Cap1 & CCA return

[sequenci]

Has anyone got the name Wilson's case where they ruled that she could keep the car? And that the creditor had no rights at all?

 

i have the full transcripts of each stage, do you still need them?

[un1boy]

i have the full transcripts of each stage, do you still need them?

 

If you could, I'll PM you my email!! Thanks!

[sequenci]

good luck reading it all, it's HUGE!

[MUTT]

shane5408 & peterbard,

 

Thanks for your replies to my earlier post. I am in dispute with Blackhorse Finance over my current loan agreement and requesting the refund of certain charges applied to the account.

 

In response to my complaint I have been supplied with statements of account and a copy of the loan agreement. This shows the amount of the loan, the duration of the agreement, total charge for credit and monthly interest rate. It also shows my signature but at the bottom of the agreement there are two boxes one for their signature and the other for the date of the agreement. These have been left blank. At the very bottom it shows page 1 of 2 and Black Horses Copy.

 

Because of the ongoing dispute I stopped making my monthly paments until the dispute was resolved only for Black Horse to default me. Again I complained that they could not do this, however they were quite adamant that they could and that they could continue to regester adverse information to the CRA as long as my account was in arrears and regardless of any dispute that was still current.

 

I contacted the ICO who advised that Black Horse were within their rights to issue a default and that they had a duty to report any missed payments to the CRA. They also advised that Black Horse were under no obligation to supply me with a default notice and were at liberty to register the default without my knowledge.

 

So, is my loan agreement enforceable without any company signature or date and is it correct what the ICO say in what Black Horse are allowed to do with my data.

 

Cheers

 

Mutt

[shane5408]

shane5408 & peterbard,

 

Thanks for your replies to my earlier post. I am in dispute with Blackhorse Finance over my current loan agreement and requesting the refund of certain charges applied to the account.

 

In response to my complaint I have been supplied with statements of account and a copy of the loan agreement. This shows the amount of the loan, the duration of the agreement, total charge for credit and monthly interest rate. It also shows my signature but at the bottom of the agreement there are two boxes one for their signature and the other for the date of the agreement. These have been left blank. At the very bottom it shows page 1 of 2 and Black Horses Copy.

 

Because of the ongoing dispute I stopped making my monthly paments until the dispute was resolved only for Black Horse to default me. Again I complained that they could not do this, however they were quite adamant that they could and that they could continue to regester adverse information to the CRA as long as my account was in arrears and regardless of any dispute that was still current.

 

I contacted the Information Commissioners Office who advised that Black Horse were within their rights to issue a default and that they had a duty to report any missed payments to the CRA. They also advised that Black Horse were under no obligation to supply me with a default notice and were at liberty to register the default without my knowledge.

 

So, is my loan agreement enforceable without any company signature or date and is it correct what the Information Commissioners Office say in what Black Horse are allowed to do with my data.

 

Cheers

 

Mutt

 

Hi Mutt,

 

Ideally we need to see a pic of the agreement, are u able to scan one and post it on the site?

 

Also, it sounds like this is a fixed sum credit agreement in which case the required prescribed terms that must be on the agreement are

A. Amount of Credit

B. Repayments (see peterbards post on page 1 for more info)

 

If either one of these is missing from the agreement it is uneforcable in court.

 

You also mentioned that the agreement was signed by you but not the creditor. This means the agreement has been improperly executed and as a result can only be enforced against the debtor on an order of the court.

 

In regards to the dates of the signatures being omitted, I think the Regs in a non-cancellable agreement do allow for this but only when the agreement has been properly executed, ie signed by BOTH parties:

 

signing of agreement:

6.-

(3)the signature of the said document shall be made in the following manner-

(a)by the debtor or hirer, or by or on behalf of the debtor or hirer in the case of a partnership or an unincorporated body of persons, in the space in the document indicated for the purpose, and subject to sub-paragraph © below, the date of the signature shall be inserted in the space in the document indicated for the purpose;

b)by the creditor or owner, or by a person on his behalf, outside any signature box in which the debtor or hirer may sign and, subject to sub-paragraph © below, the date of the signature shall be inserted outside any such signature box;

© in the case of a regulated agreement which is not a cancellable agreement, the date on which the unexecuted agreeement becomes an executed agreement may be inserted in the document and in such a case any other date specified in paragraphs (a) and (b) above need not be inserted

 

I would argue that © does not apply here because as the agreement has only been signed by the debtor and NOT the creditor hence it is not and never became executed hence it needs to have been dated by the creditor as stated in (b).

 

In regards to defaults and CRA's Section 13.6 of the banking code states that creditor may not register defaults against you or pass info to cra's while the account is in dispute.

 

regards,

shane

[Peterbard]

shane5408 & peterbard,

 

Thanks for your replies to my earlier post. I am in dispute with Blackhorse Finance over my current loan agreement and requesting the refund of certain charges applied to the account.

 

In response to my complaint I have been supplied with statements of account and a copy of the loan agreement. This shows the amount of the loan, the duration of the agreement, total charge for credit and monthly interest rate. It also shows my signature but at the bottom of the agreement there are two boxes one for their signature and the other for the date of the agreement. These have been left blank. At the very bottom it shows page 1 of 2 and Black Horses Copy.

 

Because of the ongoing dispute I stopped making my monthly paments until the dispute was resolved only for Black Horse to default me. Again I complained that they could not do this, however they were quite adamant that they could and that they could continue to regester adverse information to the CRA as long as my account was in arrears and regardless of any dispute that was still current.

 

I contacted the Information Commissioners Office who advised that Black Horse were within their rights to issue a default and that they had a duty to report any missed payments to the CRA. They also advised that Black Horse were under no obligation to supply me with a default notice and were at liberty to register the default without my knowledge.

 

So, is my loan agreement enforceable without any company signature or date and is it correct what the Information Commissioners Office say in what Black Horse are allowed to do with my data.

 

Cheers

 

Mutt

HI

 

Did the iCO give this information in writing. I would be interested to see a copy.

The information about not having to give a default notice is just plain incorrect.THe whole idea of a default notice is to give the creditor chance to remedythe situation before the default is actioned. This is clearly stated in the CCA. As Shane says lets ahave a look at the agreement.

I think in many cases, and i don't know if this is one ,it maybe that it was not made clear that they had either defaulted on the account (by not complying with the section 77 request) or that the agreement was unenforceable.

In either of these cases they could not lawfully have taken enforcement action.

I have read on here many times that creditors are not allowed to pursue a debt whilst in disupute,(without the above qualification)i must admit to being a little unsure about this i am not aware of an legislatsure that says this please correct me if i am mistaken. I know that debts that are genuinely in dispute are disqualified from the pursuance of those debts by the OFT DCA Guidlines.But that is a different scenario.

 

Best regrds

Peter

[un1boy]

HI

 

Did the Information Commissioners Office give this information in writing. I would be interested to see a copy.

The information about not having to give a default notice is just plain incorrect.THe whole idea of a default notice is to give the creditor chance to remedythe situation before the default is actioned. This is clearly stated in the CCA. As Shane says lets ahave a look at the agreement.

I think in many cases, and i don't know if this is one ,it maybe that it was not made clear that they had either defaulted on the account (by not complying with the section 77 request) or that the agreement was unenforceable.

In either of these cases they could not lawfully have taken enforcement action.

I have read on here many times that creditors are not allowed to pursue a debt whilst in disupute,(without the above qualification)i must admit to being a little unsure about this i am not aware of an legislatsure that says this please correct me if i am mistaken. I know that debts that are genuinely in dispute are disqualified from the pursuance of those debts by the OFT DCA Guidlines.But that is a different scenario.

 

Best regrds

Peter

 

Default notice have to be supplied and their format is stated in section 88 ~(i think) of the act, so the ICO are wrong!

[un1boy]

oh my god, next have written to my sister to tell her that is she doesn't pay £500-odd in the next 10 days they will send the account to a debt collector. All this, and they have admitted the det is unenforcable.

 

Sheesh.......are they naturally this stupid, or do they practise?

[shane5408]

HI

I have read on here many times that creditors are not allowed to pursue a debt whilst in disupute,(without the above qualification)i must admit to being a little unsure about this i am not aware of an legislatsure that says this please correct me if i am mistaken. I know that debts that are genuinely in dispute are disqualified from the pursuance of those debts by the OFT DCA Guidlines.But that is a different scenario.

 

Best regrds

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

This is taken from the banking code:

 

Credit reference agencies

 

13.6 We may give information to credit reference agencies about the personal debts you owe us if:

 

you have fallen behind with your payments;

the amount owed is not in dispute; and

you have not made proposals we are satisfied with for repaying your debt, following our formal demand.

 

13.7 In these cases, we will give you at least 28 days notice that we plan to give information about the debts you owe us to credit reference agencies. At the same time, we will explain to you the role of credit reference agencies and the effect the information they provide can have on your ability to get credit.

 

Sections 13.6 and 13.7 refer to the disclosure of default information, and when it can be relayed to credit reference agencies. For some time it has been common practice for banks and building societies to obtain the customers consent to such disclosures before borrowing is taken out, usually by way of a declaration on an application form.

Whether or not notice was given by the subscriber and consent was obtained from the customer at the time the account was opened, disclosure of default information can be made. But, in all cases, the customer must be given further notice of the intention to disclose the information at least 28 days before the disclosure is made, for example, when a notice of default or formal demand is given. At the same time, customers must be given an explanation about how default information registered against them may affect their ability to obtain credit in the future. This notice will mean that customers have 28 days to try to repay or come to some arrangement with the subscriber before default information is passed to the credit reference agencies.

 

I would also argue that serving a default or enacting any type of enforcement while an account is in dispute would also contravene the data protection act.

 

Schedule I

 

Part I

The principles

1. Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully and, in particular, shall not be processed unless—

(a)at least one of the conditions in Schedule 2 is met,

 

the act does not describe lawfulness however the Information Commissioners Office legal guidance notes on the data protection act says:

 

3.1.4 Lawfulness

The Act does not provide any guidance on the meaning of "lawful". The natural meaning of unlawful has been broadly described by the Courts as "something which is contrary to some law or enactment or is done without lawful justification or excuse". (R v R [1991] 4All ER 481). The term applies equally to the public and private sector and to breaches of both statute and common law, whether criminal or civil. An example of information unlawfully obtained might be information, which is obtained as a result of a breach of confidence or in breach of an enforceable contractual agreement. Since 2 October 2000 it applies to a breach of the Human Rights Act 1998 by a data controller bound by that Act.

 

By their own admission then for the processing of data to be lawful and abide by schedule I (1) it cannot, by virtue of processing the data breach any laws or enactments. However, as stated above to do so while the account is in dispute is in breach of the banking code sec. 13.6 -13.7

 

 

Schedule 2 of data protection act states:

 

1. The data subject has given his consent to the processing.

if the agreement is unenforcable by virtue of lacking prescribed term(s) contract is deemed void hence debtor never gave consent to creditor to process his data

 

2. The processing is necessary-

(a) for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

no contract exists between debtor and creditor as deemed void above

 

 

(b) for the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering into a contract.

debtor certainly has no plans to enter into a contract in the immeditate future so does not apply

 

3. The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than an obligation imposed by contract.

this refers to passing the data to official organisations such as government agencies, police, health organisations etc, since CRA's are not governement the exemption does not apply here either

 

 

4. The processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject

As per Information Commissioners Office's legal guidance on the data protection act this refers to matters that may affect the debtor in life or death situations, ie the need to disclose information to emergency services etc so again, exemption does not apply here.

 

In regards to Default notices and procedures under the CCA:

 

Contents and effect of default notice

88.— (1) The default notice must be in the prescribed form and specify—

(a)the nature of the alleged breach;

(b)if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date before which that action is to be taken;

©if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach, and the date before which it is to be paid.

(2) A date specified under subsection (1) must not be less than seven days after the date of service of the default notice, and the creditor or owner shall not take action such as is mentioned in section 87(1) before the date so specified or (if no requirement is made under subsection (1)) before those seven days have elapsed.

 

under the CCA a minimum period of 7 days notice must be given to the debtor that a default notice is being served however as under the banking code the period stipulated is 28 days most creditors use the latter period.

 

regards,

shane

 

[MUTT]

Hi peter & shane,

 

Thanks for the replies. The ICO did not give the info in writing wish they had.

 

I contacted them to see how my complaint against Black Horse was progressing and in the conversation I mentioned the default issue and the recording of adverse info onto my credit file which I thought Black Horse were not allowed to do when the account is in dispute.

 

The person I spoke to advised that she could not give accurate advice on this matter and that someone would call me the following day to discuss it further.

 

Sure enough the following day I received a call from ICO. I explained what Black Horse had done and were continuing to do regarding sending adverse credit info to the CRA. This I said was, in my opinion, a blatant breach of the DPA. I was advised that there was no breach and that Black Horse were quite entitled to register the default without informing me first and that they were not obliged to provide me of a copy of the default notice. She also said that Black Horse had a duty to send info to the CRA whether or not there was an ongoing dispute with the account as long as the account remained in arrears. Which it is at present (stopped paying my monthly amount to try and force the issue).

 

The conversation became rather heated and I was continually told that I was entitled to my my opinion and it was left at that.

 

I think I will now contact the ICO on Monday to pursue the matter.

 

I will send you a copy of my current agreement as soon as I get my scanner sorted.

 

Regards for now

 

Mutt

[shane5408]

oh my god, next have written to my sister to tell her that is she doesn't pay £500-odd in the next 10 days they will send the account to a debt collector. All this, and they have admitted the det is unenforcable.

 

Sheesh.......are they naturally this stupid, or do they practise?

 

typical bully tactics, they know they don't have a leg to stand on so are trying to weasel as much cash as they can out of your sister ASAP before they have to, how do they put it make the 'commercial decision not to pursue the debt' due to its unenforcability!

[shane5408]

Hi peter & shane,

 

Thanks for the replies. The Information Commissioners Office did not give the info in writing wish they had.

 

I contacted them to see how my complaint against Black Horse was progressing and in the conversation I mentioned the default issue and the recording of adverse info onto my credit file which I thought Black Horse were not allowed to do when the account is in dispute.

 

The person I spoke to advised that she could not give accurate advice on this matter and that someone would call me the following day to discuss it further.

 

Sure enough the following day I received a call from Information Commissioners Office. I explained what Black Horse had done and were continuing to do regarding sending adverse credit info to the CRA. This I said was, in my opinion, a blatant breach of the Data Protection Act. I was advised that there was no breach and that Black Horse were quite entitled to register the default without informing me first and that they were not obliged to provide me of a copy of the default notice. She also said that Black Horse had a duty to send info to the CRA whether or not there was an ongoing dispute with the account as long as the account remained in arrears. Which it is at present (stopped paying my monthly amount to try and force the issue).

 

The conversation became rather heated and I was continually told that I was entitled to my my opinion and it was left at that.

 

I think I will now contact the Information Commissioners Office on Monday to pursue the matter.

 

I will send you a copy of my current agreement as soon as I get my scanner sorted.

 

Regards for now

 

Mutt

 

Hi Mutt,

 

This just goes to highlight yet again the lack of knowledge ICO case officers have in relation to the Consumer Credit Act. They pride themselves on all things to do with the data protection act, yet even here they are frequently mistaken.

 

I suggest getting in contact with trading standards and the OFT if you haven't done so already, they are in a better situation to help with regards to default and enforcment while account is in dispute. It's also good form as if you need to take this to court later on you will have to show the judge you have exhausted every other means of settling this out of court and court action is your last option.

 

regards,

shane

[patrickq1]

i sugest also we report The Information Commissioners Office that they are also in breach of their terms and conditions for failing to act upon false /and mis leading information with regards to bank charges and data protection issues ,report them to the OFT/MP s/PRIME MINISTER/and trading standards

[patrickq1]

beat that shane lol

[shane5408]

i sugest also we report The Information Commissioners Office that they are also in breach of their terms and conditions for failing to act upon false /and mis leading information with regards to bank charges and data protection issues ,report them to the OFT/MP s/PRIME MINISTER/and trading standards

 

lol great mind think alike then! I am working on POC's and strategy at the moment with regard to instigating legal action against the ICO for failing to uphold their duty to police breaches in the data protection act, breaching their t*c's and various other issues, namely their utter lack of knowledge on the matter, and inability to provide a credible go between for consumers without having to resort to court proceedings.

 

However, first i have to be able to show evidence of this, so am waiting on a few responses and complaints i will send to them in relation to penalty charges, data protection act breaches etc They're gonna hang themselves if their responses are inadequate as it will be those very responses i use to proof their inadequacies!

 

regards,

shane

[patrickq1]

trouble is we need to get their comments in writing i am not sure wether they will commit those comments to paper i may be wrong but it is time this orginisation was brought to book and made to adhere to the law excactly as it is read and written,for the ordinary person as he/she understands it to be you cannot procces data without it being questioned and verified in a legal sense

[shane5408]

trouble is we need to get their comments in writing i am not sure wether they will commit those comments to paper i may be wrong but it is time this orginisation was brought to book and made to adhere to the law excactly as it is read and written,for the ordinary person as he/she understands it to be you cannot procces data without it being questioned and verified in a legal sense

 

for that very reason i am only going to communicate with them in writing,

[patrickq1]

is it hedley and byrne or oscar chess ltd v williams negligent mis representation/or negligent mis representation injurious falsehood dutton vbognor regis careless auditing their is a wealth of options open

[patrickq1]

think i just ate the law book then lol

[Peterbard]

Hi Peter,

 

This is taken from the banking code:

 

Credit reference agencies

 

13.6 We may give information to credit reference agencies about the personal debts you owe us if:

 

you have fallen behind with your payments;

the amount owed is not in dispute; and

you have not made proposals we are satisfied with for repaying your debt, following our formal demand.

 

13.7 In these cases, we will give you at least 28 days notice that we plan to give information about the debts you owe us to credit reference agencies. At the same time, we will explain to you the role of credit reference agencies and the effect the information they provide can have on your ability to get credit.

 

Sections 13.6 and 13.7 refer to the disclosure of default information, and when it can be relayed to credit reference agencies. For some time it has been common practice for banks and building societies to obtain the customers consent to such disclosures before borrowing is taken out, usually by way of a declaration on an application form.

Whether or not notice was given by the subscriber and consent was obtained from the customer at the time the account was opened, disclosure of default information can be made. But, in all cases, the customer must be given further notice of the intention to disclose the information at least 28 days before the disclosure is made, for example, when a notice of default or formal demand is given. At the same time, customers must be given an explanation about how default information registered against them may affect their ability to obtain credit in the future. This notice will mean that customers have 28 days to try to repay or come to some arrangement with the subscriber before default information is passed to the credit reference agencies.

 

I would also argue that serving a default or enacting any type of enforcement while an account is in dispute would also contravene the data protection act.

 

Schedule I

 

Part I

The principles

1. Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully and, in particular, shall not be processed unless—

(a)at least one of the conditions in Schedule 2 is met,

 

the act does not describe lawfulness however the Information Commissioners Office legal guidance notes on the data protection act says:

 

3.1.4 Lawfulness

The Act does not provide any guidance on the meaning of "lawful". The natural meaning of unlawful has been broadly described by the Courts as "something which is contrary to some law or enactment or is done without lawful justification or excuse". (R v R [1991] 4All ER 481). The term applies equally to the public and private sector and to breaches of both statute and common law, whether criminal or civil. An example of information unlawfully obtained might be information, which is obtained as a result of a breach of confidence or in breach of an enforceable contractual agreement. Since 2 October 2000 it applies to a breach of the Human Rights Act 1998 by a data controller bound by that Act.

 

By their own admission then for the processing of data to be lawful and abide by schedule I (1) it cannot, by virtue of processing the data breach any laws or enactments. However, as stated above to do so while the account is in dispute is in breach of the banking code sec. 13.6 -13.7

 

 

Schedule 2 of data protection act states:

 

1. The data subject has given his consent to the processing.

if the agreement is unenforcable by virtue of lacking prescribed term(s) contract is deemed void hence debtor never gave consent to creditor to process his data

 

2. The processing is necessary-

(a) for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

no contract exists between debtor and creditor as deemed void above

 

 

(b) for the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering into a contract.

debtor certainly has no plans to enter into a contract in the immeditate future so does not apply

 

3. The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than an obligation imposed by contract.

this refers to passing the data to official organisations such as government agencies, police, health organisations etc, since CRA's are not governement the exemption does not apply here either

 

 

4. The processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject

As per Information Commissioners Office's legal guidance on the data protection act this refers to matters that may affect the debtor in life or death situations, ie the need to disclose information to emergency services etc so again, exemption does not apply here.

 

In regards to Default notices and procedures under the CCA:

 

Contents and effect of default notice

88.— (1) The default notice must be in the prescribed form and specify—

(a)the nature of the alleged breach;

(b)if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date before which that action is to be taken;

©if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach, and the date before which it is to be paid.

(2) A date specified under subsection (1) must not be less than seven days after the date of service of the default notice, and the creditor or owner shall not take action such as is mentioned in section 87(1) before the date so specified or (if no requirement is made under subsection (1)) before those seven days have elapsed.

 

under the CCA a minimum period of 7 days notice must be given to the debtor that a default notice is being served however as under the banking code the period stipulated is 28 days most creditors use the latter period.

 

regards,

shane

 

THanks Shane a lot of hard work there and some stuff i wasn't aware of

There is however as far is i can see still no lawful reason they cannot process data beause the debtors says the agreement is in dispute.

If there is an official dispute proceedure underway with one of the agencies that handle these things i can see a the account being frozen by a court order or if the agreement was infact unenforceable or in default through creditor none compliance but we don't know that do we?

It would be easy for the debtor to contact the creditor when he just didnt want to pay and say i am not paying you the account is in dispute,there has to be a lawful reason for the dispute otherwise regretfully i think the bank are legally within their rights to record missed paymnents.

As for the cca default notice (The period is 14 days now by the way)

none of the actions threatened by none compliance include data sharing i wouldnt see how the issuance of the default notice undert the cca would be relavant.

The issuance of a default notice is a result of being in default the default may still exist withou the notice being issued.

Best regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

Hi Again

I am not sayng that the agreement is enforceable what i am saying is the creditor has to be made aware that it is unenforceable before you stop payment and you have to prove they have.

Now from waht has been said about signatures it may well be, but let us not forget this is a copy document and the question is will the signature still not appear on the orriginal when it gets to court.

This to be possible if you look again at the section 2 of the regs it does not say that on an uncancellable agreement the creditor has to date his signature it says that a date for execution must be included,this could be anywhere on the document and even put there by the debtor if he was the last to sign and therefore executed it.

 

Regards

Peter

[shane5408]

hiya,

 

With regards to the default under the CCA i'm referring to a default notice being made against the debtor and recorded on his credit file by credit reference agencies, not being in default as in when a credior fails to respond to a cca request in the time limit.

 

what i was trying to say was that under the Consumer Credit Act S88 states that the creditor must give the debtor notice that a default will be served against him and a fixed amount of time in which should he take certain actions is able to avoid the default being recorded. The creditor cannot just register the default instantly without first informing the debtor. (as the Information Commissioners Office seeems to believe!)

 

In regards to the creditor being allowed to process debtors data while account is in dispute thogh there is no law (that i'm aware of) that categorically states they cannot, the banking code 13.6 does say that creditors will only pass info to cra's if the amount owed is not in dispute. As you say though effectively this means anyone can just dispute the account should they feel they need a bit of a payment rest! The key thing here would be establishing a valid reason to dispute the account, such as improper execution or unenforcability, etc and involving a third party like trading standards to ensure the creditor does not just disregard the banking code and register the default anyway.

 

 

Until we see a true copy of the agreement, as you say we cannot know if it is enforcable or not, i also find is surprising it may be a non cancellable agreement, am i right in thinking that on the majority of loans/cred cards cancellation rights are given (cooling off period) and this then renders the agreement cancellable?

 

regards,

shane

[patrickq1]

there has to be a lawful reason for the dispute otherwise regretfully i think the bank are legally within their rights to record missed paymnents.i agree with all of what your saying peter but one thing that sticks out is if you do happen to have a mis hap with your finances a decent person or bank would or should have or make the time to call you personally and ask is their any problems or do you need help it does not take much to do this its a matter of courtesy and good manners and gives re assurance to the person who has defaulted or has run into difficulties (not forgetting i was defaulted twice by morgan stanley ,whilst they where in receipt of payment through my PPI insurance) or a bank stops a payment to another bank or account or finance co..but to just send out defaults is both vexhatios and in most circumstances due to mis representation of unlawful bank charges ..so either the law is precise and the bank face imediate prosecution for the mis representation this then forces the banks to have a duty of care in administering your account fairly,the reason for defaults going through so freely is that they have not been entirely honest with their information to the goverment watchdogs same applies to the DCA companies...but with DCA we know its mostly vexhasious and should now be stopped completely also the credit reference agencies should be properly scrutinised and forced to comply with terms of reasonabless with regards to entering defaults some one must contact the person being defaulted and given the chance to make good missed debt payments .but up to now the posts on this subject are really getting more in depth and it is becoming clearer that the statutory duties of the oft and all other are lacking in definitive punishment against this databeing processed .our lives are being trespassed and harmed/abused to often without any one standing upto them...it is also a perversion of the justice system to allow it to continue

get of my soapbox now keep up the fantastic work peter and shane

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

an agreement can be canelled if their is a breach but it must be a serious breach but even a breach in an agreement must/or can be challenged

[patrickq1]

1. The data subject has given his consent to the processing.*

if the agreement is unenforcable by virtue of lacking prescribed

term(s) contract is deemed void hence debtor never gave consent to creditor

to process his data this statement is in most credit agreements is in itself is partly an unfair contract/agreement since you have not had any say because it is an implied part of the agreement and not a negotiated part of any agreement.yes i do not have a problem with this provided it is only that the data can be passed to the COURTS/POLICE/AND INLAND REVENUE.......this is also partly the TRADING STANDARDS remit to remove this clause as being an unfair term within the contract...i sent you data from the human rights charter peter did you look at that