Landlord refuses to show us our electric bill!

[bendall34]

Our landlord has just handed us a invoice bill that he has made himself for £394.33 for just 77 days worth of electric, we thought there must be something wrong as in our last properties we where paying in the region of £50-60 and promptly asked to see the original utility bill, he replied saying we could only see the bill later next month after we have paid it as his accountant deals with it 'apparently' and hes very busy, and if we do want to see it his accountant is going to charge us £80 plus VAT! then my landlord is also going to charge for the trouble as well.

 

I feel he is trying to hide something and is trying to put us off seeing it, he became very aggressive to my partner after we confronted him with this and let himself into our house whilst my gf was feeding our little girl and proceeded to shout at her.

 

After this the police where duly called as i work away at sea she felt vunerable and upset. He is also charging us over 30p a day for standing charges which is ludicrous!the tenants before us left because of this same reason, and we are wanting out asap.

 

 

Is there any legal action or do i have any legal right to see this bill? any advice much appreciated.

Ben

Edited January 6, 2012 by citizenB
Spacing for easier reading

[citizenB]

Does sound a bit suspicious. I have flagged your thread for site team input.

[citizenB]

Are the utilities in your name or the Landlord's ?

[mariner51]

What does TA say about rent including utilities/Ts resp for utility bills esp gas/electric?

Does T have access to meter to take readings?

Are we talking quarterly bills or card/coin meters?

Name of account holder on bills?

Worth reminding LL it is prob illegal for him to resell energy above the Provider's standard tariff

[bendall34]

The bills are quarterly and in his name, we can't phone the energy provider Eon and get any information because the account is in his name.

All it says in the tenancy agreement is that all bills must be paid promptly, it doesn't say anything about us having to pay him. I do have access to the meter and the units he do add up, but the price and the amount we have used doesn't, I know something is going on but without seeing the bill I can't do anything.

Another issue we are having is that the council are saying that our house should only be a holiday let, and he's letting them out long term.

Ben

[seanamarts]

Do you pay council tax for this property. Are you living in a flat or converted house. If not what sort of property are you living in.

Have you checked that your meter has only your connection to it.

Your LL has no right to barge into your home at all whilst some one is present, he has to give at least 24 hours before making a visit.

You have every right to see the bill and he cannot charge you to see it either. as for the 30p charges a day, do you know what this is for.

[bendall34]

On his invoice it says the 30p is a standing charge for the meter even though I've heard Eon don't charge standing charges. My mother in law says that a reasonable standing charge would be around the 5/6p mark, he has 5 other properties in our courtyard and he does the electric the same for everyone. Our neighbours also got handed a £400 pound bill and they've been there 2 weeks less than us, but they don't seem to be doing anything about it because I'm guessing they have money and are not bothered by it.

Our house is a 3 bed cottage and we do pay council tax. I googled our house and it did come up as holiday cottages to. But the electric bill is my main concern.

[seanamarts]

Are you paying council tax straight to the council or your LL?

If you are paying CT then it shouldnt be classed as a holiday let. he has no right to charge you a standing charge, he is not supplying you electric. EON are.

I dont know how he thinks he can get away with this.

Have you asked EON to transfer the bill into your name.

Are you paying him for any other utility bill for example water rates

[seanamarts]

Eon charge about 12p a day for their standing charge

[Steve__M]

All it says in the tenancy agreement is that all bills must be paid promptly, it doesn't say anything about us having to pay him. I do have access to the meter and the units he do add up, but the price and the amount we have used doesn't, I know something is going on but without seeing the bill I can't do anything.

 

The above didn't quite make sense. Can you clarify:

- what does it actually say in the contract about utility bills (or other "bills").

- what does and doesn't agree with regard to the meter? Do the meter readings agree, but he is charging too much per unit? Or are the meter readings high compared with the amount you are using?

 

Suggest you start taking and properly recording regular meter readings.

 

I also understand that it is illegal to sell on electricity for a profit. If the meter is only for your property, it may be worth considering asking EON to change the bill to your name to try and bypass any future issues.

[citizenB]

The Maximum Resale Price is the most a landlord can charge a tenant for mains gas or mains electricity. A landlord cannot charge more for gas or electricity than the amount they have paid for it, plus VAT at the appropriate rate. Landlords can also recover the supplier's standing charge, by dividing on a pro-rata basis between tenants according to their varying levels of consumption.

 

This only applies to energy used in the home and the current rules, which were set by the Regulator, Ofgem, came into effect on 1 January 2003.

 

Maximum Resale Price will apply to you if you:

 

• rent your home and pay the landlord for the gas or electricity used
  
• are a leaseholder and buy your gas or electricity from the lessor
  
• are a student and buy your gas or electricity from the landlord
  
• own or rent a caravan and buy gas or electricity from the caravan site or park owner
  
• rent a holiday home or chalet and buy gas or electricity from the owner
  
• own a houseboat or marine craft and buy gas or electricity from the moorings operator.
  

The Maximum Resale Price does not apply:

 

 

• if you rent accommodation and the rent paid is inclusive, for example there is no specified charge for gas or electricity
  
• to gas or electricity that is used at industrial or commercial premises
  
• to the sale of liquefied petroleum gas
  

At your request, the landlord must produce copies of any bills from the supplier showing how much gas or electricity has been used. If more than one tenant is supplied at the property the landlord should also explain how an individual tenant's contribution has been calculated.

 

The information above covers the main aspects of the Maximum Resale Price. For more information, together with worked examples, you should see Ofgem's booklet 'The Resale of Gas and Electricity'.

 

Shelter/CAB/Trading Standards can all advise further on this.

 

Some more information for you. Note also that the LL MUST supply you with copies of the bills.

[R J Dearden]

Two things concern me here:

 

1. That the property MAY only have planning consent for Holiday Lettings and this may cause an issue if you wish to stay long term especially if the council put 2 + 2 together.

 

2. All the utilities if the tenant is liable for them should be in the tenants name only.

 

You could inform EON that you were the tenant from a certain date (tenancy start date), provide the meter reading from the start date until now and request a bill.

 

Otherwise, personally I would refuse to pay the landlords bill until such time as you can see/verify/query the original bill and I would write to him informing him of this.

[citizenB]

bendall, I have just discovered we have an Eon rep on the forums and have sent Helena an S.O.S. on your behalf.. Perhaps she can offer some advice for you.

[mariner51]

Also, no-one has asked if the move-in inventory included initial meter readings or if they were taken at the time by LL/T?

[45002]

On his invoice it says the 30p is a standing charge for the meter even though I've heard Eon don't charge standing charges. My mother in law says that a reasonable standing charge would be around the 5/6p mark, he has 5 other properties in our courtyard and he does the electric the same for everyone. Our neighbours also got handed a £400 pound bill and they've been there 2 weeks less than us, but they don't seem to be doing anything about it because I'm guessing they have money and are not bothered by it.

Our house is a 3 bed cottage and we do pay council tax. I googled our house and it did come up as holiday cottages to. But the electric bill is my main concern.

 

 

Hello bendall34

 

You can legal change the Electric and Gas accounts into your names and then choose your own utility supplier,Regardless of what it may say on any tenancy agreement..

 

Do it on line and use E billing,so the bills get sent to you via Email

[bendall34]

Thanks for the replies guys, sorry for the late response I work at sea and have just got into port.

I don't have the tenancy agreement on me so I can't quote but I know it doesn't say anything about paying the LL for the electric. I am worried that I'm powering his stable and other out building. We turned the power off to the house a few days ago as we are staying with my parents, my gf went to the house today and the LL's wife commented on the fact we have turned the power off so I'm wondering how she would know. We want out ASAP so that's not an issue to us.

Ben

[bendall34]

We took a meter reading when we moved in and the figure adds up. There just has to be something wrong we have no where near used £394.33 worth of electric we are using no more appliances than our last places and our electric was around £50 pm I don't see how we used almost 4 times that amount it doesn't add up. At first he tried charging us climate change levy but we challenged him on that and he took that off as we shouldn't be paying it, makes me wonder how long he's been charging the other tenants this and what else he's trying to get out of us.

[seanamarts]

We took a meter reading when we moved in and the figure adds up. There just has to be something wrong we have no where near used £394.33 worth of electric we are using no more appliances than our last places and our electric was around £50 pm I don't see how we used almost 4 times that amount it doesn't add up. At first he tried charging us climate change levy but we challenged him on that and he took that off as we shouldn't be paying it, makes me wonder how long he's been charging the other tenants this and what else he's trying to get out of us.

 

CCL is for business purposes only.. I would get some one from EON to come and do a check on the meter. Im having to agree with your suspicions that he maybe using your electricity to use for himself and charging you for it. I would explain to EON what is happening.

I think the reason why he is not showing you the bill is because he is being charge a CCL and that would be shown on the bill. I would refuse to pay the bill until you have been shown the original bill. I would put by the amount that you used to pay on your old property, so you have it to hand just in case EON kick up a fuss. I would also do a simple check to see how much you are using.. Turn off all your appliances even thing that would be on standby, so nothing is being used in your home, then go check the meter to see if it is still flashing, the fast it flashes the more electricity you are using, well you wouldnt be but he would. Make sure you do this when you know he is about. Then you would know whether he is definitely using your meter to run his electricity. For proof I would video you turning things off and then videoing the meter. Eon would possibly tell you to do this any way.

[citizenB]

I am rather concerned that the Eon Rep hasnt looked in on you yet !

[mariner51]

You don't have to sit & watch your meter going round all day. You can buy a wireless energy monitor for about £25 from B&Q, or E.on provide them foc for certain paperless billing customers. The detector clips around the main input cable to the meter and sends live demand readings to portable wireless monitor, (you can check how much a kettle, washing machine, computer uses and the background usage for kit on standby or mobile chargers. It stores data daily, weekly, monthly, yearly.

Is there any evidence of a feeder cable from your meter to stables or seperate fuse?

[45002]

I am rather concerned that the Eon Rep hasn't looked in on you yet !

 

The Eon rep is only going to be able to talk to the account holder about the bills and that's the LL

 

Hello bendall34 Again

 

Sorry to sound blunt,But

 

Your landlord is Ripping you Off....and making a profit at your Expense

 

Two things you can do

 

Move out and find somewhere else to live,as soon as you move into a new home take meter reading and choose your utility suppier and give them the readings..

 

or

 

Change the accounts into your name and shop around for a supplier of Electric,as I post in the below link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?332560-Landlord-refuses-to-show-us-our-electric-bill!&p=3668140&viewfull=1#post3668140

Edited January 12, 2012 by 45002

[seanamarts]

You don't have to sit & watch your meter going round all day. You can buy a wireless energy monitor for about £25 from B&Q, or E.on provide them foc for certain paperless billing customers. The detector clips around the main input cable to the meter and sends live demand readings to portable wireless monitor, (you can check how much a kettle, washing machine, computer uses and the background usage for kit on standby or mobile chargers. It stores data daily, weekly, monthly, yearly.

Is there any evidence of a feeder cable from your meter to stables or seperate fuse?

They dont have to watch the meter all day, they want to see if the meter is still using electric once they have turned off all their appliances, not to see how much is being used by them. If the meter is still running then this will prove that their meter is providing some one else with electricity and they are paying for it.

[seanamarts]

If someone has tampered with the electricity meter and is benefiting from what is essentially free electricity, while you foot the bill, this is a criminal offence!

ive been having a bit of a dig about and found the above, however it dosnt state who has to report it.

I am assuming it would be the electricity company. However, because the bill is in his name it may get a little complicated.

I would check the meter first, if it shows that he is using the electricity then I would first contact Eon. State what your LL is doing. I would ask them is it down to you to involve the police or them. I will see if I can find out more.

[Steve__M]

Is your meter modern enough to have switches on each fuse. If so, you may be able to work out which ones you need to run your appliances and which ones may be running the landlord's setup. If so, you switch off the ones running the landlord's set up and leave on yours.

 

Alternatively, wait till evening and see if any external lights/machinery goes off when you turn off your power.

 

Sounds like it would be unwise to transfer the bill to your name given that it is running things other than your house! Possibly, though, the power company could advise you whether the meter is just for your property.

 

If the contract doesn't say you have to pay this bill then don't pay it. However, do check the contract carefully when you can find it.

[mariner51]

"If someone has tampered with the electricity meter and is benefiting from what is essentially free electricity, while you foot the bill, this is a criminal offence!"

 

I would regard that as advice for LL where T has bypassed the meter. In this case there is no evidence that anyone has bypassed the meter, just running a legal post-meter extension cable to LL barn. If LL is getting free elec at Ts expense, then the best approach may be an allegation of LL re-selling energy at above standard tariff. So far there is no proof that LL is using Ts elec.

A prof elec and a multimeter could quickly arrive at an opinion (Ts exp)

The point of the energy monitor was to allow T to monitor diff appliance usage regularly over a month and collect evidence of normal pwer demand and any unattributable spikes from LL usage.

LL sounds dodgy and unlikely to provide the E.on bill, neither will E.on without a little subterfuge. T could report a faulty meter and supply the unique meter number rather than account number. Steve's last post has good advice.

T is needs to be pro-active to sort this before next voyage.