Cap1 & CCA return

[Fullyskinted]

Hi UN1BOY

 

who do I write to, Arrow or the Solicitors, sorry for being a bit thick

 

patch

 

I had a similar thing with MBNA (I think, could have been RBS). I wrote to the creditor highlightling the continued breach of the CCA request. I also wrote to the DCA (in my case) who was askign for the arrears and copied it in the letter to the creditor.

 

I also had calls from DCAs and when I explained that the acct was in dispute they were very understanding and did not persue me any further. THey actually wished me luck!

[angry cat]

Hi Guy's-

sorry to go back to Egg but I'm having probs!

 

Baisically, I'm in dispute about their mis-sold ppi. However, I was being chased by the darlings at DLC (Direct Legal & Collections)

I fired a shot across DLC's boughs and then they put the account on hold.

 

Yesterday, up pops another DCA...ARC (Europe) Ltd, threatening me that unless I pay up, they will instruct their solicitors to issue proceedings - Nice One Egg!

 

Anyhow, I have drafted out the following letter, hopefully someone could proof read it for me and/or correct the letter, which becomes a little complicated at the end, because I have not yet advised Egg that they are in default of s78 CCA, due to Egg not supplying me with the relevant T&C's that should have been sent to me along with the agreement...the T&C's form part of the Egg agreement.

 

The letter is as follows:-

 

"ARC (Europe) Ltd

Kent House

Churchfield Road

Walton-on-Thames

Surrey

KT12 2TU

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

 

COMPLAINT

 

I am in receipt of your correspondence dated 15 June 2007 which threatens:-

“We wish to make it quite clear that unless a substantial payment is made to us within the next ten days, along with a firm offer to clear the rest of the overdue balance, we will pass your account to our Solicitors, with instructions to issue proceedings against you in the County Court”.

Firstly, I hereby inform you that this account is subject to a dispute involving litigation.

 

Secondly, if you are acting as an agent for Egg Banking plc I would suggest that you refrain from pursuing this as to do so in these conditions could be classed as unlawful. I have already warned Direct Legal & Collections, who were instructed by Egg Banking plc, to desist from harassing me. Direct Legal & Collections wrote to me 4 May 2007 stating “I can confirm following receiving your letter of the 3rd May 2007 your account has been placed on hold”. Take notice, that I have NOT been informed by either Egg or DLC that the account has been passed to you ARC (Europe) Ltd – Credit Management. I, take an extremely dim view, of your firm’s psychological harassment collection methods! I feel sure that you must be aware of the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Unfair Debt Collection Practices, July 2003. However, for the avoidance of doubt I will remind you.

 

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

• Using more than one debt collection business at the same time resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties.

 

• Not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties.

 

• Not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a different debt collector.

 

• Pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so.

 

• Making threatening statements or gestures or taking actions which suggest harm to debtors.

 

• Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

• Disclosing or threatening to disclose debt details to third parties unless legally entitled to do so.

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

 

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

 

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

• Passing on debtors details to debt management companies without the debtors’ informed consent.

 

• Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed.

 

• Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

 

Egg Banking plc and their solicitor; Addleshaw Goddard LLP are aware of my dispute. Therefore, I am shocked that they may have authorised your action.

 

Any further harassment by letter will be dealt with by the Harassment Act 1997 (see below)

 

“Protection from Harassment Act 1997” The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 introduces four new criminal offences.

 

• Harassment (section 2): summary only, six months imprisonment and/or a level 5 fine.

 

• Section 7 defines a course of conduct as involving conduct on at least two occasions. Harassment is not defined, but includes causing alarm or distress and conduct is defined as including speech.

 

• Section 7(3)A provided that Conduct by one person shall also be taken to be conduct by another if that other has aided, abetted, counseled or procured the conduct. The Knowledge and purpose of the person who aids, abets, counsels or procures conduct are what was contemplated or reasonably foreseeable at the time of aiding, abetting, counseling or procuring and not when the conduct occurs.

 

Lastly, I would inform you that Egg Banking plc., are in Default under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 – failure to produce agreement that conforms with section 65 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127 (3) of the same Act.

 

A formal complaint has been made to the Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards".

 

What do you think and should I expand upon the CCA issue, or because it is a DCA leave it at that?

 

Can I send Egg a formal S78 Default notice based on the fact that they have failed to supply me with the original T&C's (well egg didn't send me any T&C's with my s78 request) that would show the default charges?

 

Love AC

 

ps I have already informed egg that have not complied with my s78 cca request but I have not mentioned the missing original terms & conditions.

[Josie8]

Thanks for confirming that Josie.

 

What i am now trying to establish is that:

 

1. The pages of the agreement can't be linked so does that mean the it is completely unenforcable as the prescribed terms aren't on the sig doc.

 

2. The fact they haven't supplied the original terms etc means that they can't just produce them now and say they aren't in default, by virtue of:

 

 

Which would mean that the court could only take a view on what they have supplied me, not what they then supply? (If that makes sense?)

 

The prescribed terms HAVE to be on the signature document prior to the signature. If not then it is unenforceable. To be on another document whether linked or not does not alter the position

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Hi Everyone

 

Sorry to go off on another tangent but I've been in correspondence with NatWest for quite an extended period about a loan that my sister and I took out that related to a business we were running in 2000/01. They kept staving off my original request for agreements under the CCA with apologiesfor not being able to locate them etc. They are now saying that as the loan was to our limited company and that we signed personal guarantees it is not regulated by the CCA.

 

They have not supplied copies of the personal guarantees (I am going to request them) and I wondered if what they are saying is correct or if, as they are now claiming the money as if it were a personal loan (in other words the business is now irrelevant as they obviously can't claim from a limited company that has folded), whether it is in fact regulated by the CCA.

 

Incidentally they took no action on this loan for over three years and we assumed it had died with the company.

 

This is pretty technical I know, but I wondered if anyone had experienced a similar situation or at least some knowledge of whether NatWest is correct in its claim.

 

Hope you can help.

 

Although I am surprised that they didn't, I suspect an oversight on their part, but if neither of you give a personal guarantee then they became creditors of the business not you & any debt incurred by the company is lost. That's why it's called 'limited company' The limited should read 'limited as to liability'

[patch666]

Well you write to the debt collector or orginal creditor for the cca request.

 

but as the solicitors have been threatening u with legal action, i would write to them to explain the situation.

 

 

this is the letter I am going to send. Any comments?????

 

CREDIT & BUSINESS SERVICES LTD COPES SOLICITORS.

CBS HOUSE Unit F,The Courtyard

ALBAN PARK ALBAN PARK

ST ALBANS ST. ALBANS

HERTFORDSHIRE AL4 0LA HERTFORDSHIRE AL4 0LA

CBS ref:

Dear Sir/madam,

I have not been provided with a copy of the true signed executed Agreement containing all the prescribed items as requested by me under Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, despite my properly formatted and paid for request dated 30th May 2007 which was received by CBS Transcom on 1st June 2007.

 

I have made a record of the fact that CBS Transcom has totally ignored my above mentioned correspondence dated 30th May 2007 which is in breach of both the FSA and Banking Code guidelines.

 

TAKE NOTICE that CBS Transcom are now in DEFAULT of Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, and that CBS Transcom are not entitled to enforce the alleged Agreement until it is produced and that the account is now in dispute.

 

Any legal action that you are considering taking against me will be defended by producing a copy of my request along with recorded delivery labels etc.....

Furthermore, the only correspondence I have received regarding this alleged debt has been from your Solicitors “Copes” (dated 18th June, received 20th June 2007).

Please also take note that I have certainly NOT given and DO NOT intend to give my consent for your company to process or share my personal data, which includes the sharing of such data with “Copes” Solicitors from whom I received a letter regarding this alleged debt, I don't appreciate aggressive, threatening bullying letters being sent and if I receive anymore before my CCA request has been satisfied I will report the solicitors to the law society!

Please also note that any sharing or processing of data without the authority of the data subject contravenes the Data Protection Act and I hereby request therefore that both you and “Copes” Solicitors immediately cease and desist from such processing (in any form and for any purpose) of my personal data, and to remove any Defaults or negative entries on my Credit file.

I expect written confirmation that the necessary action has been taken to comply with this request within 7 days of receipt of this letter, failing which I shall report your company to the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading and The Information Commissioners Office.

 

Regards,

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

this is the letter I am going to send. Any comments?????

 

 

CREDIT & BUSINESS SERVICES LTD & COPES SOLICITORS.

CBS HOUSE Unit F,The Courtyard

ALBAN PARK ALBAN PARK

ST ALBANS ST. ALBANS

HERTFORDSHIRE AL4 0LA HERTFORDSHIRE AL4 0LA

 

CBS ref:

 

Dear Sir/madam,

 

I have not been provided with a copy of the true signed executed Agreement containing all the prescribed items as requested by me under Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, despite my properly formatted and paid for request dated 30th May 2007 which was received by CBS Transcom on 1st June 2007. (copy enclosed)

 

I have made a record (deleted) that CBS Transcom has totally ignored my (deleted repeating yourself) correspondence (deleted again repeating yourself) which is as well as being in breach of statute also in breach of both the FSA and Banking Code guidelines.

 

TAKE NOTICE that CBS Transcom are now in DEFAULT of Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, and that CBS Transcom are not entitled to enforce the alleged Agreement until it is produced and that the account is now in dispute.

Furthermore I would respectfully remind you that failure to produce a properly executed signed agreement is a complete defence against enforcement

 

Therefore any legal action that you are considering taking against me will be defended by me vigoriously. (deleted no need to refer to your cca)

Furthermore, the only correspondence I have received regarding this alleged debt has been from your Solicitors “Copes” (dated 18th June, received 20th June 2007).

 

Please also take note that I have certainly NOT given and DO NOT intend to give my consent for your company to process or share my personal data, which includes the sharing of such data with “Copes” Solicitors from whom I received a letter regarding this alleged debt, I don't appreciate aggressive, threatening bullying letters being sent and if I receive anymore before my CCA request has been satisfied I will report the solicitors to the law society!

 

Please also note that any sharing or processing of data without the authority of the data subject contravenes the Data Protection Act and I hereby request therefore that both you and “Copes” Solicitors immediately cease and desist from such processing (in any form and for any purpose) of my personal data, and to remove any Defaults or negative entries on my Credit file.

 

I expect written confirmation that the necessary action has been taken to comply with this request within 7 days of receipt of this letter, failing which I shall report your company to the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading and The Information Commissioners Office.

 

 

Regards,

 

See in red above

[un1boy]

yep, I agree with pliny!!

[un1boy]

[deleted]

[noomill060]

I wouldnt put this in:

 

"Trading Standards are questioning a major UK bank under caution with a view to bringing a criminal prosecution against them;"

You dont KNOW this for a fact, you are only repeating what I have told you about my phone call to TS. For all you know, I could be making this up.

Its really not a good idea to base statements such as this on the say so of anonymous well meaning strangers.

When I get hard copy from TS about my case I will put it up here and let you make of it what you will.

[Fullyskinted]

Trading Stds told me yesterday that they dont get involved in Credit Cards... They advised liaising direct with the FOS

[un1boy]

I wouldnt put this in:

 

"Trading Standards are questioning a major UK bank under caution with a view to bringing a criminal prosecution against them;"

 

You dont KNOW this for a fact, you are only repeating what I have told you about my phone call to TS. For all you know, I could be making this up.

 

Its really not a good idea to base statements such as this on the say so of anonymous well meaning strangers.

 

When I get hard copy from TS about my case I will put it up here and let you make of it what you will.

 

err, whoops - I didn't mean to put that in. sorry.

[un1boy]

Trading Stds told me yesterday that they dont get involved in Credit Cards... They advised liaising direct with the FOS

 

That's absolutely wrong - they "police" the CCA, so should get involved with any actions that have breached the requirements of the Act.

[patch666]

yep, I agree with pliny!!

 

 

 

Hi all, is this any better???

 

 

Dear Sir/madam,

I have not been provided with a copy of the true signed executed Agreement containing all the prescribed items as requested by me under Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, despite my properly formatted and paid for request dated 30th May 2007 which was received by CBS Transcom on 1st June 2007. (Copy enclosed) which as well as being in breach of statute is also in breach of both the FSA and Banking Code guidelines.

 

TAKE NOTICE that CBS Transcom are now in DEFAULT of Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, and that CBS Transcom are not entitled to enforce the alleged Agreement until it is produced and that the account is now in dispute.

Furthermore I would respectfully remind you that failure to produce a properly executed signed agreement is a complete defence against enforcement

 

Therefore any legal action that you are considering taking against me will be defended vigorously.

Furthermore, the only correspondence I have received regarding this alleged debt has been from your Solicitors “Copes” (dated 18th June, received 20th June 2007).

Please also take note that I have certainly NOT given and DO NOT intend to give my consent for your company to process or share my personal data, which includes the sharing of such data with “Copes” Solicitors from whom I received a letter regarding this alleged debt, I don't appreciate aggressive, threatening bullying letters being sent and if I receive anymore before my CCA request has been satisfied I will report the solicitors to the law society!

Please also note that any sharing or processing of data without the authority of the data subject contravenes the Data Protection Act and I hereby request therefore that both you and “Copes” Solicitors immediately cease and desist from such processing (in any form and for any purpose) of my personal data, and to remove any Defaults or negative entries on my Credit file.

I expect written confirmation that the necessary action has been taken to comply with this request within 7 days of receipt of this letter, failing which I shall report your company to the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading and The Information Commissioners Office.

 

Regards,

[un1boy]

I wouldnt put this in:

 

"Trading Standards are questioning a major UK bank under caution with a view to bringing a criminal prosecution against them;"

 

You dont KNOW this for a fact, you are only repeating what I have told you about my phone call to TS. For all you know, I could be making this up.

 

Its really not a good idea to base statements such as this on the say so of anonymous well meaning strangers.

 

When I get hard copy from TS about my case I will put it up here and let you make of it what you will.

 

Apart from that though, it's ok?

[un1boy]

Hi all, is this any better???

 

 

Dear Sir/madam,

 

I have not been provided with a copy of the true signed executed Agreement containing all the prescribed items as requested by me under Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, despite my properly formatted and paid for request dated 30th May 2007 which was received by CBS Transcom on 1st June 2007. (Copy enclosed) which as well as being in breach of statute is also in breach of both the FSA and Banking Code guidelines.

 

TAKE NOTICE that CBS Transcom are now in DEFAULT of Section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, and that CBS Transcom are not entitled to enforce the alleged Agreement until it is produced and that the account is now in dispute.

 

Furthermore I would respectfully remind you that failure to produce a properly executed signed agreement is a complete defence against enforcement

 

Therefore any legal action that you are considering taking against me will be defended vigorously.

 

Furthermore, the only correspondence I have received regarding this alleged debt has been from your Solicitors “Copes” (dated 18th June, received 20th June 2007).

 

Please also take note that I have certainly NOT given and DO NOT intend to give my consent for your company to process or share my personal data, which includes the sharing of such data with “Copes” Solicitors from whom I received a letter regarding this alleged debt, I don't appreciate aggressive, threatening bullying letters being sent and if I receive anymore before my CCA request has been satisfied I will report the solicitors to the law society!

 

Please also note that any sharing or processing of data without the authority of the data subject contravenes the Data Protection Act and I hereby request therefore that both you and “Copes” Solicitors immediately cease and desist from such processing (in any form and for any purpose) of my personal data, and to remove any Defaults or negative entries on my Credit file.

 

I expect written confirmation that the necessary action has been taken to comply with this request within 7 days of receipt of this letter, failing which I shall report your company to the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading and The Information Commissioners Office.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

It's ok, but cease and desist mean the same thinng mate!!

[noomill060]

Uniboy- go get 'em!

[redsonja]

Hi folks,

 

Just wondered if anyone had any opinions on the following:

 

CCA request sent to Morgan Stanley, eventually they sent me T&C's with a varied CCA from 2006 (even though I opened the card in 2002).

 

I wrote to them saying they havent fulfilled their obligation but have now had the following response:

 

They have sent me a "true copy" and regulation 7 allows them to provide me with a "true copy" which sets out the terms and conditions current at the time of the provision.

 

As the copy sent to me represents the present terms of my agreement, they have provided me with a copy of the executed agreement as prescribed by sect 78 of the Act.

 

I have been looking at the regulations but it is not clear to me about the situation of variations.

 

Does anyone know if they are right? Im sure I never signed anything when I opened the account so are they just trying to cover their backsides cos they cant supply the original?

 

I want to get a reply off to them but obviously need to know what they should provide when there have been variations.

 

Any advice greatly received.

[ncf355]

That's absolutely wrong - they "police" the CCA, so should get involved with any actions that have breached the requirements of the Act.

 

Funny that, they told me the same - just them trying to get out of their reponsibility

 

They ARE required by law to enforce the CCA 1974

 

Section 161 refers to the 'local weights and measures authority' being responsible to enforce - this is TS

[so*fed*up]

Would you mind taking a look at my thread please

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/97654-reply-cca-request-help.html

 

All comments much appreciated

[redsonja]

Anyone any views on post 7572?

[monopoly23]

My friend has had a settlement offer from a car company she took out insurance with.

She has already settled the car agreement, but now, they are asking her to pay £500 by today,(which she doesn't have) to settle the insurance side of the agreement, or else the full balance owed will become immediately due and payable.

She has it in writing that they accepted her offer to pay £75 a month, which she has been doing and hasn't missed a payment, so how can they ask for the total balance if she doesn't accept their offer?

[joesoap]

Quick question for those in the know. Is a business loan treated in the same way as a credit card or personal loan for CCA purposes? Is the CCA request directed to the originator (HSBC) or the collector (DG Solicitor/MCS or whatever they are called)?

[un1boy]

Hi folks,

 

Just wondered if anyone had any opinions on the following:

 

CCA request sent to Morgan Stanley, eventually they sent me T&C's with a varied CCA from 2006 (even though I opened the card in 2002).

 

I wrote to them saying they havent fulfilled their obligation but have now had the following response:

 

They have sent me a "true copy" and regulation 7 allows them to provide me with a "true copy" which sets out the terms and conditions current at the time of the provision.

 

As the copy sent to me represents the present terms of my agreement, they have provided me with a copy of the executed agreement as prescribed by sect 78 of the Act.

 

I have been looking at the regulations but it is not clear to me about the situation of variations.

 

Does anyone know if they are right? Im sure I never signed anything when I opened the account so are they just trying to cover their backsides cos they cant supply the original?

 

I want to get a reply off to them but obviously need to know what they should provide when there have been variations.

 

Any advice greatly received.

 

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

 

I would have thought that whatever docs they sent you first are the only relevant ones as one of the secs states that any statement made by a creditor under sec 78 is binding - so if they have changed the docs they sent you then just disregard them - that is only MY opinion and it has not been discussed as yet!!

[un1boy]

My friend has had a settlement offer from a car company she took out insurance with.

She has already settled the car agreement, but now, they are asking her to pay £500 by today,(which she doesn't have) to settle the insurance side of the agreement, or else the full balance owed will become immediately due and payable.

She has it in writing that they accepted her offer to pay £75 a month, which she has been doing and hasn't missed a payment, so how can they ask for the total balance if she doesn't accept their offer?

 

They can't - she should write back and ask them why they have asked for the full amount as she has not broken the agreement.

 

Of, she could ask for the original agreement to prove she took out the insurance!!!

[monopoly23]

Hi uniboy. I have her agreement in front of me, and it is a true copy. Im in the middle of drafting her a letter but Im a bit stuck.

Should I include that it is deemed intimidatory to demand that she pays the £500 within 1 week or else she has to pay the full amount?