Credit Solutions Ltd - prob with payment

[lawrence2011]

Currently making payments of £1.00 per month (via Postal Order) to Credit Solutions, and have been dutifully doing so for 5 months now.

 

Last November I received a letter from them saying payment for Nov had not been received.

Like the good little boy I am, I sent a kind reply saying that payment had been sent but in good faith I included a replacement PO.

I also stated quite clearly that I would be making a claim to Royal Mail for the lost letter and if it turned out Credit Solutions had in fact received the payment

I would expect a full apology and the "extra" payment to be returned.

 

Well it took until the middle of January for Royal Mail to respond to my claim and - surprise surprise, Credit Solutions paid the PO into their bank account on 4th Nov,

4 days before the due date and 10 days before their original "missed payment" letter,

resulting in them having received 2 x payments of £1.00 for November.

 

Needless to say, a letter demanding an explanation and an apology was soon winging its way to Croydon, but as yet I am still waiting for a response.

 

And as if to further illustrate their complete and utter incompetence they returned the copy of Royal Mail's letter

I had included (as I thought it might be useful) with a note saying "we think this letter has been sent to us in error"!

The useless b*ggers couldn't even read my letter to find out what it was all about before returning the copy!

 

Initially I was quite happy for them to keep the extra payment and deduct it from the balance,

but now I just feel like being as awkward as hell by demanding they return the £1.00,

accusing them of obtaining money by false pretences, and I think the word 'fraud' may have crept into my letter.

 

Though I may be pre-empting their response, what course is open to me should they refuse to accept liability?

 

Thanks for any advice or just your thoughts on the matter.

[citizenB]

You could start an official complaint which should force them to address the issue. They know that the £1.00 is a legal fee for a legal document and if they cannot provide then they should return the money.

 

Send a letter to them headed quite clearly - Official Complaint - They have 8 weeks in which to respond or issue a a final response or deadlock letter. Whereas a letter not headed as such will be treated as general correspondence and there are no time scales for that.

 

You should lay out your complaint chronologically, bullet pointing the issues you want addressed and what you want them to do to rectify any mistakes.

 

In this case, it will be the return of the £1.00 + the 50p charge that is made for the purchase of the PO.. this is because you were put in a position of having to replace something that wasnt lost and that they had already banked.

 

You require to be refunded for any postage in replacing the PO and also the cost of the telephone call to the Post office.

 

You will also require compensation for your time in trying to resolve this issue.. say 2 hours @ £18.00 an hour.. this is the Litigant in person rate for costs if a court claim was issued. .

 

Did I miss any thing

 

Please keep us updated on this.

[lawrence2011]

Thanks for the advice. There are obviously some points you have made that I have omitted from my letter of complaint, but knowing how useless CSL are I have a feeling they may challenge my complaint, after all it appears the original payment which they received has not been 'checked' against my account, hence the letter stating payment had been missed. If they don't play ball, would my next step be to put the account in dispute? Would I be in the right to refuse to make any more payments until they acknowledge their error or would I run the risk of ending up in court?

[citizenB]

I'm afraid that ceasing payments is something only you can decide.

 

Whilst you continue to make even a token payment, it shows you as being the more reasonable.

 

I am a little puzzled as to why you would pay by postal order though.. Do you have access to online banking ? If so, you can set up a standing order, which leaves you in control, and it will save you the cost of the postal order and postage

[lawrence2011]

At the time of setting up the plan there were "complications" with my bank, so in order to keep things private I paid by PO. Now, as I have managed to get most of my finances in some sort of order I pay most of my numerous payments online.

 

Agreed, at least in keeping up my payments I'm not giving them any ammunition. Would in all probability be a case of cutting of my nose to spite my face!

[citizenB]

 

Understood..

[lawrence2011]

Quick (ish) update on this problem.

 

Received today the latest in a long line of pathetic responses from CSL, still insisting I made a CCA request and that is what they have used the £1.00 payment for. I made no such request in the month stated. Whilst initially stating they did not receive payment, I have since proved by way of letter from Royal Mail thay did in fact pay the postal order into their account. Now they appear to be weaseling out of it by saying i made a CCA request. This seems very dubious to me.

They are now asking for me to provide proof of the payment i.e. cheque book stub. I, in turn am going to request they provide proof that I requested a CCA.

They are also stating they will not pay the invoice I sent them to cover my out of pocket expenses (not surprising), so I have now threatened them with taking them to the small claims court.

I am about to reply by putting the account into dispute but would like anyones advice about this - am I within my rights to do this?

I recently wrote to make an official complaint to Capital One, the company the original debt is with, asking them if there is another way around this and also telling them I am not prepared to deal with CSL any longer.

 

Would welcome views and advice on this matter. Is there any more I can do to put pressure on them to sort it out? or is it time to pull the plug and let it go to court?

[citizenB]

There is no doubt there is a dispute.

 

Did you retain the postal order receipt.. ? I would telephone the post office again the number is 01246 542091 - and say that the company are denying that they received the postal order, could they please write and confirm what they told you a while back.. that the postal order was cashed

 

If you did decide to take them to court then you would almost certainly require this.

 

Have you ever made a request for a CCA ? They will be required to provide proof that you did - also, one of your questions should be.. if they thought that was what it was for.. why havent they sent the CCA as requested, or a letter saying that they are attempting to obtain a copy.

 

How did you send your monthly payment.. I know you sent the £1.00 postal order.. but did you send it with a payment slip or note ? How did you keep your record of having sent the payments.. by keeping the PO receipts ?

 

All this builds up a picture of how you were paying and keeping a record and how they couldnt possibly consider the payment anything other than what it was .. the monthly token payment.

 

It seems to me as though you could claim there were three disputes here.

 

The misuse of your token payment - I guess this could be a reason to take legal action as it makes it look as though you personally broke the payment agreement in place which could have serious consequences.

The lack of CCA if they truly considered that your payment was for a CCA - despite no request from you to provide one

The failure to respond adequately to your genuine complaint.

 

Please do not make threats of legal action unless you seriously intend to follow through..

 

I would wait a while and see what others have to say.

[ploddertom]

I'd be tempted to throw a spanner in the works and ask for a SAR.

 

PT

[lawrence2011]

Thanks for the quick responses. In reply;

 

I have always kept all PO receipts, but as the one in question was needed by Royal Mail as part of the claim, I now only have a photocopy. The strange thing is, it would appear they are now not disputing receiving the payment, as I already have a letter from CSL saying they have received a payment dated 17 Nov 2011 (the replacement PO) and if they are now claiming I have sent them £1.00 for a CCA request this can only be the original £1.00 PO I sent at the end of October, the same PO Royal Mail say was paid into a bank account on 4 Nov 2011.

 

I have never requested a CCA from CSL. I requested a CCA directly from Capital One back in March 2011 which they duly supplied.

 

I totally agree regarding your point about the CCA request - if the £1.00 payment was taken for a CCA request, why have I never received one?

 

They cannot possibly claim I am in arrears, as I sent a replacement PO which they have since admitted they received. I also have a letter which shows the balance was reduced by £1.00 sometime between 14 Nov and 25 Nov 2011. All subsequent payments have been made via their website and all monthly balances show payments have been accepted. This still leaves the £1.00 payment which they initially said they never received, but which I can now prove was banked on 4 Nov 2011 and which, 3 months later they now claim they took as payment for a CCA request I never made.

 

All postal payments made by Postal Order were accompanied by a covering letter stating my name and address, account numbers (both CSL ref & Capital One acc no's) and what the payment related to.

 

Point taken regarding requesting a SAR, and I shall consider this prior to sendning my reply. I'm guessing that in requesting a SAR they will then need to provide documentary evidence of my (alleged) CCA request?

 

I am more than happy to make an official complaint to the FSO, and to take action in the small claims court to recover my out of pocket expenses if it is my legal right to do so. I feel that at best they have been obstructive and at worst they have lied and attempted to deceive me in order to extract more money from me and in doing so have subjected me to unnecessary distress.

[lawrence2011]

Follow up;

 

I would just like clarification on using the right terminology, if anyone can help. Am I right in assuming if the account is 'in dispute' then CSL must cease all debt collection activities until the dispute is resolved, therefore enabling me to rightfully 'suspend' making payments?

 

I not sure if Im getting confused with something else. Any help gratefully received.

[citizenB]

Right, you have absolute proof that you have never requested from CSL, a CCA.. so as you say at best they are attempting to mislead and at worse out right fibbing.

 

Hmm, are they supposed to cease collection activity whilst an account is in dispute.. well yes, I guess they are according to the OFT guidelines.. but then these DCAs are constantly breaching them.. so what is one more !!

 

The photocopy of the PO is ok, they have confirmed in any case that they did receive it and the post office will be able (if necessary ) to confirm that it was submitted in respect of a claim/query.

 

The better records you keep the better chance you have in any complaint or claim against them.

 

I think what you need to do is to establish on what basis you would be issuing a claim if you were to go that route or whether you think that a complaint to the FOS and OFT would be a safer option.

 

A complaint to the FOS is long winded.. but.. CSL will be charged £500.00 for the investigation and the FOS do have the power to award compensation.

 

You should without question make a complaint to the OFT - they cannot and will not investigate on behalf of an individual, but they keep a record of the number of complaints made against a company and if sufficient received will then investigate for the "greater good". So the more complaints they receive the better.

[lawrence2011]

Ok thanks, very useful info & advice.

 

Regarding making official complaint to firstly the FSO - they specify I must give CSL 8 weeks in which to respond. Is the 8 weeks from my initial complaint to CSL or 8 weeks from CSL's final response (which they havent given me yet)?

In other words, can make the complaint whilst I am still waiting for CSL to sort it out, because the way things are looking CSL seem to be in no rush to sort it out? Can I issue CSL a 'final warning' type of letter to say - "you have until X date to sort it out"?

 

Re - the 'in dispute' situation. I really do not wish to deal with CSL anymore and I wonder what the outcome might be if I cease my payments under the dispute notice or whether I would simply be in breach of the agreement and risk court action.

Part of me wants to say stuff it, lets go to court and show CSL to be the useless cretins they are, but I appreciate its a risky strategy and ultimately could end in my bankruptcy.

 

I have written to Capital One, making an official complaint about CSL, spelling the whole matter out, and asking them if there is some other way to make regular payments against this debt. I am awaiting their response, but I fear the debt has been 'sold on' to CSL and so Cap One will simply wash their hands of it.

 

Could I ask your opinion on getting a solicitor involved? Would it add gravitas to my side of the story or just make matters worse?

Edited February 19, 2012 by lawrence2011
ommited detail

[citizenB]

Ok thanks, very useful info & advice.

 

Regarding making official complaint to firstly the FSO - they specify I must give CSL 8 weeks in which to respond. Is the 8 weeks from my initial complaint to CSL or 8 weeks from CSL's final response (which they havent given me yet)? - 8 weeks from the date you made your complaint. If they have not responded at all, even to give you a final response then you can classify their non response as a final response IYKWIM If they havent responded within 8 weeks then they arent going to respond.. period.. I am assuming you sent by a tracked method of mailing and have the proof of receipt by them?

 

 

In other words, can make the complaint whilst I am still waiting for CSL to sort it out, because the way things are looking CSL seem to be in no rush to sort it out? Can I issue CSL a 'final warning' type of letter to say - "you have until X date to sort it out"? - How long ago did you make the complaint ? If say 4 weeks or more then a reminder that you are expecting a response to your Official Complaint by DATE

 

Re - the 'in dispute' situation. I really do not wish to deal with CSL anymore and I wonder what the outcome might be if I cease my payments under the dispute notice or whether I would simply be in breach of the agreement and risk court action. - Was the account in question assigned to CSL ie did they purchase it or are they merely collecting on behalf of the original creditor? I suspect if has been assigned to them, and they now own the account you might be saddled with them! If they are merely collection agents then you could make a complaint to the original creditor.

 

Part of me wants to say stuff it, lets go to court and show CSL to be the useless cretins they are, but I appreciate its a risky strategy and ultimately could end in my bankruptcy. What type of sum are talking about here? Mega money or below say £1,000

 

I have written to Capital One, making an official complaint about CSL, spelling the whole matter out, and asking them if there is some other way to make regular payments against this debt. I am awaiting their response, but I fear the debt has been 'sold on' to CSL and so Cap One will simply wash their hands of it. Right, you have answered the question above ! I doubt very much that Capone will help either.. they are a nasty American Company who believe UK law doesnt relate to them ??

 

Could I ask your opinion on getting a solicitor involved? Would it add gravitas to my side of the story or just make matters worse?

 

To be honest, you could deal with this yourself.. and if the sum is below £5,000 which will keep it into small claims (£10,000 in april I believe) then costs would be limited in any case.

 

My opinion for what it is worth would be... wait and see if they respond to your complaint - depending on their response - make your complaint to the FOS - It is my understanding that whilst a complaint is with the FOS then the DCA should put a halt on all collection actions.. but it is still your choice whether to cease payments or not..

 

Depending on your answer to the sum involved.. then perhaps we can reconsider what needs to be done

[lawrence2011]

Current balance on this debt is £3111.71 but I do have total debts over £34,000

 

Initial complaint letter was sent around 26 November 2011 though it was not specifically labelled as an official complaint. I subsequently received a response from one of their Complaints Officers, so I guess they acknowledged it as a letter of complaint. Letters have flown backwards n forwards regulalry ever since.

 

Weighing up options I think I will give CSL one last chance to put things right and then its off to FOS.

[citizenB]

Ok, if you send them a "I am waiting for either a resolution or your final response letter" giving them a date 8 weeks from your initial lettter.. But make it quite clear in this one.. that it is a complaint.

 

Something like ..

 

Dear Mr/Mrs whover,

 

I am writing to you in connection with my official complaint..... you have had NUMBER of weeks to resolve my complaint and the dispute remains .. I am advised that you are required to either resolve my complaint within 8 weeks or provide me with a Final response letter, which will allow me to take my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. I must remind you that the 8 weeks will expire on DATE

 

Something along those lines..

[lawrence2011]

Okay, thanks for that and for all the advice you have given, it really has helped. I will update the thread as and when anything happens.

[citizenB]