Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[**Margaret**]

SPOT THE DIFFERENCE:

 

At risk of boring everyone beyond tears, here's second half of my letter from Work n Pensions;

 

IN FULL!!!

'The availability of audio recording was announced at a time when only small numbers were expected (got that wrong didn't they) and since that time the number of requests has increased significantly. (Can't think why) This has put pressure on the ability to provide sufficient capacity to meet all requests. The dual CD machines required for audio recording are a specialist item - there is only one manufacturer and machines are built on demand. As a consequence there is a lead in time of four to 10 weeks. Additional machines have been ordered. (Didn't say how many but 'machines' is plural. Maybe two?) However a large scale purchase of machines in the absence of an evaluation of the process is not effective use of public money. Although there have been increases in requests these still represent only a small percentage of overall WCAs - 242 (?) since March this year.

In the meantime, whilst Atos will do all they can to accommodate requests for audio recording there may be times when the service cannot be offered, for example where it has not been possible to get access to recording equipment on the date/time of the WCA. In these circumstances clients (their word, not mine) will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated.

 

Compared to last paragraph of Mr Grayling's written parliamentary answer,

dated 17 July 12;

 

In these circumstances clients will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated and offered a later date. (For what? 'Tis far from clear unless I'm missing something. Or is it the usual fudge?)

 

 

DWATO has two faces?

Letter to me from Work n Pensions dated 13 July 12.

Parliamentary written answer dated 17 July 12.

Shall be joining :worried33's: Member of Parliament and sending copies of both to Caxton House for comment and further clarification. This fiasco's getting unfairer by the second.

 

Mad Margaret

[**Margaret**]

Willowone:

 

Having trouble keeping pace with the posts this afternoon. You were next on my list.

 

Congrats for today. We're both alright, for now, but I'm feeling for :worried33: and the others who aren't. S/he tried the same strategy as me but it didn't work.

 

Unfortunately my Member of Parliament's blue. She did invite me to discuss the situation with her but overlooked the fact that I cannot reliably get to her office!

 

The electronic mail was a kind thought, thank you, but I wouldn't have known how to reply. My computer literacy, like dealing with DWATO, is a work in progress.

 

Onward and upward, sincerely, Margaret.

Edited July 19, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

worried33:

 

At a bit of a loss here cos no idea why written request worked for me but not for you. 'Tis a very unfair lottery. Whatever else happens tomorrow try to get someone to take notes if you're forced into an unrecorded assessment. Easier said than done but 'twill be worth it if you need them at tribunal.

 

Be thinking of you, sincerely, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Suspects:

 

Us of course. We're all scrounging benefit cheats.

 

We should get automatic recording while being interviewed under caution.

 

Still Margaret

[**Margaret**]

worried33:

 

 

For what it's worth I'm with everything that Willow's said on this.

 

A friend's been waiting thirteen months to appeal a fit for work incap decision.

Failure to attend, or a walkout, will be possibly weeks, more likely months, without any benefit while Grayling keeps out of the good cause debate.

 

Should you take up Willow's suggestion about a final call to Atos try 01159758328.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Bedtime:

 

Before I go back to my red circles.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

worried33:

 

Didn't mean to ignore you on Thursday. The friend who helps me with CAG has only just found the electronic mail you sent. Incredible as it may seem to others I'm struggling with this computer literacy game, that DWATO have driven me to. Thanks for the thanks.

 

My appointment was cancelled, for now, by Atos, but I've still no idea why they treated almost identical requests so differently. If I've remembered correctly, earlier this year was down to err, err... shall we call it official error?

 

Methinks this bit of the shambles is outwith local benefit delivery centres, so 'tis time to pester Caxton House again.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited July 21, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

Problem areas for recording:

 

With only eleven machines, and some of them broken? Everywhere!!!!!

 

'Tis apparent from contributors to CAG, and from other sites, that Nottingham is disproportionately affected.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

worried33:

 

Thanks, and in so far as any encounter with Atos goes well;

 

Good luck for tomorrow. Be thinking of you.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

worried33:

 

More than two hours????? You must be so soo sooo tired. After all the angst of the last few months as well.

 

Thankyou so much for your determination to stand up to DWATO. Along with Jayne Linney you're an encouragement to the rest of us. Praps, praps we're ever so slightly nearer an end to this bit of the err, err.... official persecution?

 

Enjoy the weather, rest or for now, Margaret.

Laters for the other cos I need some help.

[**Margaret**]

Willowone:

 

 

Hi. Just wanted to echo nolegion's comments about you and worried33 standing up for yourselves and telling respective members of parliament what's what. Mine's a harder nut; thinks DWATO's doing a great job.

 

 

As we spent all of yesterday chasing my medical records, my husband watched DWATO running me into the ground as well.

 

Look after yourself, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Documentation:

 

Atos read supporting evidence?? From proper doctors???

 

Hope it's a new trend. I got hold of my medical records yesterday.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

nolegion:

 

Lots of thanks for all the pointers about medical records.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Hi Willow:

 

Don't let 'em get you down. It's par for the course and they aint going down quietly but neither are we. 'Tis clear that DWATO are only window-dressing the first Harrington review. If they'd ever been serious about audio recording it'd be mentioned on the ESA50 and in 'About your assessment', they've had more than long enough (at least eight months) to sort both. Is pink DWATO's favourite colour for work capability paperwork?

 

More seriously, I'm cautiously optimistic that, in the confusion they've caused, this particular bit of the chaos has got away from them. At least as far as the yo yo video from the Ministry of Justice anyway.

 

Look after yourself, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

For your amusement:

 

Well it's or .

 

Got an unexpected letter from DWATO today. Not from Caxton House and nothing to do with my current situation, but it got me thinking.

 

'it is a requirement of claiming employment and support allowance that you must attend a medical examination'

 

DWATO tell us to attend a medical examination.

The 2008 regulations clearly legislate for a medical examination.

The escaped Ministry of Justice yo yo mentioned a medical examination.

 

So why do Atos, and Mr Grayling, insist it's an assessment????

Which can or can't be recorded by Atos, dependent on the whim of the day.

 

:confused: Are't we all, us and them, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Hi nolegion:

 

Hoping no news is good news but waiting, like Willowone, for the Atos axe.

Specially as I know of three recorded interrogations in my area during the last ten days or so. Can't find out whether the machine is new, borrowed from another area or cadged from Work n Pensions.

 

Sincerely Margaret

[**Margaret**]

Nothing to do with the recording per chance?

 

Everything to do with the recording!!!

 

Cynical Margaret.

 

Which is why those who can (no criticism of them as can't) should insist on an audio record.

[**Margaret**]

DWATO porkies:

 

where they've gone but hope they stay away. Caxton House aren't saying much. Currently, their silence on the issue is deafening, to Members of Parliament and us. Come September they'll probably claim (again) that they've improved the whole shoddy not fit for purpose system.

 

Another 'not the biggest point in the world', most Atos envelopes are white. Do they think, that we think it makes em look friendly? It's not working. Mere sight of one starts a in our house.

 

Margaret.

Edited August 9, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

Crazy Diamond:

 

Tut, tut, tut, you're so unfair to the media. They're probably waiting for some guidance from Caxton House, like the rest of us.

 

Concerning this particular conundrum; I've had a freedom of info request into Work n Pensions since 20 July. Sent a copy of Mr Grayling's parliamentary written answer, dated 17 July, with a copy of the Atos statement and asked for clarification.

Thus far, their silence on the issue is deafening.

 

Atos are happy for work capability assessments to be recorded??

You could've fooled me.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

worried33:

 

Well done you for getting an answer out DWATO. :high5:

My comments on the answer?

Little wonder Grayling's sidekicks aren't replying to my freedom of info request.

 

Are there any limits to DWATO's apparent duplicity? Probably not.

 

Oh well, back to CIB/3117/2008. With the obvious problem of no pennies while appealing a failure to attend. ConDems don't do compassion.

 

Margaret. Back to my red circles.

[**Margaret**]

A sort of clarification:

 

'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive'

(by Walter Scott).

 

From Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Clarification, or lack thereof:

 

The poetry was intended to be illustrative of DWATO's contradictory statements on the issue of audio recorded messicals. Personally, I don't think we'll get a definitive answer cos DWATO don't want to give us one.

 

CIB/3117/2008: The appellant's appeal against failure to submit to a non-recorded medical examination (yes, a medical examination, not a messical) was upheld. Many of us have good reasons for wanting our interviews recorded. Not least of which, is the sheer number of the Atossers' creative transcriptions that get overturned at tribunal.

 

Onward and upward. Compact discs are a lot cheaper than tribunals.:flame:Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

Hi Worried33:

 

CIB/3117/2008: Can we agree to disagree?

Clearly we have a difference of interpretation concerning the reasons for the decision.

 

'Tis also clear that Mr Duncan Smith's ignoring the judge's directions that accompanied the decision;

 

'The Secretary of State shall ask Medical Services to arrange for the appellant to be provided with details, in writing, of the conditions under which an interview or examination may be tape-recorded.'

 

Anyone received said details in writing, pre or post 5 July 12, following a knockback from Atos, for an assessment to be recorded by Atos??????

 

:?:

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited August 18, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

CIB/3117/2008:

 

Don't remember saying that I was right or that :Worried 33: was wrong. None of us will know until such time as a similar case comes before a future tribunal.

 

Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

CIB/3117/2000:

 

Again! Beginning to wish that I'd never mentioned it.

 

So far as I know, the legal right to an audio recorded Atos assessment is still in never, never land, and likely to remain there, #385 of this thread.

 

:estellyn:

 

My interpretation of the case suggests to me that some present claimants, who've previously been shafted by Atos, may be able to use it as precedent to argue good cause (very subjective) for refusal to submit to an unrecorded assessment. Especially in the wake of a long line of parliamentary written answers and freedom of info requests on the issue. Not to mention the number of overturned, because of inaccurate transcription by Atos assessors, Jobcentreplus decisions. Whether anyone tries is personal choice.

 

'...... recording is now being offered at Atos' expense ......' :?:.

Many of the previous pages in this thread are about Atos not offering an audio recorded assessment to a claimant, then failing to advise said claimant of the conditions for audio recording.

 

:worried 33:

 

We shall continue to agree to disagree? Until such time as someone has the stickability to take the issue to a future tribunal.

 

During the recent Panorama, Mr Grayling suggested that tribunals feel sorry for appellants. He is wrong. No debate needed .

 

Margaret.

Edited August 21, 2012 by **Margaret**