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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Quick Quid & Pounds Till Payday


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Hi, I have decided that I have had enough of paying off the interest every month on my payday loans so have cancelled my DD's to them. I have been reading various posts on this forum which has halped me alot, however I have sent QQ and PTPD an email advising them of my financial difficulties etc etc and that I will make a token payment of £10 to them this month until a payment plan is set up.I have had various emails from both of them but both are saying that to set up a payment plan then I need to contact them by phone or by Live Chat (QQ) as this is the only way a plan can be set up, they have advised that it cannot be set up by email.I haven't even defaulted on them yet as my pay date is on the 24th.Has anyone been able to sort this out by email as I don't want to speak with them over the phone and I also don't want to give them my new card details. I know from previous threads that I can pay QQ by paypal but does anyone know how I can pay PTPD or better still got their bank details so I can set up standing order/bank transfer.Thanks in advance

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Hello type in my forums on qq and poundstillpayday to help u ,,,qq will usually set up a plan after u default by email and ptpd will only gicve u 8 wks to pay up then send it to a dca and they will bombard u with text phone and email messages with threats so i would get shot of these first so look on my quackquack forums or type in ptpd or quick quid xx

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I have had various emails from both of them but both are saying that to set up a payment plan then I need to contact them by phone or by Live Chat (QQ) as this is the only way a plan can be set up, they have advised that it cannot be set up by email.I haven't even defaulted on them yet as my pay date is on the 24th.Has anyone been able to sort this out by email as I don't want to speak with them over the phone and I also don't want to give them my new card details.

 

Absolute garbage.

 

I have been in email discussions with Quickquid via email myself and they have offered me numerous arrangements and said i could pay by postal order:

 

Quickquid

P.O Box 47

Sheffield

S98 1DR

 

We accept the following forms of payment:

 

Direct Debit

Debit Card

Bankers Cheque/Postal Order

 

So they do make arrangements via email and there is ways to pay without handing over your details (took me a while to get them though)

 

If you do send postal orders i've heard many people saying only send crossed postal orders and send by signed delivery.

 

Crossed Postal Orders: http://www.postoffice.co.uk/finance/making-payments/postal-orders/faqs#42900267

 

Also make sure you include any details such as your Quickquid account number on the postal order.

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QQ now offering payment plans?? Wow...

 

Before I found cag and learnt the golden 'stay off the phone' rule. I looked forward to my daily phone call with a very uninterested single toned American lady. I told her I couldn't pay, she told me I couldn't not pay, I told her I couldn't pay, she told me I couldn't not pay. This used to go on for 5 minutes before I'd tell her 'ok, I'll see what I can do tomorrow' and she'd be happy with that and phone back tomorrow for our daily chat.

 

They passed me onto mucky hall and MMF before I could agree a payment plan that I could afford!! Strange, they never over extorted their charges and fees. My debt only ever increased from £400 to £469 in 18 months.

 

PTP... I think they prefer to deal with DMPs (not recommending a DMP btw, they are ok if you're desperate) when I first emailed them, they told me to send them details of my dmp. They accepted my own dmp within days. I never got one call from them.

 

Aswell as cancelling your dds... Did you also cancel your debit card? A lot of advice here is to completely change your bank account!!

 

Best to try and get your wages paid into a different account to protect it!

It never rains but it pours...

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Thought you might be interested in the letter i have sent QQ today (below) I'm having a nightmare with them I don't know how anyone can sort out stuff with them? The calls at my work have just been awful.....maybe i should have just ignored it rather than trying to deal with it!!

Dear sirs

I am now getting more than a little frustrated with Quick Quid.

On 3/2/12 i had a telephone conversation with a lady who called me from Quick Quid, she promised to email me with a payment plan.

On 6/2/12 I received an email from you saying my payment was overdue etc... but no payment plan so I emailed you to explain I had spoken to someone and was awaiting a payment plan

On 7/2/12 I received a payment offer from you spreading the balance over 3 months to which i replied on 8/2/12 saying i was still unable to afford these repayments you then replied the same day with an offer spreading the balance over 4 months.

I replied on 9/2/12 saying I was still unable to afford this and would you accept £100 for two months followed by payments of £150 per month.

I received a reply also on the 9/2/12 negating to say if you accepted my proposal and just stating that you would not accept standing orders and detailing your accepted payment methods.

I replied the same day stating that i may be prepared to pay via paypal if you could explain how I would do this and that failing this I would send a cheque each month also i pointed out that you had negated to say if you accepted my proposed payment plan .

I then received a reply on 10/2/12 offering a payment plan once again spreading the debt over 3 months (identical to the initial offer) which is clearly no help at all and out of context with the previous correspondence!

I replied again on 10/2/12 suggesting that you review the previous correspondence between myself and Quick Quid before replying to my emails.

And finally now today I receive a reply saying that you are awaiting confirmation of a payment plan and collections will continue????

Whilst all this has beeen occurring you have also been constantly calling my work and on one occasion even played a recorded message down the phone to a collegue asking for them to call you urgently! The message even failed to state who it was for!

 

All this has put my employment in jeopardy and been hugely embarrassing and resulted in my sending you a Formal letter of complaint on 9/2/12 and copying both Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman in on it.

Nedless to say I have not received any reply to this nor have i received a copy of your company complaint procedure as requested.

Quite frankly I am now at the end of my tether with Quick Quid!

I am not trying to avoid paying you nor am I hiding from the problem but it appears from the above that you have no wish to sort any arrangement out.

I have once again copied the Financial Ombudsman and the office of fair trading in on this correspondence.

I await your written response

 

QQ now offering payment plans?? Wow...

 

Before I found cag and learnt the golden 'stay off the phone' rule. I looked forward to my daily phone call with a very uninterested single toned American lady. I told her I couldn't pay, she told me I couldn't not pay, I told her I couldn't pay, she told me I couldn't not pay. This used to go on for 5 minutes before I'd tell her 'ok, I'll see what I can do tomorrow' and she'd be happy with that and phone back tomorrow for our daily chat.

 

They passed me onto mucky hall and MMF before I could agree a payment plan that I could afford!! Strange, they never over extorted their charges and fees. My debt only ever increased from £400 to £469 in 18 months.

 

PTP... I think they prefer to deal with DMPs (not recommending a DMP btw, they are ok if you're desperate) when I first emailed them, they told me to send them details of my dmp. They accepted my own dmp within days. I never got one call from them.

 

Aswell as cancelling your dds... Did you also cancel your debit card? A lot of advice here is to completely change your bank account!!

 

Best to try and get your wages paid into a different account to protect it!

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Also forgot to mention, I would love to stay off the phone but despite me requesting that they only contact me via email they continue to call my work! It's really not funny! I have now sent the official complaint letter and am praying that the calls to my work cease! As you can see above I have been trying to sort a payment plan out with them but it's verging on impossible.... they seem to be total cretins!

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Send them an email stating the following

 

"Please remove all telephone numbers from your system for me. I want to keep everything in email so I can use it as evidence should this case come to court.

 

I would also remind you of the Office of Fair Trading's Guidelines on Debt Collecting which state that communication can be in a peferred method, I choose email for this for its immediacy and paper trail, and I would mention that all calls to my work numher are automatically recorded. Any further phone calls will result in an immediate complaint to the OFT.

 

That should make them stop. You need to spell it out to some of these 'offshore based' companies. QQ used to be in Canada but Canada took the lead and booted out all the Payday loan lenders, so they decamped to certain USA states which allow them to operate (again not all USA states allow these predatory sub prime companies to operate).

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Thanks Sillygirl I'll try this I'm also thinking of filing an official complaint letter with the financial ombudsman about this I understand that the form is very long and the procedure can take a while but I have been absolutely disgusted with QQ!

I'm quite savvy and up to speed with my rights etc.... I really hate to think how this company are so intimidating that they've probably scared less savvy people half to death!

The way they speak to you on the phone is frequently nothing short of appauling too and then their tag line at the end of every fraught and frequently rude conversation "thankyou for choosing quick quid" makes me want to kill Grrr !!

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In the bad days when I dealt with them one particular Canadian person rang and I put the phone on speaker and he ranted on for a good five minutes about 'people like me taking money and not paying and people like him have to do the job they do to ensure the law is kept to...' he got a good mouthful in broad Scots from my flatmate which shut him up.

 

They use the phone because they believe it is an 'essential tool' in their fight against 'delinquent debtors'.

 

BTW - great user name!

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Quick update - I have now had an email from them saying my work tel number has been removed from the system (result) although they will still contact me on my mobile as I signed an agreement agreeing to all forms of electronic communication when i took out the loan!

They have also offered me a "new payment plan" which is basically the whole lot owed in one payment at the end of this month??????????

 

I really don't get these people if you see the letter to them i posted earlier they know this isn't going to happen, so it's as if they have no interest in resolution?

 

I'm now at the stage where I really cant be bothered to even email them anymore it seems like a pointless waste of time as they totally ignore what you can afford!

 

Not sure what my next move should be or even if there should be one???

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Your next move is to complain to the OFT and Trading Standards as previously advised, keep complaining and complaining about each breach of the OFT guidelines on debt collecting, you need to spell it out to the OFT which guidelines have been broken.

 

If you don't do this you are wasting your time posting on this site.

 

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk for the OFT

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk for Trading Standards

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Sorry to hear you're still struggling with these numb skulls!

 

Just a thought.... Might be worth sending them what you can afford monthly as a token payment. 'If' they ever do go down the court route, it's added defence for you that you've been making payments!

 

Hopefully they'll hurry up and pass the debt to Mckenzie hall. Although this company aren't favourites on this site, I had more joy in getting them to remove ALL my numbers from their system and be dealt with in writing only. They're also a lot more accommodating to repayment plans.

 

QQ were absolutely awful with me also. No compromise at all.

 

Hope you get sorted soon x

It never rains but it pours...

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Thanks Bombay I was thinking about doing thhe token payment thing myself actually! They really are awful to deal with aren't they! I can't quite work out what their agenda is? You would think they'd want to get something sorted as soon as possible .....but no! The debt is less than 800 so my offer to them would have meant it was paid in less than 6 months I could almost understand if I'd offered them a tenner a month or something! Oh well their loss cos I really am not worrying about it any more!

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I think a lot of these companies mourn the loss of our custom lol.

 

I had to endure months of harassment from QQ before they passed me onto MH. Wish I found cag before and I'd have been better equipped to deal with it all.

 

I think QQ kept me for 90 days before passing me onto MH then MMF. They were both a lot more willing to set up plans, although MMF - the second DCA, were more willing to accept reasonable amounts.

 

You sound like you're being over generous with your offer to QQ - more than they deserve after treating you like this lol. Yeah, ridiculous how they won't entertain those offers!

 

Just be careful that your offer doesn't meet or exceed the cost of 'rolling over'! I wouldn't put it past them to consider your payment as an extension/deferral payment. Would hate to think that you are paying them £xxx monthly and your loan amount still remains the same.

 

Good luck and please keep us posted :)

It never rains but it pours...

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Thanks for the advice Bombay and Quack Quack. I have decided Im gonna play them at their own game as the repayments on the payment plan they have offered are getting higher and higher with each email my offers to them are now going to get lower and lower! lol :wink:

Lets see how they like that!!!

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Guest QuickQuidCustomerService

Hey Venice139,

QuickQuid has numerous options available to assist customers in the repayment process that we aren't able to properly advise on through email, which is why we don't set up plans that way. It's extremely helpful to be able to have a conversation about your options, what may be right for you in your particular situation, and how we can move forward so that we can help you avoid default as well. I hope this information helped!

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IIt is not advisable to just speak to you on the phone, if an email is sent there is proof available should your company backtrack on the deal - this is why email is the preferred method used in negotiations.

 

Telephone calls are not always able to be clearly understood by some and when you are distressed and unsure of your rights it is easy to get things wrong.

 

Sorry QQ, but here in the UK we prefer the written word when negotiating deals.

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