Car exchange and lost money

[ver1]

Hi guys any help would be appreciated - here goes

 

Ok I bought a Network Q approved used car from a reputable dealer at 4995 and down a 2k deposit - 8 days after having the car the water pump was wore down and it needed replaced - The noise starting the engine was bad and the car sounded like something wasnt catching - There were also other minor problems - They did offer to fix the problems under the warranty with no problem however I informed the dealer that i wanted to change the car as i wasnt satisfied with this one and they agreed to let me change - I was really happy - They did say it would cost a bit to change over and they would do it as a part exchange so im not too much out of pocket.

 

I selected another car now costing 5995 which is a great car and im delighted with it ( so far) however we just got the finance agreement in the post and it states the cost of the car is for 5995 and the finance was for 5995 - I contacted the dealer and asked why wasnt anything taken off the finance from the second car as not only had i paid a 2k deposit but also gave them back a car to use in part-exchange

 

They said the costs are justified and unfortunatley this is what it cost to excahnge the car - I said i understood that some costs would have incurred but not 2000k and a part exchange - I asked for a breakdown of the costs to see where my money had gone but was refused a breakdown - I had a meeting with the boss of the car firm who confirmed the costs were justifed however when i asked again how much did it cost he too refused and told me he wasnt willing to put his name to anything unless requested by a solicitor

 

Can anyone give me any input

 

Thank You in advanced vera

[sailor sam]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

As I see it from your account, the purchase of the original car was cancelled by mutual agreement so the deposit you paid should then be transfered to the repacement car. As that was £1k dearer than the original car, your finance amount should now be £3995. Clearly they have simply taken the original car as p/x on the replacement thus acheiving 2 sales rather than exchanging the 'faulty' car for the 'new' one.

 

You have 2 choices in my opinion, you can contact the finance co direct and explain the situ to them and that you regard the agreement as being breached by the dealer's actions and as such you will be seeking for a full refund of your deposit (obviously if you choose this option you will need to return the car to the dealer), or you tell the dealer that unless he adjusts the transaction to reflect the fact that your finance is £3995, you will seek to terminate the deal altogether as you consider the agreement to be in dispute under the SOGA.

[ver1]

Hi there

 

Firstly thank you so much for this advice and for taking the time to reply i do appreciate this alot. I will follow this through but my concern with this is that we are now over the 14 day right to terminate however the finance company were made aware of this after a few days and do have records of our concerns regarding the deposit they did advise us to speak to the dealer and arrange an amicable arrangement - We have tried this but it didn't work and they are standing by the loss of the deposit, we contacted the head office of the dealership in the UK who looked into it and agreed that the dealership acted accordingly.

 

My main concern with handing the car back and cancelling the finance which i am more than willing to do until the dispute is resolved is that the finance is in my mums name and she has 32 years of outstanding finance with the company who financed the car - The only reason i haven't gave the second car back is for this reason and this reason only and she and my dad update their cars every three years and this could effect them so i thought it better for their sake to pay for the car and fight for the deposit but i would much mich rather give it back , get my deposit back and give my business to another dealership

 

I had so much faith in these guys that i actually feel that because i have an issue with the deposit that im wrong - I bought the other car off them in good faith and din't want them to lose the business as they were willing to work with me and excahnge the car

 

My other concern is they will never depart with the deposit , i will have no car and if the credit file goes into default i won't be able to get finance for another car

 

what do you think

[sailor sam]

While understand yor concerns, I don't think the dealer has acted in your best interests. Finance isn't my strongest field but but it dosn't seem fair that your deposit has simply been consumed from a situation which started with the original car being of unsatisfactory quality. IMHO what should of happened is that the original sale should of been cancelled completely and then you should of been back to square one as it were. It seems to me that the dealer has pulled a bit of a fast one by treating your return as a simple part exchange against the replacement car so the looser is you. When in fact the dealer should of been as he sold you a car which was faulty. Under the SOGA the seller should be given the opportunity to inspect and rectify and if that fails, then you have the option of rejecting the car for a full refund (within a reasonable time frame). It seems that the dealer has 'leap frogged' that process by simply agreeing for you to return the car and exchange it for another one. the problem is, he has treated it as another purchace and excepted the faulty car as a trade in.

 

I think you should have a word with Trading Standards about this and get face to face advice. I am also hoping others may come in with financial experience who may be able to help further.

[ver1]

Hello again

 

Yes i agree with you totally - The Dealer told me he would write and cheque to clear the finance on the first car and we would start again , i wouldnt mind paying something for admin and any interest , i get that .. I met with Trading standards today and showed them the documents and explained everything , they said exactly the same as you and have taken all the documents and are now writing to this dealership asking them to refund my deposit.

 

This is a good sign right?? they wouldn't get involved if they didn't think i had a case?? - But they are now dealing on my be-half . We contacted the finance company and explained what has been going on , they asked my Mum to put everything in writing and they will get back to her but i doubt they will want to know as i suppose they dont really care who pays the money as long as its paid. I told the finance company we dont want to give this dealer another penny of our money and want to hand the car back and fight for our deposit.

 

I was originally going to keep the car , pay the monthly amounts and ty to get our deposit back but after what they have put us through I want to return the car give them no more business

 

Trading standards asked me to contact the dealer and inform them that they will be contacting them on the matter but the dealer wasnt worried at all and still insists he hasn't done a thing wrong so im thinking they genuinely believe they have acted within their rights .

 

I think if they used my 2k deposit to put towards settling the finance of the first car it means they only valued the part excahnge as £1000 - surley even as part-exchange a car at Market value £4995 would be worth more than a £1000 trade in ( just thinking out loud so not sure if this makes sense ) lol

 

I do want to bring the car back , get my deposit back and cut all ties - I know when Trading standards contact them they will tell them the same as they told me they arnt backing down at all.

 

We contacted Network Q and complained, The car manufacturer , the dealerships head office in the UK , the owner of the dealership and they all say the dealer acted accordingly and theres nothing they can do its so frustrating - They dont want to know

 

Ok im going to write to the finance company now and see if i can leave the car back and cancel the finance and let them know Trading standards are involved- although dont expect to get far with them either -

 

Just losing faith here and im actually thinking maybe trading standards might not get any joy with them either - Thank you

[sailor sam]

Well as you have got Trading Standards on your side, I doubt that the finance co will want to persue any default action. As I see it, the dealer is in breach and has given you the right to walk away from the deal. Obviously you need to reject the car as you believe it has been mis-sold to you (check with TS for a reason to reject) and will need to put that in writing. At that point you MUST NOT use the car again. You can if you wish, hand it back complete with all docs and let TS do their work. Either they will commence an action agianst the dealer in respect of your deposit or you may have to yourself. Hopefully (it seems) TS will do it for you.

[ver1]

Hello friend

 

I got a response from the dealerships head office and im still no further- I forwarded the email to Trading standards and their response didnt seem to confident either I had to take some names and that out so hope it makes sense. Im dying to give this car back even if i didnt get the 2k returned id rather they suffered the loss of the sale - I wrote to the finance company - but doubt they will care either suppose they just want someone to pay me or them

 

"Sales Complaint." From the dealership head office

 

Thank you for your email received 16 February 2012

 

I was sorry to learn you are dissatisfied with our response and can appreciate your reasons for contacting us.

As you may be aware, depending on terms and conditions some deposits are none transferable or refundable.

Upon liaising with the Sales Manager we have been advised that the deposit you paid was subtracted from your original finance agreement. Therefore, when your vehicle was traded in, the finance remaining was £2000 less.

 

As previously advised it has been confirmed that on this occasion the deposit you have paid for £2000 is none refundable. If you are dissatisfied with this response or you dispute the information we would recommend that you contact the sales manager and discuss this matter directly with him.

 

With reference to your comments about the exchange/refund of your vehicle, again, this is at the discretion of the selling dealership. Your contract of sale lies with the dealership, therefore, if you requested an exchange/refund of your vehicle, this would be their decision whether this was agreed or not.

 

As you have stated in your correspondence, the dealership have the option to repair the vehicle as well as the option to exchange or refund the cost of the vehicle. On this occasion they have exchanged the vehicle and offered you £900 as a gesture of goodwill. Due to this it has been confirmed by the sales manager that no further financial assistance will be offered

 

Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact us and for giving me the opportunity to comment.

 

"Trading standards" response to the dealerships email above

 

 

I've sent a letter to the dealership, but I cant guarantee that it will get you a better result, but at least we'll try. At least they are now admitting that they kept the £2000. However, if the reason for exchanging the car was because it was faulty, then you should not have to suffer financially. I'll be in touch when I hear something, but please don't hesitate to contact me at any time regarding this matter

Not sure what to make of TS's reply seems like they dont think they should fight for it either or seem to have given up before they take it further

 

Maybe Im beat on this but as always its nice that someone out there see's this is wrong Thank you

 

The dealership added guardx into the fianace but didn't tell me it cost 299pounds - Im disputing this also as i dint want it and they potrayed it was a complimentary gift - They offerd me 600pound as a goodwill gesture but i refused unless they gave me a breakdown of how they accounted for my 2k being lost in the sale - Not sure if i told you that

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2012 by ver1

[sailor sam]

This just confirms what I have been saying. the dealership have treated the 'exchange' as a separate sale rather than a replacement. Also, the response from their head office seems to be avoiding the issue (deliberately in my opinion.) Trading Standards however seem to be taking the same line as me, that you should not suffer financially because the original car was faulty. If you were cynical, you could be forgiven to suspect that the dealer didn't want to give you the opportunity to reject the first car because they knew that if you did, then they would of had to refund your deposit in full and start again. I think that they have deliberately miss-lead you into thinking that they were exchanging the faulty car for a replacement when in fact they have treated it as a simple part exchange. My feeling is that Trading Standards should back you into taking legal action if necessary because I think you have been, dare I use the word; Deceived into loosing your deposit legitimately. Personally I would be tempted to take the car back (as mentioned in post #6) and say they can keep it until either they change their position and refund/adjust you deposit accordingly, or see what the outcome of possible legal action will bring. If you do this, you must advise the finance co stating that as far as you are concerned the agreement is in dispute which will mean that no default action can really be taken until it is resolved.

 

I would however, follow the advice of Trading Standards or, if necessary that of a specialist solicitor. My advice may make complete sense but I wouldn't want you to risk anything which would compromise your financial position. You could however, put these suggestions/thoughts to Trading Standards which may prompt them looking into this which they may not of thought of. we also have a Vauxhall Customer Relations cagger on here named VX Max. Hopefully he will pick up on this. It would be very interesting to here what he has to say.

 

EDIT: I have actually taken the liberty of sending VX_MAX a PM drawing his attention to this thread.

Edited February 16, 2012 by sailor sam

[ver1]

Thats no problem at all - all and any advice is taken and followed though as it's not just your advice but i also agree - I also think some of this is my own stupidity as i wasnt aware that by rejecting the car i had any rights - I was so happy the dealer was letting me change the car i prob wasnt thinking of the deposit ( Meaning I assumed it would still be intact)

 

I don't think they feel that a water pump needing replaced was classed as being faulty but it wasnt just the water pump the cars engine sounded like a disel engine and it was a petrol car it also had what i can only describe as a soft sqealing noise coming from the top left of the engine but had no idea what it was but it drove me crazy , I couldn't see the indicator lights as the steering wheel blocked them and that was putting me off driving as i wasnt sure if they were on - Their service garage had to manually move the steering wheel to fix it as it wasnt self-adjusting lol

 

The car wasn't right i actually thought at one stage while driving if the person who traded in had an accident and managed to cover it up somehow without the dealer knowing - I dont know , im not an expert in cars but i had my last car for 9 years and it never had a problem -This car had 27k on the clock and the waterpump needed replaced after i drove it in 8 days -

 

I asked the sales manager to povide me with a breakdown of the costs and how it all worked out that i lost so much money but he refused and told me he wouldnt do that and that the finance info on both cars explained everything, he said if i wanted a breakdown that he was only prepared to do that for a solicitor and unfortunatley the costs to the company lost me my deposit , so i asked again to break the costs down and he wouldnt -

 

Im finding out things as i go along and i didnt know that by me telling them i didnt want the car as it had too many problems was me rejecting it but i know this now - They told me the only way was part exchange but i was also told it wouldnt cost me that much and it was the only way i could change the car - I remember saying to the dealer if you cant let me change the car i will sell it privatley but made it clear that i didnt want it - I didnt know i had any rights on changing it - If i had known this then i would have rejected it and asked for my refund - so stupid

 

I do have another email from vauxall - it was to my Mum this time so i will post it so you can have a look - It says on this email that the car had numerous faults

 

The sales manager implied that the only reason i wanted to change the car was because i didnt like the 1.0 powered engine , i was shocked and told him the reason i didnt like the car was because the waterpump needed replaced - the engine was roaring , the steeringwheel needed adjusted , the wheel allignment was off , and the electric wing mirror stuck when i tried to adjust it - I know some of these are minor but once i heard the waterpump was gone that was it , i told them i didnt want the car and asked could i change it -

 

Flipping wish i just rejected the car and asked for a refund

 

Anyway again i have read your last post and will have another read now - you seem very informative and i know this is only advice but i apprecaite it ALOT

 

They offered to fix the water pump and i said no i dont want this car and if i could change it i would -

Edited February 17, 2012 by ver1

[ver1]

Hi again

 

I noticed the car i gave back hasnt been put up for sale again and has been sitting outside their service garage - so they must be still working on it or maybe they cant sell it until the waterpump is replaced as they told me they had to order it in - The day i had the meeting with the sales guy to tell him i didnt want the car after the car was diagnosed as having a faulty waterpump they let me drive it away until a decision was made on changing - Now i know a little bit more about water pumps im wondering why as the engine could have overheated and stopped working - wish it had lol

 

Letter to Mum

 

Thank you for your email received 14 February 2012, regarding your deposit

 

I can confirm I have spoken with the Sales Manager and he advised a meeting took place to discuss the issues you had in respect of the two vehicles you purchased from them.

 

The first vehicle you purchased from them was priced at £4,995 and you paid a £2,000 deposit therefore, the price left to pay through your finance agreement was £2,995.

 

As I understand there were a number of repairs required to the vehicle therefore, you decided to purchase a second vehicle and trade your original vehicle in as a separate sale. In view of this the Sales Manager has offered you £900 as a gesture of goodwill.

 

As the two vehicles were two separate transactions your original £2,000 deposit was taken of the sale of the first vehicle you purchased therefore, this would not be refunded.

 

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us and for allowing me the opportunity to comment.

 

 

The finance for the first car was actually for £3294 ( thereabouts) as the day we bought the car they told us about this great car protector Gardx - They explained how to use it, how it will protect the car and keep it looking new . how often to use it and so on , then they asked if we would sign a form to confirm the product had been explained to us but we thought it was a gift- We were never told it would cost £299 but they put it in the finance and spread the costs over 4 years along with the 2995 for the car- The settlement figure was for the first car was 3419 (£2995 + £424 pound for the gardx and 10 days interest )

 

When i selected car number 2 i informed the finance manager that under no circumstances was he to charge me for gardx as i didnt want it and that i would happlily give it back and also told him he had no right to put the 299 in with my finance but he told me not to worry as not only will it not go on the new finance agreement but i could keep it as a complimentry gift - I only realised i did pay for it when the settlement figure came through ( only this time it seems it must have cost 2k lol)

 

I feel like an idiot as i even bought the finance manager and the sales guy a bottle of wine and a thank you card as they let me change the car

Edited February 17, 2012 by ver1

[sailor sam]

This confirms what I said in post #4. Rather than treating the situation as exchanging a fulty car for another, the dealer has made it into 2 seperatae sales. They have simply ignored the correct route which would of been you rejecting the first car under the SOGA as being not of satisfactory quality, and then refunding all your monies paid which would effectively put you back to square 1.

 

The dealer has simply manipulated the situation so they are not out of pocket but you are. Very unethical and unfair practice when they sold you a faulty car in the first place IMHO. From your original account, they seem to have encouraged you down this route also.

 

Trading Standards should really get their teeth into this for you.

[Slaac]

Is this an Evans Halshaw dealership? only this have some overtones that sound familier to my case.

[sailor sam]

Is this an Evans Halshaw dealership? only this have some overtones that sound familier to my case.

 

No Network Q (Vaxhall)

[ver1]

I agree - I am waiting for the bank to get back to us regarding the finance currently on this car to make sure my Mums credit history isn't going to be affected - If it was in my name i wouldnt hesitate to drive there with it now along with a letter , keys and paperwork - maybe let them fight me for their money so they know what it feels like.

 

I have contacted trading standards and pointed some things out , as in I was told part-exchange was the only option and that i was mislead to beileve that i had no other option etc Im going to contact some solicitors just to meet face to face and see exactly what i can do - I'm hoping i can find one who specialises in this sort of thing as i need to know if a faulty water pump along with the other stuff listed would be considered enough to reject the car.I think it should be but what would i know lol

 

Its very stressful and now everytime i get into the car i have its just a reminder of what i have lost and its getting me down - I think what i really need is a report from the service garage to get some solid evidence of the repair work needed to the car - I have a feeling that upon further inspection they may have discovered more faults - gut instinct

 

Well so far with the emails and that written they havent denied the car needed repairs so at least thats something

 

You have been a fountain of knowledge and i sincerely appreciate your input , its been so reassuring - I will without a doubt keep you update with any progress made

 

Thank you

[ver1]

Posted in wrong place

Edited February 17, 2012 by ver1

[ver1]

Is this an Evans Halshaw dealership? only this have some overtones that sound familier to my case.

 

No im sorry it isnt and i hope our corrospondence on this issue has helped you - I may have saved you a lot of typing lol ( I think i tried to reply to this in the wrong way - Hope you get help and that you get face to face legal advice as thats what i intend doing -

[ver1]

Is this an Evans Halshaw dealership? only this have some overtones that sound familier to my case.

 

I googled this company out of curiosty think this is a 2007 post but im sure if you searched you would find more follow the link http://www.ciao.co.uk/Evans_Halshaw__Review_5716127

 

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews205744.html

 

wow these guys are bad dealers

[ver1]

Hi Sam

 

I took the points you made and sent them to trading standards and they totally agree with you and told me its the same route they are taking so you advised me well . I couldn't do much over the weekend as the finance company and TS's were closed - We didn't hear any news back from the finance company after we emailed our letter of complaint so i asked Mum to get on the ball with them ASAP this morning . Mum contacted them today and the girl dealing with the complaint asked if Mum had received the forms she had posted regarding the issue - offical complaint forms ????

 

Mum asked where we stood with the finance if we handed the car back to the dealers today with a letter regarding the dispute and breach of contract regarding the finance amount however she was advised we couldnt hand the car back as this is illegal and to just pay the finance until the dispute had been investigated by them. Our first payment is due next week ???

 

I personally dont agree with the finance company and told Mum as soon as we make that first payment as far as im concerned we are agreeing to the £5995 for the car and once we make that first payment that's it we have no case. As far as im concerned the finance company are just following their complaints procedure as in ( yeah we understand your concerns but just pay us the money anyway) sure they will investigate it but the dealership will just tell them what they told us and we will still be no futher .

 

So ATM we have trading standards and the finance company both investigating this - I want to get a solicitor on the case asap but am i better waiting for the outcome of both the finance company and TS's and failing their efforts then get a solicitor - with all evidence of every effort i have made to resolve this before taking legal action.

 

I contacted TS's and they said the finance end of this needs to be addressed with the finance company - dead helpful ?? ( This girl at the finance company said this is wrong and wants Mum to get the forms back to her ASAP so she can take it further )

 

It's like ground hog day here lol

 

I have been reading some horror stories Sam and my heart beaks for some of these people who are in much worse sitautions than me - We are very lucky to have this group - what would we do without you

[sailor sam]

Kind words which I really appreciate, thank you.

 

I would be very tempted to get further advice before making the first payment either by pusing further at TS or consulting a specialist solicitor. It may also be useful to get some opinions on the 'legal' side of returning the car from our finance guru's who normally stay on the 'banks & credit' forum. I'll se if we can attract them here by asking the site team for some guidence.

 

We must focus on the fact however, that it is the dealer who has manipulated this situation. The finace co are simply acting on their information. So it may be useful to register an official complaint to them by completing their forms and sending them back to them. But please photo copy the forms AFTER you have completed them.

[ver1]

I will do that - I will def contact a solicitor tomorrow - Maybe i should just cancel the finance , not pay anyone anything and hang on to the car - that might speed them all up a bit lol ( joke) but very tempting

 

Thanks

[ver1]

Hi Sam - Have a look at this - very interesting reading - although doesnt really help me as my case is different - but might be another way to go

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/79/79-car-finance.htm

 

After reading the first case it does seem theres a procedure to follow before we can get the results

[citizenB]

So you have been sold a car which is faulty, returned it in order to obtain one that actually works, yet you are expected to pay £2,000 for the faulty vehicle by way of an apparently non refundable deposit on the rubbish vehicle ?

 

This doesnt seem right at all. Site team are aware.

[ver1]

Hi guys

 

I have been receiving great advice from Sam and your input is very much appreciated - Have you seen the threads ?

 

I just posted a link it seems it's best to pay the finance for the second car until the dispute is resolved

- Im not sure if this applies to my case but it seems from this its best to let the finance company investigate the complaint

and if im not satisfied with the outcome according to this site i can bring my case to them

 

- If im honest i have been reading some of the cases brought to you and i think some of these people are in much worse situations than i am

- god at least i have a second car that actually drives well

- The first car had problems

 

- faulty water pump needed replaced , steering wheel colum needed taken out and re-fitted as i couldnt see the indicators ,

engine had a soft squealing noise ,

car pulled to the left ,

it sounded like a disel but it was petrol

- I had to give it back as i knew it was trouble, ..

 

Their garage dianosed the problems , offered to fix them to be fair but i did'nt want the car ,

i just knew it was bad news so i knew i needed to act fast

- dealer agreed i could exchange and it all went wrong from there

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/79/79-car-finance.htm

Edited February 20, 2012 by ver1

[Slaac]

wow these guys are bad dealers

Yes they are - the situation you talked about sounded just like something they would do!