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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
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In over my head with Parking Fines & Bailiffs and have no Idea!!! Equita, Whyte & Co JBW


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OK, WD, I'll relax now ... :D

 

You actually worry and need to relax?

 

To be honest Rae ...so many bailiffs over the years so I only worry now if the postman doesn't bring a threatening letter and I'd get lonely if the bailiffs stop knocking at the door. :-):-)

WD

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Managed to get hold of the Te9 and 7 forms but wanted to ask if its me that has to sign at the bottom as a witness or do I have to get someone else to sign? Thank you

 

You sign them.

 

That's the key difference between TE7/9 and PE2/3. PE2/3 needs counter-signing by a commissioner of oaths; TE7/9 does not.

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In regards to the te9 forms I have filled them out but haven't got the date of contravention for the 5 PCN's with equita. Do you think this matters or not, can I just send them off any way as I wanted to get them any off today ASAP. Thank you

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Thank you, I sent the te9 forms off today recorded delivery and I've got proof of me residing at my address for each year I've loved here through a council tax bill, gas bill and dep letters. I will be photocopying them tomorrow and sending the te7 forms with the proof of addresses recorded delivery. I have also drafted my email to havering council and have put together all the letters I have ever revived from equita Inc. 2 breakdowns of fees and will send them in the post after emailing them. All I have to do next is email newham and barking and dag council and forward copies to bailiffs also with covering letters. Getting there but by bit but starting to feel a whe lot better.

 

Fingers crossed, but will keep updating

 

THANK YOU

 

It meant to say dwp letters

 

Sorry about the spelling it's the phone I'm using

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I have sent them separately will this gave an effect on my chances? There was 5 PCN's which is 2 forms each so I've sent off 10 in total as I sent the other TE form off today with the proof of address evidence

 

That's 10 separate envelopes I've sent off in total

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Yes, this could cause problems. Just a TE7 is unlikely to be processed, and just a TE9 is unlikely to be processed. It depends whether the various staff at TEC who open the mail realise what is going on and put them all together for you.

 

Are you able to fill them out again?

 

Use one TE7 and list all the PCN numbers at the top. And use one TE9 and list all the PCN numbers at the top. Send them together in the same envelope, with your supporting documents.

 

If you do that, I think you will be fine. If not, it might cause complications.

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Going to get the 2 forms printed off again tomorrow and send them off altogether with evidence. Thank you

 

Thank you for letting me know and I agree JBW were so rude on the phone and threatening it put me off ever speaking to them again. I have sent the TE forms off with evidence together recorded delivery and

 

yesterday I emailed havering council and know will be emailing equita with a brief cover note attached and sending all evidence in the post to havering council. Newham and barking and dagenham are my next Port of call to email over the weekend. Thank you all so much

 

I need some help ASAP I have received a letter today just now posted by total mail from why're and co saying

Take Formal Notice

Warning of further legal action

It then gives details of the fine and states I owe £506.44 even though I have my £100 payments towards this already)

 

My vehicle had been assigned to out bailiffs for removal

This may involve a clamping unit immobilising my vehicle prior to it's seizure for sale at public auction.

be advised that such action will involve additional costs of approx £300

This latest will give me one last chance to OAU the liability before such action is taken....

 

What shall I do? I gave done a te7 and 9 form to send off today recorded but they have got my actual address now so could wake up to a clamped car!!!!

Please help me. Thank you

 

From whyte and co sorry posted via royal mail

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As soon as TEC get your forms, they should instruct the council to instruct the bailiff to put things on hold. You are in that tricky window when you have done everything you can, but your case won't have been processed yet - you only sent it today.

 

There is the issue of the papers you sent a couple of days ago - they could yet be logged and the case suspended.

 

Meantime, your options are:

 

1. Call the council and try and tell them you've already submitted your witness statement to TEC and try and pursuade them to put the bailiffs on hold.

 

2. Call the bailiffs and tell them the same.

 

3. Make sure your car is hidden away from the house so they are unkely to find it.

 

Your papers should get processed during the coming week and then there will be some breathing space, before the council contact you.

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Just to update you that I received back today the original te9 forms and was asked to re send them along with the te7 forms together with an explanation etc. This Is what I have done already so in the mean time I'm hiding my car away for a bit a pray really. Sent it off with proof of each year I haveli ed at my address for (since 2009) so I'll update ASAP hopefully. Thank you

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Just to say that sent the forms off. TEC came back to say I can't use 1 form for 5 different PCN's so had to fill out five forms for TE7 and 5 for the TE9 and faxed them in the end. Today I got a letter saying any PCN's received before 31st match 2008 have to be filled out on PE2 andPE3 forms but I got the PCN just last year but can't remember

The date. Emailed TEC and see what they have to say

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Oh, this is ridiculous. I have seen countless forms with multiple PCNs on - it simplifies things. I wonder why they are being so awkward. I've just read back over the thread a bit and noticed that there may be three different councils involved? That could be why.

 

And they won't accept one of them unless you use a PE2 and PE3? I suppose you will just have to do it the way they say. Trouble with the PE2/3 forms are that when you sign them, they need to be witnessed before a commissioner of oaths. You will need to take them (completed but unsigned) down to the desk at your local county court and ask them to witness them for you. You have to swear an oath and sign them in front of the desk officer, and they will stamp them for you. Then you can send them off to TEC.

 

Well done TEC for making things stupidly complicated!

 

In terms of finding out the dates of the PCNs, a phonecall to the relevant council(s) would be quickest.

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The 5 PCN's were all from the same council. I'm going to pop to my county court tomorrow to get the PE forms done but it is so annoying and they are making it really difficult. Getting there though and still awaiting a reply from the councils who I emailed

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I am sorry everyone but I have not posted on this thread as I have been so busy finishing my response to the Consultation Paper on Bailiff Reform that closes next Monday.

 

EXCELLENT advise from everyone here but can I please correct a few mistakes:

 

JAMBERSON

 

Personally, I would agree that Out of Time Applications are the correct way forward. All enforcement will now be on hold for approx 7-8 weeks and bailiff action must cease.

 

Let me assure you that from a GREAT DEAL OF EXPERIENCE with TEC they do not try to make such applications difficult. Instead....they try to make them IMPOSSIBLE. The reason is simple. Each local authority have to pay a "registration fee" of £7 for each PCN. TEC last year processed approx 1.7 million registrations and received approx £13 million from their local authority CLIENTS !!!

 

As long as you always remember that their CLIENT is the local authority you cant go wrong !!!

 

Next....It is beyond belief that they are continuing to ask that for some camera enforcement cases that they require the PE3 & PE3 to be completed. Complete and utter blxxdy nonsense.

 

Point One: TEC stopped accepting "multiple" PCN's on the same form at least 3 years ago. Individual forms are needed for EACH PCN.

 

Point Two: On the bottom of both the TE7 and TE9 there is a box for the signature. If the forms are sent by email TEC accept the forms with the name TYPED.

 

Point Three: On both forms the vehicle owner only needs to provide the PCN number and VRM (vehicle registration number). You do not need to provide the date or location of the contravention.

 

Point Four: It is ALWAYS the case that the completed forms should be sent to TEC by EMAIL.....and as long as the forms reach TEC by 4pm they will be processed that same day. Sending by post should be avoided at all cost as the forms can take up to 5 days from the date of posting to be processed by TEC.

 

MUNKSEY.

 

Can you let us know how old your car is and roughly how much it is worth. Also, is there any finance on the car?

 

Due to Munksey's vulnerability, I hope that nobody minds if I send a PM to her to offer to assist with the forms.

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My car is a 51 plate peugeot 206 but is not in great condition in regards to the body work and I reckon is worth around £500 due to a start up problem it has.

 

With the PCN they wanted me to complete the PE forms I emailed them to say that the parking contravention happened last year 2011 not before march 31st 2008 so do not see why I have to complete the PE forms but will if I have to and scanned the letter they sent to me and attached it to the email and await there reply.

 

The five separate PCN's that I have re done on all individual TE forms and attached a proof of address for each year I have lived at my property (2009,2010,2011 and 2012) I am going to do recorded delivery but could try to do them by email today by 4pm. The other 2 I sent which are PCN's with Newham council I have not heard anything back from so I'm hoping they are all ok and await to hear back from TEC. I did fax TEC too with the 5 sets of TE forms but are going to do recorded delivery also.

 

Please feel free to ask me any questions

 

Thank you

 

There is no finance on the car, sorry forget to mention

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Point Four: It is ALWAYS the case that the completed forms should be sent to TEC by EMAIL.....and as long as the forms reach TEC by 4pm they will be processed that same day. Sending by post should be avoided at all cost as the forms can take up to 5 days from the date of posting to be processed by TEC.

 

 

If TEC are insisting that she use the PE2/3 system, the forms need to be counter signed and stamped. How do you suggest they are emailed? Are you saying they should be scanned and pdfs sent on?

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Jamberson.

 

It never ceases to amaze me WHY they continue to use the PE2 & PE3 !!! If the vehicle owners car has ben clamped it is impossible to get transport to take the form to a solicitors to witness ( £5 swearing fee will be applied) or to the local county court.

 

With the PE2 & PE3 we nearly always suggest that the signed form is then scanned and sent by email and to be on the safe side...sent by FAX or post as well.

 

As many on here will know, we have a commercial business and have assisted with quite a few thousand Out of Time Witness Statements and we find that probably one application out of 25 is one where TEC require the PE2 & PE3. It is for this reason that we will ALWAYS suggest completing the TE7 & TE9.

 

If the TE7 & TE9 are submitted by email and are the wrong forms, TEC will send an email back to advise that they cannot process the application as it was on the wrong form and they will then provide a link to the correct form.

 

Also, although TEC "claim" that the PE2 & PE3 are for contraventions that took place before 2008...this is NOT strictly true. On yesterday we were advised by TEC that an application needed to be on the PE2 and the contravention was a TFL one from last August. As I have I said many times.......TEC make their own rules as they go along and the place needs SERIOUS investigation !!!

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