RBS taking me to court - *Struck Out* ** New claim issued by RBS **

[citizenB]

What are the issue dates on these claim forms, please dpack ?

[dpac123]

14th August for Ascent Legal and 30th August for Shoosmiths.

[AndyOrch]

dpac can you scan (preferable) in the N1s (less any identifiables) or type both Particulars verbatim with rounded amounts?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dpac123]

[ATTACH][ATTACH]46254[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]Hi Andy, edited N1 forms are attached.

Edited September 7, 2013 by citizenB

[dpac123]

I also phoned the court for the 4th time and nobody really seems to know the current position. It looks like my claim was initially discontinued and added into my wife's claim, so both were treated by the court as one. This was later struck out when the claimant failed to deliver info the DJ requested. I have also provided a list of letters received since May to give an idea of the paper trail:

 

7th May - letter from Nat West giving 7 days to make payment (one to me and one to my wife)

3rd June - another reminder, one letter each

3rd July - letter of discontinuance, me only

29th July - letter before court proceedings (Mrs only)

7th July - letter from Shoosmiths, 14 days notice of court proceedings (Mrs only)

8th August - letter from Nat West saying the matter is being referred to Irwin Mitchell in 14 days to collect (Mrs only)

14th August - claim issued by Nat West/Ascent Legal (Mrs only)

15th August - application for money judgement from Ascent Legal (Mrs only)

19th August - another application for money judgement from Ascent Legal (Mrs only)

19th August - letter from Shoosmiths giving 7 days notice of court proceedings (Mrs only)

2nd September - claim issued by Nat West/Shoosmiths (Mrs only).

 

This seems really disorganised and I'm sure we have a strong case. Can we counter-claim for the hours I have wasted trying to defend this and the other cases?

[AndyOrch]

[ATTACH][ATTACH]46254[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]Hi Andy, edited N1 forms are attached.

 

You need to convert your uploads to PDF dpac...jpg is far too small to decipher.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[citizenB]

dpack, if you follow the instructions below we will be able to see your images properly.

 

 

 

Dx100 – Instructions on uploading pdfs

Scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all personal info including barcodes etc. using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

Go to one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new message box here

hit go advanced below the message box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB: you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

Then hit reply button

 

 

[lutin]

Nitro Reader works very well for me to convert to pdf cheers lutin

[dpac123]

Try again - [ATTACH][ATTACH]46313[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[AndyOrch]

Ok thanks dpac

 

So were are we at with this nonsense...I assume you have AoS summons 14th Aug and intended to defend ? This would be my choice of opponent so lets assume this is the one to progress.

 

Re Shoos summons dated 02 Sept you can either ring them up and advise them that the matter is already subject to litigation by Ascent and request they withdraw or discontinue.Subject to their response you could also make application to strike out for obvious reasons and request costs.

 

Regards

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Also If the same company, or a third-party collection firm, threatens to sue you for a debt that has already been paid, or is pending in court, you may seek damages. You can sue any company that makes false claims with a wilful intent to intimidate you into repaying a bad debt. The maximum in damages you can collect is £5,000 now plus costs.

[citizenB]

Would it be worth writing to both sets of solicitors along the lines of...

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

 

Court Reference

Solicitor Reference

 

The claim above issued on DATE is already being litigated by OTHER SOLICITOR on Court reference, issued DATE.

 

I believe this to be a an abuse of the court process!

 

I will be bringing this to the attention of the court and seeking costs for my time in this matter.

 

Etc, etc.

 

then reverse the court references/dates and send similar letter to the other solicitor !

[dpac123]

Hi Andy, I have sent back the AOS for Ascent Legal and asked for 28 days, which expires at the end of this week. I also spoke to Shoosmiths who are going to revert to RBS to see what is going on and call me back. I have also found some more paperwork - several letters intending to file a default and actual default notices, all dated 25th March - surely they can't reissue default notices retrospectively on accounts that are dead!!?

[AndyOrch]

Ok you need to get the Shoos claim pulled as a priority ...we can draft a suitable defence for Ascent. Dont worry about the DN,s for now we can deal with them as and when.

[dpac123]

I received a letter from the court today. There were the following comments from the judge: "Case against Mr P discontinued", "Case against Mrs P struck out", "I do not understand the problem - are there fresh proceedings against Mrs P" - even the judge is querying fresh proceedings. Any thoughts on how to respond to claim and whether we can/should claim for costs?"

[AndyOrch]

"Case against Mr P discontinued", "Case against Mrs P struck out"

 

So they can re attempt the one discontinued against you with you....... Mrs dpacs was struck out...but was that ajudged..there has to be a judgment to argue Res Judicata.

 

Have you attained a copy of that strike out...was it by way of a General Order/Judgment?

[dpac123]

I asked about a strike out notice but the court don't issue them anymore. I have a letter on court headed paper with comments from the judge stating that Mrs P's case was struck out - surely this counts as a strike out notice and negates the ability of RBS to issue a claim against her again?

[AndyOrch]

We can work around that dpac..the hard copy Notice would have been more effective but cest la vie.

 

If you could gather all information in the meantime...Claimant xxxxx claim number xxxx Court xxxxx Date xxxxx District Judge Mr xxxxxx

 

Copy of that P.o.C and a copy of the defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[DonkeyB]

We can work around that dpac..the hard copy Notice would have been more effective but cest la vie.

 

If you could gather all information in the meantime...Claimant xxxxx claim number xxxx Court xxxxx Date xxxxx District Judge Mr xxxxxx

 

Copy of that P.o.C and a copy of the defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Perhaps the judge’s earlier order that the claim will be struck without further notice if the claimant fails to comply is enough here? Logically, that’s why there’s no further notice, but as we know, claims are not always struck.

[AndyOrch]

Possibly DB

[dpac123]

I just spoke to Ascent Legal and Shoosmiths. Ascent Legal told me that all action has been halted and that they would send a letter and email to confirm. I phoned Northampton County Court and they confirmed that the claim is still active on their system, so until Ascent Legal confirm in writing/email, I assume we still need to defend this. Shoosmiths apologies for not phoning back in 24 hours as promised 72 hours ago and said that they would go back to NatWest to confirm the situation. In the meantime they are going to send an email to confirm that the claim is on hold until they hear back from NW.

 

So in light of this, should I still defend the claims (Ascent Legal being due on Monday 15th), and with all this running around in circles and several breaches by NW, can we and how should we counter-claim?

[citizenB]

IMHO, I would not take their word - until such times as you receive written confirmation that they have withdrawn or put things on hold then you need to continue to believe this is a live claim(s).

 

I am sure andyorch will pop in as soon as he sees you have posted.

[DonkeyB]

Agree with CB. ‘All action halted’ means nothing – proceed as normal until they discontinue, and put it in writing. Stick to all deadlines. Remember that if you get your defence in anyway, they will be liable for costs.

[dpac123]

The Ascent Legal claim needs to be back by Monday (end of 33 days), so I had to draft the following response, even though both Ascent and Shoosmiths say the claim has been cancelled:

 

Ascent Legal have confirmed by telephone that this claim has been cancelled but I have not received anything in writing to confirm this. In the meantime, I would like to defend this claim on the following grounds:

 

1. This relates to claims xxx and yyy which were heard as a joint claim by zzz County Court in 2012. The original case was struck out due to the claimant not responding to the district judge's request for further information.

 

2. This claim is against myself only,whereas the matter in question relates to my husband, Dpac, as well. My husband has not received a claim form, so my concern is that according to

s141(5) CCA 1974(http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/141) (Except as may be provided by rules of court, all the parties to a regulated agreement, and any surety, shall be made parties to any proceedings relating to the agreement), pursuing myself only is a breach.

 

3. I have received a similar claim from Shoosmiths (xxx) relating to the same matter. Ascent Legal have also confirmed verbally (but not in writing) that this claim has been put on hold until further notice, but this means that I am being pursued by two solicitors for the same (joint) debt, of which I am one of two parties.

 

4. I have attached a copy of a witness statement dated 14/06/2012, which details the issues the district judge asked the claimant to respond to. A response was never received, so these issues are still outstanding and relate to this current claim as much as they did to claims xxx and yyy.

 

For the reasons stated above, I would ask for this claim to be struck out. (Attachments: witness statement from June 2012, supplementary info from original claim

 

I realise that you guys could probably have come up with a much better defence, but I had to submit something. Let's hope both claims have indeed been cancelled, or at least kicked into touch.

 

I didn't counter-claim because at this point I don't know what we can claim for. Could anybody advice on what can be claimed for and at what rates? NatWest took us into court 3 times last year, so the countless hours of reading forums and preparing defences, not to mention postage and all-round general stress. Any advice on how to counter-claim, albeit as a separate claim, would be extremely helpful. Thanks, D

Edited September 13, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[AndyOrch]

Yes thats fine dpac

 

The main thing is to submit and stop default...irrespective of whether they have withdrawn or not.It will afford a little breathing space.

 

We can run through your options for wasted costs once this has been clarified.

 

Regards

 

Andy