myloan - Enhance Financial Services - Unauthorised debit of £69.99 - natwest refuse chargeback!!

[BrownEggs]

I hope I've put this thread in the correct forum.

 

After checking my bank account the other day, as I do, I saw that I had been debited for the amount of £69.99 by god knows who.

 

A bit of background, I've taken out a few too many Payday loans recently (that's another story) and, of course, somewhere along the line, have had to put my details into a few websites. I confess I had been reckless, but I know for sure that I had not knowingly signed up on any site and given permission for the said amount to be taken out. Let's look at this logically. I needed money, I certainly wouldn't have paid nearly £70 for the pleasure of doing so. Especially when most payday loans are in the region of £100 anyway.

 

Anyhoo, I contacted VISA card services as the name of the company that had taken the payment was not yet showing on my statement. They told me that it belonged to a company called "Enhance Financial Services". They also stated that they dealt with this particular issue of payments being taken by Enhance Financial Services on many occasions each week. "Give them a call on #" I was told. "They are generally good at giving refunds".

I decided to do a little bit of research before I called them. I checked my email account and found two emails from "myloan" in my junk folder, dated 21st January 2012, the first thanking me for joining them and the second informing me that my "processing payment" had now been taken. What was odd though, was the login details they claimed I had signed up with. My login ID was my email address; fair enough. However, my Password with Myloan was my Postcode! I generally use a few passwords online, and my postcode certainly wouldn't be one of them.

I had a snoop about on the net; google, companies house etc. and found that "Myloans", "Enhance Financial Services" and "Claims Angel" where all run from the same address, and that the Director was a certain "Michael Christian Ransom" (I kid you not!!). I called the number that VISA had given me and got through to Enhance Financial Services. I stated that their company had recently taken a debit from my bank. Instantly, before I had a chance to draw breath, the bloke on the other end said "well you would have agreed to the terms and conditions on our website". I told him I'd never heard of any of the companies that are based where he is and had not signed up with any of them. I'd checked the myloan site out before I had called him and it says in big letters how they charge £69.99 and I know for sure that 1. I had never been on that site and 2. even if I had I wouldn't have proceeded with any application, not for that price anyway. I then asked him his name as he hadn't had the decency to give it to me at the beginning of the call. I then asked him which site it was I had apparently signed up with and that I wanted them to email me proof of this. He became quite shirty and said "I can't tell you any of that. I will pass this on to our Fraud department who will email you in two to three days" And that was that. No real conversation, no taking of information, just that "I had accepted the terms and conditions".

 

I checked in with my good friend, G**gle, again. I have found pages and pages of people complaining of exactly the same thing; of this company getting peoples details from god knows where and nicking money from their accounts.

 

The more I thought about it, the more I began to think that my details have been given to them by some shifty payday loan site and they have just used my details to take this money. Please don't chastise me about how I should have been careful what sites I went on and what details I disclosed, I know that know. I just got carried away over the space of a few days and wasn't thinking clearly.

 

They haven't yet replied, I think they are just ignoring me. I'm not willing to call them by phone again as it's a waste of time and more importantly, you can never easily prove what has been said on the phone. So I emailed them the following (for the attention of Mr. Ransom, of course!!!!):

 

"Mr Ransom.

 

Further to my conversation with your colleague the other day regarding the unauthorised charge that has been debited from my bank account by "MYLOAN, MACCLESFIELD", again, I will reiterate that I have never visited the said website "myloan".

 

Having checked the Internet for more information, it would appear that your company is well known taking money from people who have had no contact with "myloan" in the first place. When I asked your colleague why I had been charged this amount, the reply was "you would have agreed to the terms and conditions when you signed up". An odd response to my initial question, but no doubt a response that you tell all of your staff to say to anybody questioning the said charge.

 

Again I ask you quite simply, where exactly did I "sign up" in agreement to allow you to take £69.99 from my account? You refused to answer any of my questions on the phone the other day, merely stating that the matter would be passed on to your fraud department. That's a tremendous step to take when all you were asked were the details of the agreement that I apparently made.

 

As I made you aware, I have spoken to VISA card services regarding this charge, they informed me that they are well aware of your company and deal with this issue time and time again. A Google search of your company hasn't exactly given me much information regarding your activities, merely reports and complaints about you having done this to many other people.

 

I am again demanding the return of this fee you have fraudulently taken from me. If you do not comply with this lawful request then I will take further action.

 

I feel that, from our conversation the other day and the lack of answers you gave me, you are merely stalling for time. Please be aware that I will not be letting this issue slide, certainly not for £69.99. A number of fraudulent activities were carried out using my card details this week (funnily enough, starting after you emailed me informing me that I had joined up with you - this email went to my junk folder) and one of those transactions was yours. Fortunately for me, you have been the most traceable of the lot. I expect to have my money refunded by the end of this week.

 

All further correspondence from yourselves is to be in writing only, preferable email for sake of speed. This is to ensure clarity and to prevent any 'misunderstandings', which can not be ensured through solely verbal communication"

 

The above email was sent to all three companies based at the same business address, with the same director, so not just sharing a boiler room between them.

 

Now, I have a suspicion that these people will not get back to me at all. VISA said to get back to them if this was the case. I'm sure they'll carry out a chargeback if I state my case to them.

 

So, that's it. This is one hell of a long post, I hope you didn't get bored halfway though.

 

I'll keep you updated on the outcome. Lets see if Mr. Ransom continues to hold me to ransom!!".

[dx100uk]

we have had a number of these from various diff sources

 

 

you need to DEMAND a chargeback

 

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

 

if its barclaycard they arewell aware of the process

and have refund immediately on many ocassions

 

DON'T take NO for an answer

 

keep demanding to speak to a supervisor

many phone jockeys do not understand the chargeback scheme.

 

if you have to go to the MD.

 

under the chargeback scheme, they must refund immediately THEN do their investigation.

 

dx

[BrownEggs]

I've had to cancel my card - somebody took out a Club Penguin subscription not long after this company mugged me off. This won't affect my ability to receive a chargeback, will it?

[dx100uk]

hope not"

 

dx

[BrownEggs]

Just an update...

 

I called Natwest back today, and asked for a chargeback.

They told me that VISA card services were "closed for the weekend" (what a joke!).

Natwest then said that, because I had not authorised the charge in the first place, that I had had no dealings with myloan uk, that it could be dealt with in-house.

So they transferred me to the Fraud Department.

 

And I waited for 10 minutes...

. and spoke to one of their 'consultants'

(I had to chuckle, I suppose when it comes to Fraud, you want to be speaking with a consultant, not a Customer Service Agent, it makes all the difference mentally!!!).

 

I then explained, again, from start to finish, what had happened and was then told that I had to call back on Monday and speak to.... you've guessed it.... VISA.

 

So I certainly won't be getting the money back this weekend.

I have a horrible suspicion that this won't be a clear cut issue either.

I can't begin to understand how myloan/enhancefinancialservices/quintesssentialgroup have been getting away with conning hundred upon hundreds of people, and still be in business.

 

But as they say, money talks. Louder than disgruntled consumers it would appear.

[BrownEggs]

Hey.

 

Another update regarding the money that was magic away from my account.

Now, I said in a prior post that I thought this would not be a clear cut case.

One of the reasons I thought this is because I failed to understand how this group of companies had been getting away with this taking of unauthorised monies from others for so long.

 

Anyway, here's what happened this morning.

 

So, I got up nice and early to call VISA Card Services,

as I had been advised to do on three occasions by Natwest over the past five days.

 

I spoke to a lady who listened as I proceeded to tell her the WHOLE story (again).

 

She listened intently; "Well," she said. "I can see that you have received a few loans recently.

If you read the terms and conditions of these sites,

it says that you have given them permission to share your information, and to take a brokers fee".

 

'WOW!' I thought.

That's a pretty thorough response seeing she knows nothing as to who I have approached,

and totally disregarding the fact that I have just told her that I had given nobody and no website permission to take such a fee.

And that somebody has received a loan of late does not automatically mean that they have signed up with somebody to pay a fee of any sort.

 

But she went ahead and made this assumption in any case.

 

I told her that one of the reasons that this company are getting away with this,

and they seem to have carried out this fast one hundreds of times,

is that they prey on the fact that many people who apply for PayDay loans will have approached more than one company,

and will use this as a starting point to say that,

somewhere along the line, permission was given to take the said fee.

 

I repeated that I had never heard of the company and had not given them permission to take this money out.

"Well you must have". she said.

 

I began to get quiet frustrated at this point, I said that it was as though she was insinuating that,

because I had taken out a couple of loans,

then I could not be trusted in my word that I had been defrauded by one of these companies.

"I DEMAND A CHARGEBACK!!" I ranted.

"Hold the line" said Miss VISA, "I need to speak to somebody".

So she kept me on hold for a good five minutes. Rubbish music played into my ears.. I seethed....

 

"Hi Mr. xxxx, I've been speaking to 'Authorisations' from myloan UK,

they are on the other line and they need to speak to you, I'll transfer you now. Bye". And then she hung up!!.

 

So here I was, on the phone again to the same company who had told me, last week, that they would reply to me in a couple of days. And as of today, had not.

And funnily enough it was the same bloke I'd spoken to last week as well.

 

"How can I help?" he asked. "Why, haven't you been told by VISA already? I want my money back!".

“Nope, no can do, I told you last week you'd accepted the terms and conditions, it's going through our fraud department, they’ll get back to you blah blah etc. etc.

"So, what site did I sign up on then?" - same response,

"we'll get back to you".

 

"OK then, what day did I sign up?"

- "we'll get back to you".

"Why do you keep giving me the same answer?"

- "we'll get back to you".

Back and forth, back and forth.

And oddly enough, the more questions I asked him, the more he began to stutter, because I kept tripping him up with a few things, which I won't discuss here,

I know they have their snoops online!!.

 

"Is there anything else I can help you with" he had the cheek to ask me.

I told them I expected to hear from them by the end of the day and hung up.

 

So now, understandably, I'm fuming!!

I rang VISA back again and demanded to speak to a supervisor....

I waited and waited, and finally got through to another lady.

 

Firstly, I had a moan about the lady having a chin wag with my loans when I last called,

and not having the decency to let me know what had been said in their cosy little conversation,

let alone that she was speaking with them in the first place.

And guess what? VISA had no record of the call. GRRRRR!!

 

I told them I want my money back.

"No I'm sorry Mr. xxxx, you have had a few loans lately so you MUST have given them permission to take this fee out.

We will not be helping you or refunding your money.".

I proceeded to tell her that the fact I had taken loans does not

1) automatically mean I have given any other company permission to steal my money, that was the assumption she was making and

2) the mere fact I have financial problems does not make me a less trustworthy person than the next customer.

 

I asked her "If I was a customer, who had not taken out a loan recently, had loads of money and a good job,

but rang you regarding the same company having taken this money out without explicit permission to, would you refund it then?"

"Yes, but you have taken out a loan recently with a number of companies so you must have given your permission for this charge to be taken from your account".

I felt like smashing the phone up.

 

And so I have been mugged off, not only by myloans UK, but also VISA and Natwest.

I have trawled the internet and found hundred of complaints about this firm and nothing has been done.

 

I'm sorry for warbling on, I'm so angry at the moment,. I know I'll never get my money without a fight, and I can't afford a fight.

 

Mr Paul Christian Ransom, your company is a sham. VISA, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Natwest, well, what can I say.

 

 

Watch this space.

Edited January 30, 2012 by BrownEggs

[dx100uk]

no we want to here these stories

 

the more these companies and VISA are shamed in not helping their customers

the quicker something will be done.

 

i nice strong email to the CEO of VISA UK might well be in order now.

 

dx

[42man]

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2011/15-11

[dx100uk]

i havve had a mai from a fellow siteteam member that indicates they got

very good service on almost the same issue from contacting the

natwest fraud dept directly without going through customer services.

 

dx

[BrownEggs]

Hmm, I never thought along those lines. And in all fairness, when I spoke to the Natwest Fraud Dept. on Saturday they seemed a bit clueless and asked me to call VISA instead, who weren't open until Monday. I'll give them a ting-a-ling tomorrow and let you know, BTW, still waiting for myloans.co.uk to get back to me.... I'm so surprised! When I spoke to them yesterday, the man sounded so sincere, and I'm sure that they wanted to clear up this whole sorry mess and give me back the money their company took as quick as possible

[dx100uk]

i would also add that if they continue to 'wriggle'

threaten them with being implicitly mentioned

as a party in a police fraud investigation

 

you have already spoken with your local poloice fraud dept

and they have asked you to make one last attempt to resolve

the issue.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

This fsa guide has now been updated:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/consumer_...ghts_guide.pdf

 

Here's the text:

 

Cancelling a regular

card payment:

 

When you give your credit or debit card

details to a company and authorise

them to take regular payments from

your account, such as for a gym

membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’

or ‘continuous payment authority’.

These are often confused with direct

debits, but do not offer the same

guarantee if the amount or date of the

payment changes.

In most cases, regular payments can

be cancelled by telling the company

taking the payments. However, you

have the right to cancel them directly

with your bank or card issuer by telling

it that you have stopped permission for

the payments. Your bank or card issuer

must then stop them – it has no right to

insist that you agree this first with the

company taking the payments.

Be aware, though, that you will still be

responsible for paying any money that

you owe.

..

 

dx

[Bit of an idiot]

Probably too late now but after a bit of stupidity on my part that resulted in the loss of £69.99 of my valuable funds to Myloans, I have managed to get back £64.99.

 

To achieve this, I

 

1. E-mailed the correct address with a copy of the terms and conditions, cancelling within 14 days.

2. After getting no response I e-mailed again but this time informed them that for every day after the 30 days they fail to pay me the refund, I will charge them an admin fee for having to remind them.

3. Enhance then sent me a questionnaire to complete to get the refund - I declined and reminded them that I had met the requirement in item 1.

4. They then advised they would refund after 30 days of the day i sent them a reminder - I referred them back to point 1.

5. They finally agreed to send me a cheque within 30 days of the day I first terminated the agreement less £5 for the assistance they had provided so far. I accepted this.

 

Cheque arrived on time - cost to me is £5 plus some e-mails and red faced for being so stupid in the first place. Also cancelled/replaced Debit card to ensure they couldn't try and take money off me again.

[BrownEggs]

Just read your post, bit of an idiot. Funnily enough I had just emailed them regarding this matter when I saw your reply to my thread in my inbox.

 

I haven't updated you all for a while but as you were aware, I got nowhere fast with not only myloan, but also Natwest and Visa. By god, Visa will be getting a vicious email from me. They spoke to me like a mug because, in their words, "you've taken out a lot of loans lately so you must have given them permission. No investigation, no nothing. Just the assumption that, because I was short of cash, I'm some kind of untrustworthy idiot. Natwest were no better, they said that technically, the taking of the money by myloan did not constitute fraud. Well, the next time I take money out of somebody's bank account without their permission, I'll use that one in court

 

After much toing and froing with this company, I decided that my best course of action would be to cancel the agreement. I maintain that i never made one in the first place but the agreement was there regardless. I'd rather lose a fiver than carry on this malarkey, so sent the request in.

 

They attempted to ring me that day, I did not answer them and emailed them again to remind them that i only wanted correspondence to be made via email.

 

Myloan emailed me the day after and said they'd sent me a 'fraud pack' that they needed back with a load of documentation of mine required to make a refund. I told them that I had not received a 'fraudpack' and in any case i would not be sending them any documentation of mine in the post. No way pedro.

 

No reply, no reply, no reply..... I sent another email a couple of weeks ago. This time, I used a bit of common sense in regards to the email recipients, in the hope that i could have it sent to the directors inbox too. And he received it!!! In total I had sent the same email to around eight employees or mailboxes within the company, including the directors email.

 

The response was from their customer service supervisor, Emily Worthington, who said that the cheque would be sent to me on the 27th February. As of today,it is not with me, hence me sending them a query this morning.

 

I'll keep you updated...

Edited March 3, 2012 by BrownEggs

[BrownEggs]

I had a response to the email I'd sent them the other day, it said the cheque had been sent.

Ahhhrrrgghhhh! Well I didn't have it! I asked for it to be sent straight to my bank account instead, they promised to do this....

And I got my money back this morning. Minus the £5 "fee" allowed in the CCA, but after all the hassle, I'll happily let that slide.

 

But of course there are others that may not get their money back, though.

[jsis]

Same thing happened to me.. I told them I want my £69.99 taken without my consent back into my account, even though my bank Natwest had given them an authorisation code that's why they can't help me get money back from Myloans - but how they got this money on the sly was from obtaining my data from a third party. I shall be using cheque books from now on told bank to freeze any sort of direct card payment methods. I phoned Myloans they stalled refunding my money back by asking me to fill in a cancellation form I told them to stick it and just do it over the phone, then I made them email a confirmation that they will refund this money back into my account within 30 days - OR ELSE I warned them that the POLICE will be at their door and MY LAWYERS will also be opening a case to sue them on my behalf- Lets see whether my money will be refunded cause I am eager to nail them down to take responsibility of their slyness and dodgy conning ways to access your card details in the first place!

 

Speaking to their manager I asked to speak to the owner a Gregory Cox - oh wait he is in jail currently facing rape charges in Australia

check out Daily Mail under name Gregory Cox Multimillionaire bondi beach charge in Australia but Manager only confirmed that yes the founder Gregory Cox is facing that problem but he isn't running the company, the one running the company is a Michael Christian Ransom and he isn't contactable, I was referred to write a letter to their general office! They also use the names: Quintessential Finance, A loan please, Magic Finance, Magic Loans, Enhance Financial Services, enhancefs.co.uk, cloud9. I spoke on their number 0845 491 8820 and I spoke for a good half hour after they hung up on the first 5 minutes of calling and I probably spent a phone bill of £30 so yeah thanks a lot but I am sure the majority of people you have upset over this we are fighting back and we will get you closed down!!

[el_jenners]

I got in touch with a mate of mine that works in LBG debit card disputes and chargebacks team.

 

Basically, with the visa chargeback scheme for debit cards, there's a massive book of rules and regs they have to follow in order to make a chargeback. It's similar in a way to the credit card scheme - this is what I'm familiar with as I worked in the credit card chargebacks team for a year or so.

 

One of the reason codes - that's the reason or justification for making the chargeback - is non-receipt of refund as promised by the merchant. In order to satisfy visa that the chargeback is legit, you need confirmation IN WRITING (as an e-mail or a letter) giving a time frame in which the refund will be made, and proof that this hasn't happened.

 

The moral of this is : DO NOT speak to these people on the phone. In the first instance, e-mail them asking them for their cancellation form, and send it back to them. Ask them in this e-mail, when you can expect the refund to be made. They'll give you the "it'll be done in 30 days" spiel, fail to adhere to that, and after 30 days (provided you keep the e-mail) you can ask your bank for a chargeback on the basis that you *were* promised a refund, but that it's not been made in the timeframe you were given by the merchant.

 

Simples. But only if you have an e-mail confirming that you'll get the refund. I hope this helps though. I got my paperwork through from Barclays today and have printed off the e-mail. It'll be processed sometime next week, and usually takes a couple of working days.

 

That's not the end of it though- the merchant *can* make a represent for the funds. But if you contact myloan and send them an e-mail advising that, in spite of previous correspondence stating you will get a refund you've still not had one, and tell them that you have asked your bank to process a chargeback on grounds of that refund not being received, AND that you consider the matter closed on their end and that you do not wish them to process the refund, you'll wait for the chargeback AND keep the e-mail and send a copy to your bank, you'll be fine.

 

I hope that helps anyone who's still experiencing grief from these morons.

 

 

And BrownEggs - are you sure that you actually spoke to visa? There seems to be a lot of confusion amongst people about how the chargeback scheme, customers included. Let me explain - in every financial institution that issues cards, there is a chargeback team. (chargebacks and disputed transactions are the same thing - fraud is a whole other kettle of fish and not the same thing at all). The chargeback team is part of that financial institution, but they work to and use computer software, regulations, hand books etc issued by the card issuer (Visa, AmEx, etc). If you speak to the chargeback team, you are NOT speaking to Visa/AmEx/whoever. You're speaking to a specialised team within that financial institution.

 

the card issuer has little to nothing to do with the chargeback in that regard - they do not investigate the matter or process the refund or anything.

 

Basically - staff who work in the branches or the general call centres of a bank know very little at all to do with the chargeback process, so don't believe anything they tell you. It's a highly complex and very specialised department.

[renegadeimp]

That was a long post. Especially when visa charges back immediately then does the investigation. Its well known how their chargebacks are performed. They are just very reluctant to do so.

[el_jenners]

That was a long post. Especially when visa charges back immediately then does the investigation. Its well known how their chargebacks are performed. They are just very reluctant to do so.

 

 

It's *not* Visa that does it - it's the chargebacks department in your bank, working to the regs Visa/AmEx/MC issue, and using their software (I know the MC one is called MasterCom) to process it.

 

Should know and all, seeing as how I used to process chargebacks for a living and all...

[renegadeimp]

You may well have been employed by that's not open for debate.however we have a lot of documentation and peoples experiences to fall back on.

[el_jenners]

You may well have been employed by that's not open for debate.

 

Dude, that doesn't make sense. Dafuq?

 

Think as you wish - my experience is that the overwhelming majority of people are stupid and don't even know the difference between a fraud and a dispute. Most people don't even know the difference between a bank and a card issuer. So it stands to reason that most people can't understand exactly who does their chargeback.

 

Your assertion that the chargeback would just be made without any supporting docs or evidence is BS too.

 

When processing a chargeback through mastercom, you have to scan a declaration from the customer as well as something in writing confirming why they're getting a chargeback. There's a fair degree of investigation too, including working through a fairly extensive list of requirements. Banks don't just dish out chargebacks like sweeties.

 

Funny, isn't it, that I worked there for a couple of years and I never once heard of Visa making a chargeback. I smell BS.

[el_jenners]

I mean, look on the Visa UK website - doesn't mention ANYWHERE how to get a chargeback.

 

People may *think* that Visa have made them, but it's the chargeback department in a Bank. That's all. Sorry to bust your bubble, but Visa have got better stuff to worry about. That's why they and AmEx and MasterCard give banks the software and regs - so they can handle them themselves.

[renegadeimp]

Doesnt matter who performs the transaction. The fact is that the chargeback happens.

[greenfieldrobin]

Myself like Browneggs foolishly decided that a payday loan was perhaps a quick solution to a small problem and ended up losing 69.99 from my bank account after i was declined a loan based on my credit score ( neither here nor there not ) but after calling myloan i spent no more than 5 minutes on the phone with them, i was assured a refund of my money within the next 30 days

[madpriest]

Doesnt matter who performs the transaction. The fact is that the chargeback happens.

 

el_jenners was trying to give you some techincal information as to how the

chargeback works - -but oh no renegadeimp, you didnt listen - you obviously knew

better and were very rude about it.

 

An apology is in order methinks