical, remaining their is complying with THEIR agenda.

 

 

My sickness is not down to them, it is degeneratiion of my discs (cos I'm old)

I am thinking of adding Neglect to my grievance as my line manager never contacted me at all for a month whilst on "amended duties". So no support, which "may" have had something to do with my last 2 weeks of sick.

I am an ex Prison Officer and find this behaviour always needs challenging, I never allowed bullying or harrasment on my wing, and I certainly wont put up with it aimed at me.

They failed in a disciplinary last year which I think has put their nose out of joint (thankks to the caggers) they never followed any procedure.

This time they appear to be taking advice from Croner, so I will be sticking to facts (of which I am making notes of) It is a shame, as I work with a great bunch of commited staff. But unfortunately the management are social climbers and not as passionate about the work as we are.

The guy I have the grievance against, advised me to put a false claim in after xmas for lost bus tickets. I was getting a lift in and tried to claim petrol money I was paying to the person I was getting a lift off. They wouldnt pay and i accepted that. then was advised to put in the false claim. which of course I didnt do.

[papasmurf1cx]

" then was advised to put in the false claim." = crime Look at Incitement http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/inchoate_offences/#P20_588 Can you prove this emails memo ?????

[moll 61]

Unfortunately not.

Just an example of double standards

I normally do not claim my mileage, but it was a 2 month stint of nights, so was costing a fair bit.

What I really need to know is was I neglected?

am I being now? My Doc has given a full list of meds I am on, which they asked for.

The Ops manager likes to rule by fear, yet interestingly enough my Chief Executive said "between you and me he is more scared of you" ?

[papasmurf1cx]

I am not sure what will be achieved by adding 'neglect' ??? !!! Perhaps that is the wrong wording.... is there a sickness Policy that management is supposed to follow? They say these are written for the 'support' of the worker, but actually it is to put pressure on you. However if the manager did not follow a policy of checking up on you or ensuring that someone did so then perhaps that is a grievance.

[moll 61]

This manager seems to have it in for you. I agree with the above, but I would also go on the attack and put in a grievance about bullying and lying to you. If you have it all logged and it is minutes, the investigator will see that perhaps it is the manager who is in the wrong here.

 

You could ask for a reasonable time delay as a reasonable adjustment to their procedure, thereby give you some time to get it together in a structured way. Trying to cope with this whilst in pain is not reasonable and if they refuse could be seen as discriminatory for failing to allow a reasonable adjustment.

 

 

Due to the times I take my medication would it then be a reasonable request to work 8-4, and does Disability rights affect me as i am temporarily disabled?

[papasmurf1cx]

Due to the times I take my medication would it then be a reasonable request to work 8-4, and does Disability rights affect me as i am temporarily disabled?

 

You have the wrong idea of what disabled means.

 

Try and think of it as 'less able' and that the problem is the disability not the effects of medication.

 

So 3 discs damaged = 'disability' Disability = more than 12 months or likely to last more than 12 months. Disability AFFECTS my ability to undertake activities of daily living eg walking, standing, etc. The medication helps to cope but does not cure it. So to mitigate these affects you have to do X Y & Z So approach employer and ask for reasonable adjustments to help you do this. These have to be Reasonable and therein lies a potential dispute between you and employer as to whatand what is not reasonable.

 

It is wise when asking for RA to indicate what the problem is and the reasonable solution to it so the employer only has to say 'yes'. When they say NO then you are back in grievance territory.

[moll 61]

Makes good sense, Thank you very much Papasmurf, seems this is getting long winded and now needs to be dealt with in seperate threads

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I haven't read all of your thread this evening, but I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to start a new thread. The advisors here generally like to keep all the information together, so it's easier to find. Making it easier for them gets you more help.

 

Papasmurf might be a good person to give you an opinion on whether a new thread is needed. I know you don't like information too spread around, do you papa?

 

My best, HB