Accused of Benefit Fraud such a mess !!!!!!!

[Nystagmite]

They then went on to a Virign Media bill which they had taken from my home. My ex-partner pays this bill each month as part of his agreed maintenence payment for the kids.

 

Is there any proof of this?

[assisted blonde]

When you were first arrested was your ex arrested at the same address as you? Just reading through your posts it does seem that your ex spends quite a bit of time at your house which may have led to it looking like he was living with you. Does he have his own house and if so does he have a mortgage/rent book etc? utility bills at another address, who agreed the maintenance agreement for the children was it done through a solicitor or is it just an agreement between you, things like this can help you to show that he dosnt live with you or lack of them could lead DWP to belive he does live with you.

[dottyaussie]

The bill was paid by direct-debit from his account. He had come round that morning to take middle son to football, so son never got to football match. He has most of his mail from his house including bills for water, elec, gas etc , fines, letters from kids school, letters from HMRC regarding tax & NI, payslips from work, car insurance & tax and also letters from council regarding council tax. The council have been taking money from his wages for owed council tax.

The maintenance arrangement was between us and like I said when we were asked to go in for a IUC a few years ago DWP were happy with the arrangement we had.

[charlie's cat]

Deep breaths, Dottie.

 

You need to google for the email address/telephone number of your local MP and get them onto this.

 

One of the first things to mention is that you are mentally/physically vulnerable and you are severely struggling to cope with this and require assistance asap.

 

Do it today.

[Nystagmite]

You should be able to find your MP's contact details on theyworkforyou

[dottyaussie]

Thank you . My neighbour is here with me now as I was getting abit fraught with all this and we have just sent the letter via email. We were just saying its funny because our local mayor lives next door to my neighbour, I first met them when i moved in and know them well now and at christmas his wife (formally know as lady mayoress) brought me a christmas card and asked if my ex would be coming round to see the kids over christmas !!! So even they know we don't live together.

[assisted blonde]

Thats good that he has plenty of utility bills etc at his own house as it can only help your case not hinder it. It is a situation where someone has to be able to show that he is either living with you or he isnt and the more proof that he has his own house/bills/life etc the better.

[jabba jones]

I think this is now beginning to make more sense. I presume from what the police told you the investigators had reason to believe you had been committing fraud since 2006. However they only had evidence from 18/11/11 (the surveillance?). The arrest & search was in order to look for evidence from an earlier date. The disallowance from 18/11/11 would suggest this was unsuccessful.

 

Your current overpayment is £1600 but it sounds like there will also HB & CTB to be added to this. To prosecute they look for overpayments of over £2000, although whether they have enough evidence to prosecute is another point all together.

 

It may sound harsh & it does look like your local FIS have a very good relationship with the police but for the right case arrest & search is not unreasonable.

 

It doesn't relate to this case but from what I've read new FIS targets (that have started this week), mean they will now only be interested in cases that are prosecutable and/or have large overpayments. More prosecutions means more evidence & therefore the arrest option might be used more often.

[dottyaussie]

Hi jabba, the letter of 22 March says my ESA is disallowed from 18/11/11, the FIS had already suspended my ESA from 18/1/12, I have not received any ESA since then. So does that mean the overpayment would be from 18/11/11 to 18/1/12 a total of 2 months ??? Then why in the letter does it say "We have used the tax years 2009 and 2010 to asses your claim" ???

Also the council have 'temporarily suspended' HB & CT from 2/4/12. Pending what ??? Their investigator was at the IUC's.

Its still not making sense to me

[Nystagmite]

Then why in the letter does it say "We have used the tax years 2009 and 2010 to asses your claim" ???

 

When you make a claim for ESA (or JSA) they check whether you're first entitled to contributions based. What they've said, is "we have checked to see if you're entitled to contributions based" and if that's no or you're entitled to the disability premiums, then they check with income based.

[worried33]

OMG I have just read through my last post and now I feel like I am living through the whole thing again. So anyway at the end of July 2011 a week after the traumatised attendance at tribunal regarding ESA I ended up in hospital with severe stomach pains I had been having for the week. My anxiety and panic attacks are mainly due to my health so I was in a state. After several test I was found to have a 10cm mass on my left ovary. Then came the test for the cancer !!! I was in hospital for just over a week during which time I told my ex that this was it I obviously had it and now he had to step up and look after the kids. My dad and my sister were starting to make plans to come over. Thankfully the test came back clear but I still had to have a operation to remove mass. Had operation where they cut me open from belly button to pubic area. Next day I had two seperate visits from very sorry looking surgeon and consultant to say they had found nothing wrong, all internal bits were healthy including bowel which they looked through because they couldnt find mass anywhere else. The mass turned out to be my uterus !!!

So the time I was in hospital the ex stayed at my house to look after the kids and on & off till the end of till August when he went to see his mum. When he returned he again had stayed on & off as my health was deteriorating as I was trying to deal with all the hospital stuff, failing the tribunal, reclaiming, having my medication increased. I felt as if I was in a complete alternate universe. My ex and I told the DWP & Council about all this at the interview as I thought this is what it was about. My ex did speak to Jobcentre plus about being a carer but was told he would not be able to claim for it.

So since all the arresting thing happened my docter has prescibed me with diazapam, arranged for me to have CBT which I have had five sessions of now, and I have a carer who comes round twice a week.

 

I can understand, since I got kicked of my IB I have had bad anxiety, depression and my other health problems have started getting worse again, I am convinced its the result of the stress and extra physical demands heaped on me.

[dottyaussie]

Hi just thought I would give an update.......the basics were I was arrested on 4/12/11, the FIS had decided I was LTAHAW from 20/1/09 to 26/6/11, HB was 20/1/09 to 2/4/12 and CT 20/1/09 to 28/3/12. The total amound of this was around £30,000. My ESA was stopped by FIS on 4/1/12.

 

I appealed the decision in April 12.

 

I was then charged with failure to notify change in circumstances in Dec 12.

 

I finally had my court date of 20/05/13.

 

While waiting to appear, my solicitor had told me it would be better if I pleaded guilty to at least some of the time so, I said ok they can have from 26/6/11 to 4/12/11.

 

This was the time I had been in hospital and after that fiasco had a complete mental break down.

 

My soliciter went to the prosecution with this and came back with they would agree if I agreed to 1/6/11 instead of 26/6/11 and they would offer no evidence. Obviously I agreed.

 

So at the hearing I was found guilty of 'failure to notify' from 1/6/11. The date for HB was now 1/6/11 to 2/4/12, CT was now 1/6/11 to 28/3/12 and ESA 1/6/11 to 26/6/11. Total amount now £5,500.

 

I received a 12 month supervision order and have to take part in a Support for Change Program run by Mental Health Services.

 

Two days later I had my Tribunal hearing for the original appeal I had put in place before I was charged. Well that went completely the other way !!!! The appeal was disallowed and some of the things the Judge said about me in her decision were just horrible.

 

Does anyone know which decision stands ??

 

Because the day after the first court hearing and before the tribunal hearing had been heard I received a letter from HB saying they were taking £10 a week off my HB stating that 'The deductions shown form the basis of this agreement, and whilst this remains in place no further recovery action will be taken.'

 

My HB and CT had been re-instated after my landlord contacted them in Dec last year. He received the HB back-dated to the 2/4/12.

 

I have been told by the Probation Service and my support workers that once I had the dates I was being charged with I should have still been receiving my ESA from that date and also I had an appeal in place. Unfortunately no-one had advised me of this so I have been without ESA since 4/1/2011.

 

My attempts to sort out my ESA with the benefits office have been a nightmare so far. Each time I have contacted them I have been given four different reasons why the ESA was not re-instated. First one was that it said on my file that I am still living with a partner, next it was because I hadn't sent in sick notes, then it was because my contributions had run out and thats why my last payment was 4/1/12 (I was on income-related ESA and it was the FIS that stopped my benefits), then lastly it was because they hadn't received the decision.

 

Surely they would know that the end date was the 26/6/11 !!!!!!!

Edited June 29, 2013 by dottyaussie

[kk3852]

Both decisions stand.....you have pleaded guilty to a criminal offence for a shorter period - this has been bargained down from the full overpayment by your legal team and is for the period that they have the

strongest evidence. The recalculated overpayment of £5,500 is the amount that they can prove beyond all reasonable doubt and has been used for sentencing purposes only and does not affect the total overpayment which needs to be paid back

 

The tribunal deals on the balance of probability - think of this as 51%/49%. The tribunal have presumably decided that there is sufficient evidence on the balance of probabilities that your benefit has been overpaid for the whole period and therefore the original overpayment remains the same and is repayable.

 

The advantage of bargaining down the overpayment at Court (against all reasonable doubt) is that the smaller the overpayment the less the punishment for a criminal offence. An overpayment of around £30k would be considered for a prison sentence.

[abc123def]

dotty, if you haven't been receiving ESA all this time, what have you been living on?

[dottyaussie]

Hi I have been receiving Child Benefit and Child Tax Credits and the occasional payment of child support from the children's father. I did make a claim for child support through the child support agency because his payments were occasional but while it was going through he became redundant.

[dottyaussie]

Just to clarify a couple of things. Originally there were 4 charges. 1. Income Support 20/1/09 - 7/4/10 2. ESA 8/4/10 - 26/6/11 3. Housing Benefit 3. Council Tax

 

Before the court hearing when it was negotiated the first charge was dropped and 2,3,4 were reduced. At the court hearing it was adjourned so they could re-assess the amount as they also had to include the entitlement of DLA. When I went back to court it seems everyone had forgotton about the DLA as it wasnt mention and the case went ahead anyway.

 

The fact that the first charge was dropped and the entitlement to DLA were not mentioned at the tribunal either. Neither was the fact that HB had evidence that would prove that, as the judge put it, 'The address the partner had was a sham' was in fact not a sham at all, he did actually live there.

[LifeIsAMess]

Why were they including entitlement to DLA? Surely this is completely separate?

[dottyaussie]

Ok this living nightmare continues. As mentioned before my ESA was suspended on 12 Jan 2012 pending an investigation. Since my court hearing and tribunal hearing in June 2013 I have been trying to find out when my ESA will be reinstated. The court gave me 12mths probation and because of my mental health problems I had to attend a 12 week program with Support for Change with a mental health support worker (this is still ongoning as it was extended as I still need the support). I will try to recap as simply as possible bearing in mind that I had made a claim for ESA on 8th July 2011 backdated to 23/6/11 which I was receiving until as said before till the 12 Jan 2012.

 

Charge 1 Income Support 2009/2010

Charge 2 Council Tax 2009/2012

Charge 3 Housing Benefit 2009/2012

Charge 4 ESA 2010- 23 June 2011

 

As you can see there was no charge ever made for my ESA Claim from 23/6/11 to 12/1/12 (the date it was suspended)

 

The Tribunal Appeal was for the same dates. I had appealled the decision before I had been charged.

 

At the Crown Court Hearing 5 June 2013

 

Count 1 Income support written off

Count 2 Council Tax Reduced

Count 3 Housing Benefit Reduced

Count 4 ESA Reduced

 

At the Tribunal 21 June 2012 : All of it went in DWP/HB/CT favour. Still only till 23/6/11. CT and HB had already been reinstated from 2012.

 

On 21 June 2013 as both cases had been heard I contacted DWP to ask when ESA claim from 23 June 2011 would be reinstated. Was told my claim was still 'live' and I would need to complete a review form. Appointment was made to attend Job Centre to complete form on the following Tues.

Attended appointment at Jobcentre with mental health support worker only to be told that my appointment was on Mon. Told them I wouldn't have made appointment for Monday as I have CBT on Monday's. I was then seen by an adviser who asked why I was there and then did I have my form ?? Advised me it was only a 3 min appointment, gave me the form and made another appointment for Fri to take it back.

I was slightly late for my appointment as I had a panic attack on the way (luckily my support worker was there to meet me). I hadnt completed the form fully as there were some things I didnt understand and the advisor told me she couldnt help me with that so I would need another appointment for next week to bring back the form again.

When I got home I rang DWP . They told me I didnt need to fill in a form because my ESA had been stopped because I hadnt sent in sick notes (I didnt need to send in sick notes because I had won a previous seperate appeal regarding entitlement of this claim) They said they would ring me back. When they did they then advised my ESA was stopped because I had run out of NI contributions. I told her my claim was Income Related ESA not Contributions based. She said she would ring me back. This time she advised that my ESA had stopped because I had a partner !! I told her the cases regarding LTAHAW had been finalized and didnt concern this claim. She said she would email the changes dept as they probably wouldnt know of the decision yet. She then asked if I had a copy of the decision, I said I did have, she then said she would make an appointment for me to go to Job Centre to have it scanned. As the last appointments and phone calls were getting me more stressed and anxious I asked if I could get my support worker to bring it in. She then started to get difficult with me. So I said well can't you just email the changes dept like you said before. She said no. So made an appointment for the following Thurs. Attended appointment and had documents scanned. Attended another appointment the following week to have more documents scanned. By 24th July I hadnt heard anything so my support worker contacted DWP' and asked if we could have a home visit with an investigating officer to resolve this issue and she was advised someone would call her back to do this. By the 15th August after repeated calls no-one had contacted her or myself so she phoned them again and was told they had not received any letters or documents from me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Several enquires were made by Probation and Support Worker as to what to do next. Decided to now take case to Palimentary Ombudsmen. Had to get all paperwork organised, download forms etc. Had to send all documents to MP before he could send it to Ombudsmen. On 15th Nov MP wrote to DWP.

While waiting for a reply I received a letter from ATOS to attend a medical on 20th Nov. I contacted DWP who said I did not need to attend as I was not entiltled to benefit as I had a partner !!!!! Then received a letter dated 21 Nov asking me to provide information about why I didnt attend medical !!!!! Phoned them again they didnt know why I received the letter !!!!

 

As money has been extremely tight support worker advised I may be able to apply for the new Local Support Scheme Assistance while I was waiting to hear from MP. So I made the application giving the reason that I was waiting to hear about the reinstatement of my benefits. Received a letter from them on 17th saying that I wouldnt be getting the assistance as they had been advised by DWP that the reason I am not getting any benefits is because I did not attend the medical !!!!

 

On 23 December I received a copy of DWP email response to MP letter which states:

 

The decision states that Miss X had an underlying entitlement to ESA from April 2010 to 22 June 2011 and from 26 June to 2011.

An overpayment was raised and presented to the courts on 21 June 2013 (This was the Tribunal date).

We were informed the appeal upheld the decision therefore the overpayment remains recoverable.

 

There may be some confusion as to which overpayment was reduced. There was an Income Support overpayment for the period 2009/2010 which was written off by the courts on 5 June 2013 (This was the Crown Court date).

 

Miss X still retains her entitlement to ESA as long as she continues to satisfy the qualifiing conditions.

 

I hope you find this information useful. Signed Complaints Resolution Manager DWP.

 

------------------------------------

Received a letter from DWP on 9th Jan saying we have looked at your claim and we cannot pay you because you failed to attend a medical on 20th November.

 

Received a letter from DWP on 9th Jan saying that the contributary element of ESA can be taxable. For the period up to 20th Nov no ESA was paid. Enclosed were the P45 forms.

 

Today I received a phone call from the council regarding my HB claim. "We have been informed by DWP that you have a joint claim with a Mr X" "We have sent you a letter, could you please advise your current situation and return the letter to us" What the heck is this about now ?????????

 

I made another appointment with my MP for this week.

 

So further to the reply from DWP on one hand they agree with the Crown Court decision for Count 1 but not the decision for Count 4. They therefore disagree with the Tribunal decision for the period 2009/10 but not the decision 2010 to 23/6/11.

 

My last claim from 23/6/11 to 12/1/12 which I was never charged for and they have never asked for repayment and was not mentioned at Tribunal.

 

Incidently the two Tribunal decisions read: The Tribunal find the Appellant was overpaid benefit of £xxxx for the period 20.1.09 to 7.4.2010. And the second decision The Tribunal find the Appellant was overpaid benefit of Income based ESA from 8.4.10 to 22.6.11 amounting to £xxxx and for the period from 23.6.11 to 23.6 11 of £9.64

 

Any one have any idea whats going on ???

[kk3852]

I have to say that I have now read your post four times and I still don't understand it.

 

Just because your overpayment ran up to whatever date it was doesn't mean that you are automatically treated as not living together from the following date.

 

You probably need to make a fresh claim, declare your correct circumstances and then see if they need to do a visit to make a decision on your current living arrangements.

 

But that is only my guess as I can't make head nor tail of what has happened. Perhaps you could just concentrate on your latest claim, if you did submit a new claim after the disallowance.