Ccj

[foxyflugel]

Hi everyone

 

I have today received a court paper advising me that I have a CCJ (by default) from Arrow Global Guernsey (whoever they are) - Bryan Carter solicitors.

 

The paper has totally the incorrect address on - I haven't lived there for 11 1/2 years!! The occupier of that address has been returning all correspondence with my name on 'not known at this address'. I have no knowledge of this debt.

 

Then today they gave me this letter that they had opened by mistake - obviously seeing what it was.

 

My question is, if I ignore it - what will happen? as I am not at that address anymore and surely they can't enforce anything at that address as I don't live there?

 

Or - what do I do about it?

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[asokn]

I would suggest you read Part 6 of the CPR which deals with service and then read Part 13 which deals with setting aside a default judgment. Don't ignore this and hope it will go away because it won't.

[sleepingdog]

Hi foxyflugel, Bryan Carter is often accused of having court papers sent to previous addresses to obtain CCJs.

If you do nothing then be sure he will suddenly find your new address and threaten bailifs along with the costs involved.

Do you know what the CCJ is for.

If you know the claim number then you could phone the court to find out some information and ask for a copy of the claims and judgement.

If you could prove that you did not receive the claim due to incorrect address then you could apply to have the judgement set aside, but you would also show that you have a good chance of defending claim.

So find out what CCJ is for, then see if it is likely you could defend case ,if so go for set aside.

It is worth doing a search on this site for cases involving Bryan Carter if only to let you realise that he can be defeated.

I know as a friend also got a CCJ from good old Bryan that she was not aware of. She was able to find out that the debt did not exist and went for a set aside which she did get.

You will get lots of help on this site as many posters detest the ways BC operates.

sleepingdog

[asokn]

Just to clarify the above, if the court was to find that the pleadings weren't served then you would be entitled to have the judgment set aside on that basis alone; you wouldn't also need to show any prospect of successfully defending the claim.

[sillygirl1]

You can check on the Registry Trust site to see if he has issued a claim, if he has issued it at an old address then it is invalid and can be set aside, you can then defend and chase him for costs....

 

You also need to put in a report to the OFT, Trading Standards and the Solicitors Regulatory Authority.

[foxyflugel]

Wow - thanks guys - this is really helpful info.

 

I was tempted just to ignore it tbh - until someone posted on here that BC suddenly finds out your new address!!

 

The previous correspondence from these muppets has all been returned to them 'not known at this address' - they have also been calling this addresses telephone and they have been told numerous times I don't live there - so clearly they knew.

 

This is completely wrong and they seem to be allowed to get away with it - how can you defend anything if they are sending it to the wrong address.

 

I will get onto it first thing Monday and apply for a set aside due to wrong address being used. Is the court claim still valid if they quote your incorrect address?

 

Many thanks for your help everyone.

 

Foxy

[asokn]

Is the court claim still valid if they quote your incorrect address?

 

I'll suggest again that you have a look at Parts 6 and 13 of the CPR.

[sleepingdog]

Hi foxy, If you get set aside then it puts the claim back to the begining so be aware that if BC did have a valid claim then he could start all over again this time with your correct address so you really need to find out more about the debt in question to allow you to find flaws and blow him out of the water.

sleepingdog

[foxyflugel]

Hi SD

 

My plan was to apply for a set aside tomorrow and then I can get more details of this debt - I really don't recognise it!! They have my new address and have had it for the last 11 1/2 years - as everyone had when I moved. I can't really find out about the debt without applying for the set aside first. It would appear that this is the 'norm' for BC - use an old address so they get judgement by default and then apparently find out your new address (which they will have had all along) - I am wondering if it could be statute barred and if this is why they have done the underhanded tactics that they have!! Tbh, it did cross my mind just to ignore it, but then someone on here said that they all of a sudden then find your present address and send the baliffs in - another indication that they have your correct address all along. I really do hate gutless tactics

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Forgot to add - I received a letter from a company called 'Moneysense' - it said - we're sorry to hear about your recent CCJ - it had the amount and all the other intricate details etc - saying we can help you sort it out and will pay £40 court costs blah blah blah. How have they sent this to my correct address ? if this CCJ has been obtained at my old address - is this anything to do indirectly with BC? Just thought it was strange

[sick of thames credit]

Hi Foxy, I'm going to same thing at the moment with a DCA who used the incorrect address trick to obtain a judgement by default despite knowing my real address.

 

Things I learnt and you need to start off with.

 

1) act quickly, depending on the judge you get, how long to took to apply for the set aside from first knowing about the CCJ can be a factor to not grant the set aside.

 

2) you can apply for set aside on mandatory grounds if the claim was issued at the wrong address, however there is a caveat here, a claimant can use a "LAST KNOWN ADDRESS". So it's not just a case of showing that it was the wrong address, you need to show the claimant was fully aware of your correct address

 

3) failing 2) you can still set aside on not knowing about the proceedings due to wrong address (wether claimant was/wasn't aware) AND you have a realistic prospect of winning.

 

I'd concentrate on trying have the set aside on 2) but also be prepared that should you fail 2) you have enough grounds to argue 3)

 

Although I'd clarify this with the experienced legal seagulls around here.

 

Re 3) you are going to need to post up some details aboout the allledged debt so experts here can work on this part of the defence if you need to use it.

 

Good Luck, as I say I'm going through the same thing at the moment

[sick of thames credit]

Forgot to add - I received a letter from a company called 'Moneysense' - it said - we're sorry to hear about your recent CCJ - it had the amount and all the other intricate details etc - saying we can help you sort it out and will pay £40 court costs blah blah blah. How have they sent this to my correct address ? if this CCJ has been obtained at my old address - is this anything to do indirectly with BC? Just thought it was strange

 

LOL, SNAP!

 

Recieved the same thing aswell, it's what alerted me to my CCJ. Funnily enough I got another one today (yes sunday).

 

Was it in a hand written envelope ?

[foxyflugel]

Hi SOTC - no mine was in a window envelope as I remember. I find this really weird as this was sent to my correct address :-/

 

How do I prove that they were aware of my change of address??? As I don't know who the original debt was with (if in fact it is mine) - all I know is that I changed my address with everyone and anything that has arrived since (companies not changed address accordingly) has been sent back 'not known at this address' - so they will have known I wasn't residing there. If I don't know the OC then I can't send a copy of the letter I sent to the company.

 

I am thinking this is a catch 22 situation - as if I am unable to prove they knew my correct address - then how can I show any prospect of defending a claim that I don't have details/knowledge of?? Or is this me being a bit thick due to the time of night

 

Foxy

Edited April 1, 2012 by foxyflugel

[sick of thames credit]

Hi foxy,

 

First thing, regarding the incorrect address, do you have any proof they knew your correct address ? i.e. either a letter from them or the OC creditor at your correct address or a subsequent address to which they claimed at? if not from what I understand they can use the last known address to effect service.

 

However that doesnt mean all is not lost, you can still set aside arguing that you were unaware of proceedings and if you were, you would of had a good chance of defending.

 

The difference is that with the former you can have the case set aside on mandatory grounds, the latter you will have to show the court you have a realistic defence aswell.

 

regarding the OC, this should should be shown on your case file from the court in the Particulars of claim as the POC's have to show the origin of the debt.

 

Assuming its Northampton, ring them up and they will send the paperwork in the post quite swifity if the case is still with them.

 

The other thing with these incorrect address cases, is that as discussed above they suddenly discover your new address and start enforcement action immediatly, Usually an AoE. They use Linkedin and facebook to discover your employers.

 

so there is a good chance when you ring up Northampton that the case has been already sent to your local court, if it has, pop down there and they will be able to give you paperwork there and then.

 

in all correspondence with the court either in person or on the phone you will need to quote to your claim number, this will be on your letter from the CCJ company.

 

one final tip, be very nice and polite to the court no matter how frustrated you are and awkward they are, if you're polite and courtesious enough, you will find they are actually quite reasonable with you. e.g. my first phonecall with northampton they gave me the POC's over the phone and posted over a copy of my case file the next day despite the fact the case had already been transferred. Likewise when I went to my local court, they let me know that my claimant had taken further action against me at the wrong address and the person I was dealing with at the court realised I wouldnt know about this.

[foxyflugel]

I called the court today and they advised me to call BC solicitors. A lady at BC advised me that the CCJ was on hold and admitted that they had my correct address (when it was passed over from Egg) and when I failed to reply they did a 'search' and proceeded to send all correspondence to my old address. She said that the only correspondence returned back to them was the claim form (this is a total lie!!) and they ..get this... received this back 4 days after the CCJ had been awarded. What a load of tripe - I know the mail can be a tad ropey sometimes - but 4 weeks to receive the letter!!! She said that as they had received this returned mail from that address that no enforcement action could be taken and it was on hold!!

 

I'm still tempted to go for the set aside as I can prove that Egg (as it turns out the OC is) had my correct address when they sent me the termination notice of my card and also passed this onto them.

 

Any thoughts??

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[sillygirl1]

Moneysense and another company, Equipdebt, get hold of court lists and write to people on them, they don't always have the information that the case was dropped or discontinued - they basically are trying to get you to borrow more money to pay the CCJ off....

 

I would NOT listen to BC, and go ahead with the set aside, and hit them with a good basic defence and they will discontinue - it has been proved that this company work this way and you MUST write to the court to get the set-aside - you might even find out that the debt may not be yours anyway - this too has been proved.

[foxyflugel]

Can anyone point me in the direction to any links on how to word the N244 for a set aside please.?

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

:help:

[Guest]

some info that may help

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=12_how_to_set_aside_a_judgment_in_the_county_court

Edited April 4, 2012 by Ford

[asokn]

Can anyone point me in the direction to any links on how to word the N244 for a set aside please.?

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

 

There's no need for a template as the N244 does not require any legal jargon. You should simply state in plain words the factual basis of the application, you can leave out references to the CPR and case law entirely if you don't feel comfortable with them, you can use bulletpoints if you don't want to write full paragraphs. Using a template is likely to cause more harm than good in the long run as it is the facts of your particular case that are relevant.

 

Feel free to post up your first draft for comments.

[sleepingdog]

Hi foxy, as stated before BC tend to tell many porkies, in fact when my friend went for set aside they sent the court a letter telling many porkies and even went on to state that they would not be sending anyone in person due to costs.

sleepingdog

[just_jue]

Hi, I had the same thing happen to me. I successfully got the CCJ set aside and in the end they back down with their claim.

It seems their normal underhand tactics they use to get the CCJ first then ask questions later.

Going to court wasn't too bad they did send a solicitor who tried to say the judge wouldn't set the judgement aside, but the judge wasn't too impressed when they were shown to have written to my new address but got the judgement at my old address.

 

Good luck with getting this matter sorted.

 

JJ

[foxyflugel]

Hi everyone

 

I have prepared my N244 - I wonder if you can take a look and give your opinions/guidance?

 

On section 3

 

To set aside a judgement made on xxxx date case no Xxx Claimant AG for £XXXX.

The court papers were served to the incorrect address which resulted in BC obtaining CCJ by default as I had no knowledge of these proceedings or debt.

 

I called NCC after receiving a letter from a company called Moneysense highlighting my recent CCJ.

 

After obtaining BC telephone number and case no from the court I spoke to BC and they confirmed that they had been passed my current address from OC (please see attached letter from OC with correct address stated) in April 2011. The lady at BC also stated that the court papers had been returned to them 4 days after judgement was obtained from the resident at my former address.

 

 

 

I also read in another post on here that I can speak to BC about a Consent Order and if they agree to the set aside it will save me paying for my application. Have I got this right?

 

What should I do? do you think it's worth a go?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Foxy

[sillygirl1]

Do NOT go down the consent route, Carter usually runs when properly challenged, so you would be setting yourself up for 6 years of misery if he got this debt 'via the back door' as he wanted. Make him suffer, not you.

 

Leave the letter as is and do not consider the consent route - it is not worth the aggro it will bring you in the future.

[foxyflugel]

Hi everyone

 

I have had a good look in all my old papers and have found 3 letters from various DCAs about this debt - and they are all to my correct address!! One of them is even dated 2 days after the lady at BC said they had taken over the debt!! Should I include copies of these? - more to try and evidence that if these 3 companies had my correct address then the chances are that BC did also - or do you think it would make the judge look less favourably on my application for receiving these letters and doing nothing about it?? I am going to carry on looking and try and locate a letter from BC at my correct address as this would be ideal - but I'm just thinking ahead in case I can't find one.

 

Many thanks as always for your guidance and comments.

 

Foxy