Transport Investigations Limited - Brought ticket before leaving station!

[Old-CodJA]

As you can see it does mention about 'administration costs'. I could be clutching at straws but I've got a hunch myself & god knows how many others will receive near identical letters over the next few weeks giving us the option to log in & pay these 'administration costs' to stop it from going further.

 

I implore any people out there who have been stopped by a member of TIL staff to put in a written complaint to ATW immediately. I’ve also written to my local MP & my Welsh Assembly representative.............When I’ve got any more information I’ll reply on here as it may help other people in the same situation.

 

 

I understand that if you think that you have not committed any offence you may well feel aggrieved, but as has already been pointed out, ignorance of any law is not a defence and complaining to an MP about that is unlikely to alter anything.

 

After all, if a law or byelaw has been broken whether by design or not, it is parliament who determine the law in the first place.

 

I’m not a dishonest person & I pay my train fare every time to use the train without exception. That’s why I’m not prepared to allow Transport Investigations Ltd (TIL) or Arriva Trains Wales (ATW) treat me in this manner. It’s an injustice that needs to be rectified.

 

If you had paid before you were spoken too I agree, it seems a bit strong to talk of prosecution although the byelaw actually does require every traveller to pay before getting on the train.

 

That should never stop anyone from complaining if they have justification of course, but just bear in mind that it might not change anything if the legislative guidelines have been applied.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Old-CodJA

[MrGates]

I can see where you are coming from on this issue and thinking that this is an injustice but as has clearly already been pointed out rules are rules and the law is the law. Iv followed this forum for a while now and there have been many cases where people have mentioned the use of mp's and the legal system to take on TOC' and none have come back to say thay they have been succesfull in changing the laws, I believe that many cases are fully justified for what action may follow as I listed at the start, but I do agree with you that prosecution in this case could be a tad harsh.

[Richie77]

I can see where you are coming from on this issue and thinking that this is an injustice but as has clearly already been pointed out rules are rules and the law is the law. Iv followed this forum for a while now and there have been many cases where people have mentioned the use of mp's and the legal system to take on TOC' and none have come back to say thay they have been succesfull in changing the laws, I believe that many cases are fully justified for what action may follow as I listed at the start, but I do agree with you that prosecution in this case could be a tad harsh.

 

I’m not trying to change laws & legislations. I’ve contacted my local MP & my Welsh Assembly representative to simply make them aware that I’ve made an official complaint to ATW as I feel I’ve been treated appallingly.

 

MP’s & AM’s can add their weight to people’s complaints & often have special direct access to various organisations. I have first hand experience of this as my local MP assisted me in a dispute with the Tax Credit Office a few years ago.

 

ATW has already been flooded with complaints on this issue & if other people feel that they’ve also been unfairly treated then they should put in a written complaint to ATW. ...............

 

I queued of my own accord to be served by one of the ATW members of staff selling tickets immediately upon leaving the train platform along with several other passengers.

 

Immediately after paying my fare & just as I was about to make my way to the exit barriers I was confronted by a member of TIL staff who alleged that I would have left the station without paying my train fare had he not stopped me. I now face prosecution & a criminal record which is so far beyond ridiculous that I’m struggling to comprehend it.

 

That’s why I’m complaining to ATW & that’s why I’ve copied in my local MP & AM in my correspondence.

Edited January 6, 2012 by citizenB
formatted for easier reading

[Nystagmite]

I now face prosecution & a criminal record

 

No sympathy. Sorry; but you've admitted travelling without a ticket and do deserve this.

[Old-CodJA]

I think the key comment that could be made in front of a Magistrates court would go something like this:

 

The rail company put in place a team of inspectors and staff at the station to check that all travellers are complying with the legislation in force. In this kind of excercise, some ticket sellers are deployed to allow for those travellers who come from stations where there are genuinely no facilities to buy a ticket. The traveller came from a station where s/he could have got a ticket, but did not pay the fare before getting on the train contrary to Byelaw and the rail company asks this question: Where would the fare have been paid if there were no staff at the station to collect it?

 

If you were the Magistrate, what answer would you come up with?

 

As a matter of interest, I have just looked around other sites with comments about these issues on ATW services and found this piece of guidance offered by the University of Glamorgan which appears to have been put out after they had contacted the rail company.

 

http://glamlifenews.glam.ac.uk/news/2011/dec/02/update-about-ticket-inspections-trains/

 

It seems a bit misleading because ATW do not issue penalty fares, but I think their position is clear.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Old-CodJA

[Welshie27]

to

Edited December 22, 2011 by Welshie27

[Stigy]

Richie77 i too have encountered these people, I had a season ticket, could not find it in my bag, immediately backed into a corner by two men who tried to make me admit i didnt have a ticket. I made them change the statement as i knew i had a ticket...

 

[sarcasm]So you managed to produce your ticket there and then? Of course you must have done, because we all know that if you couldn't find your ticket, the staff would just know that you had one, afterall, they are mind readers don't forget![/sarcasm]

[Old-CodJA]

Originally Posted by Welshie27 Richie77 i too have encountered these people, I had a season ticket, could not find it in my bag, immediately backed into a corner by two men who tried to make me admit i didnt have a ticket. I made them change the statement as i knew i had a ticket...

 

 

 

The offence in that case would appear to be 'fail to show' which is a breach of a strict liability under National Railway Byelaw 18.2.

[Grotesque]

I’m not trying to change laws & legislations. I’ve contacted my local MP & my Welsh Assembly representative to simply make them aware that I’ve made an official complaint to ATW as I feel I’ve been treated appallingly. MP’s & AM’s can add their weight to people’s complaints & often have special direct access to various organisations. I have first hand experience of this as my local MP assisted me in a dispute with the Tax Credit Office a few years ago. ATW has already been flooded with complaints on this issue & if other people feel that they’ve also been unfairly treated then they should put in a written complaint to ATW. ...............I queued of my own accord to be served by one of the ATW members of staff selling tickets immediately upon leaving the train platform along with several other passengers. Immediately after paying my fare & just as I was about to make my way to the exit barriers I was confronted by a member of TIL staff who alleged that I would have left the station without paying my train fare had he not stopped me. I now face prosecution & a criminal record which is so far beyond ridiculous that I’m struggling to comprehend it. That’s why I’m complaining to ATW & that’s why I’ve copied in my local MP & AM in my correspondence.

 

Happy Christmas

[Richie77]

Happy Christmas

 

.....& a Happy New Year!!

[RPI]

The strangest thing about this thread is the fact that ATW are actually showing an interest in Revenue Protection, something that has been non-exitent in Wales since the days of Wales & West! Do ATW now actually have some RPI's?

[Richie77]

The strangest thing about this thread is the fact that ATW are actually showing an interest in Revenue Protection, something that has been non-exitent in Wales since the days of Wales & West! Do ATW now actually have some RPI's?

 

Who knows?.....but if some of the contributors to this thread have their way then anyone stepping foot on a train without purchasing a ticket beforehand (valid reason or not) should be forcibly taken away & then publicly executed. The sad thing is that they’ve probably all just got aroused at that statement.

[seb1970]

To Nystagmite,GOONS and other pro transport investigation ltd forum members WE WON,

GOONS 0, MY WIFE 1,

 

I contacted the company on behalf of my wife and it seems to me that what they are hopeing for is that people dont contact them and the case will go to prosecuction,this then means that they will win the case.

I told the lady at the company that with the evidence that we have that it would be unfair to prosecute and that we would be getting a solicitor and we WILL GO TO COURT TO GIVE THE JUDGE OUR SIDE OF THE STORY.

A few days later there was a letter in the post telling us that nothing would be going further!

[Richie77]

@seb1970 - Couldn't have said it better myself. Well done for standing your ground....I'm glad you & your wife got a result.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Richie77

[Nystagmite]

What a disgrace. So you travel without a valid ticket and get off?

[Richie77]

What a disgrace. So you travel without a valid ticket and get off?

 

 

If that’s upset you.....then you won’t like this at all. >>>>>

 

I’ve now had written confirmation from ATW that “they will be instructing Transport Investigations Ltd to close my file & take no further action in connection with the alleged Byelaw breach”. >>>>>

 

No doubt that will also upset several contributors to this thread as in their eyes ‘the law is the law’ & I won’t have ‘got what I deserved’. >>>>>

 

I would like to point out to these contributors that this is in fact the UK not North Korea & the ‘C’ in CAG stands for ‘consumer’ not ‘communist’. >>>>>

 

If a consumer feels that they’ve been unfairly treated by a company or organisation then they have the right to complain. >>>>>

 

Any people out there who feel that they’ve also been unfairly treated by Transport Investigations Ltd to put in a written complaint to ATW immediately. >>>>>

 

I feel sorry for the inadequate individuals who have contributed negatively to this & other similar threads - as they appear to take great pleasure in other people’s misfortune.

 

#victoryismine

Edited January 6, 2012 by citizenB
formatted for easier reading

[citizenB]

My local station has the ticket desk and then someone inspecting those tickets before you can even get onto the platform !!

[LaughingGirl]

My local station has the ticket desk and then someone inspecting those tickets before you can even get onto the platform !!

 

At Southampton Central Station, you can't even get onto the platform without a ticket. You have to go through one of those tube station type barriers!

[Nystagmite]

At Southampton Central Station, you can't even get onto the platform without a ticket. You have to go through one of those tube station type barriers!

 

it's like that in Plymouth. I think it's Bournemouth you can just go through the barriers.

[Grotesque]

If that’s upset you.....then you won’t like this at all. >>>>>

 

I’ve now had written confirmation from ATW that “they will be instructing Transport Investigations Ltd to close my file & take no further action in connection with the alleged Byelaw breach”. >>>>>

 

No doubt that will also upset several contributors to this thread as in their eyes ‘the law is the law’ & I won’t have ‘got what I deserved’. >>>>>

 

I would like to point out to these contributors that this is in fact the UK not North Korea & the ‘C’ in CAG stands for ‘consumer’ not ‘communist’. >>>>>

 

If a consumer feels that they’ve been unfairly treated by a company or organisation then they have the right to complain. >>>>>

 

Any people out there who feel that they’ve also been unfairly treated by Transport Investigations Ltd to put in a written complaint to ATW immediately. >>>>>

 

I feel sorry for the inadequate individuals who have contributed negatively to this & other similar threads - as they appear to take great pleasure in other people’s misfortune.

 

#victoryismine

 

Can't wait for you to do it again, numb nuts.

[Old-CodJA]

Can't wait for you to do it again, numb nuts.

 

It is true that many TOCs maintain a list of travellers who have been given a written warning.

 

I’ve now had written confirmation from ATW that “they will be instructing Transport Investigations Ltd to close my file & take no further action in connection with the alleged Byelaw breach”. >>>>>

 

Well done,

 

It will be interesting to know if the letter goes on to remind the traveller that a ticket must be purchased before boarding a train in future? Maybe you can post the full letter on here with personal details removed?

 

I know that this has been the case with those TOCs where it was decided that some cases might be closed with a warning rather than pack courts with long lists.

 

In those circumstances the company might just close first time cases with a warning letter, though it's not always the case.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[Richie77]

Can't wait for you to do it again, numb nuts.

 

[laughs] You think I’m going to do it again? After I’ve almost been prosecuted this time? [laughs] You’re even more ‘special’ than I first thought. I tell you what, IF I’m ever prosecuted for fare evasion in the future [laughs] - I’ll let you know as it’ll obviously bring some joy to your sad existence. In the meantime enjoy your wait. I’m happy to help those less fortunate. #careinthecommunity

[Richie77]

It is true that many TOCs maintain a list of travellers who have been given a written warning.

[gasp] Oh no....I’m on ‘the list’!!! Being as I won’t ever be stepping foot on a train without a ticket again that won’t make any difference.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Richie77

[Richie77]

It is true that many TOCs maintain a list of travellers who have been given a written warning.

[gasp] Oh no....I’m on ‘the list’!!! Being as I won’t ever be stepping foot on a train without a ticket again that won’t make any difference.

[Richie77]

Well done,

Thank you.

Maybe you can post the full letter on here with personal details removed?

Just so you can say “oh yes, from the letter I can see what the TOC has done here” & “I’ve seen various TOC’s handle cases like this many, many, many times before.....aren’t I clever?”.

I know that this has been the case with those TOCs where it was decided that some cases might be closed with a warning rather than pack courts with long lists.

 

In those circumstances the company might just close first time cases with a warning letter, though it's not always the case.

Any people out there who’ve got success stories after being unfairly treated by Transport Investigations Ltd should put their experiences on here. The blinkered pro-Revenue Protection crowd would love to here from you.