Cap1 & CCA return

[wacsa]

Which date in April?

 

 

The orinal lloyds card was taken out before the begining of April 07, don't know the exact date. The Airmiles Duo was taken out Jan/Feb 08.

[car2403]

The orinal lloyds card was taken out before the begining of April 07, don't know the exact date. The Airmiles Duo was taken out Jan/Feb 08.

 

The key date is the 6 April 2007 - this is when the relevant sections of CCA 2006 was enacted in to power, removing the need for a debtor signed agreement to enforce.

[wacsa]

The key date is the 6 April 2007 - this is when the relevant sections of CCA 2006 was enacted in to power, removing the need for a debtor signed agreement to enforce.

 

I understand the key date, but the original card was taken out before April 07 and then replaced by the Airmiles well after April 07. So i was wondering if it is worth trying to class this card as the original (pre April 07) card?

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Sorry to butt in.

 

Can you send a Skeleton Argument to the Court & claimant 14 days before the hearing?

 

If not when would you send one?

 

[car2403]

I understand the key date, but the original card was taken out before April 07 and then replaced by the Airmiles well after April 07. So i was wondering if it is worth trying to class this card as the original (pre April 07) card?

 

Need to see the agreements.

 

Suggest a new thread, on this issue, where they can be posted. (personal data removed)

[car2403]

Sorry to butt in.

 

Can you send a Skeleton Argument to the Court & claimant 14 days before the hearing?

 

If not when would you send one?

 

 

???

[lexis200]

Sorry to put a completely off-topic question on here, but I did another post which has not had the answer I need posted (I was kindly given the relevant OFT bit, but I'd really like to know if there's any legislation - something they actually have to follow), and calls are coming in on a reasonably regular basis.

 

So anyway - can a DCA/Bank refuse to say what company they are from if they are not talking to the account holder?

 

I've been told on the phone they can't tell me (it's OH's account), and the message left on the answerphone simply said to call x number and quote x reference number. No info as to what it was in relation to, or who it was calling.

 

Can they do this, or do they have to say who they are?

 

Thanks

 

Lexis:)

Edited March 21, 2009 by lexis200

[MAGDA]

Sorry to put a completely off-topic question on here, but I did another post which has not had the answer I need posted (I was kindly given the relevant OFT bit, but I'd really like to know if there's any legislation - something they actually have to follow), and calls are coming in on a reasonably regular basis.

 

So anyway - can a DCA/Bank refuse to say what company they are from if they are not talking to the account holder?

 

I've been told on the phone they can't tell me (it's OH's account), and the message left on the answerphone simply said to call x number and quote x reference number. No info as to what it was in relation to, or who it was calling.

 

Can they do this, or do they have to say who they are?

 

Thanks

 

Lexis:)

 

I've had a similar experience and the company (if the call isn't actually for you) will normally say it is a business call and they need to speak to Mr X. They do this because of Data protection and I don't think they actually have to give you any information at all as you are not the account holder, unless they have been given permission by the actual person to do so, although some of them do say who they are, just depends on the company. Magda

[ncf355]

URGENT!

 

Right folks

 

What do we think to this=

 

I have an agreement which states for Balance Transfers-

 

 

Annual interest rate 0.0%

APR 7.3%

 

I am engaged in a court case on this and have directly questioned this

 

Response is -

 

The interest rate is at the fixed intruductory rate for 5 months after transfer, then reverts to the amount for purchases and other amounts (listed as 14.5% Annual and 14.5% APR)

 

My argument is that if their contention is correct, APR for Balance transfers should be :

 

14.5% / 12 = 1.2083% X 7 (number of months left after 5 month 0%) =

 

8.4583 (Technically an APR of 8.46 I believe?)

 

Which means that the APR given at 7.3% falls short of the actual by some 1.13% and thus exceeds the tolerance permitted in SI1553 Schedule 7 1. (2)

 

Also, cann someone direct me to the Wilson paragraph thats states the bit about a prescribed term not being mistated even in the slightest?

[ncf355]

Oh,

 

regards the above, can I ask no one uses QUOTE as I intend to temporarily remove my post until tmw evening so MIB dont get a heads up (though If I'm correct there isnt a lot they could do)

[Viscount Stair]

In the context of a side-skirmish on behalf of Mrs VS, I have run into an argument based on a regulation 7 of the Copy Docs Regs regarding the provision of current Ts and Cs rather than both original and current Ts and Cs.

 

This came up on another thread too and I promised to post some wording I was concocting and to post it here to give it a wider audience (or wider exposure for critics ).

 

Here is the wording, in the hope it might be useful and/or provoke discussion:

 

Contrary to assertions made by X in a letter dated X, X has still failed to comply with its obligations under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

It is indeed correct that a set of documents was sent to me under cover of a letter dated X from X. However, X did not thereby comply with its obligations under section 78 of the 1974 Act.

 

Regulation 3(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) requires the provision of a true copy of an agreement. Although this need not be an exact copy and certain information may be omitted from a true copy, it must still be a true copy rather than a conjectured reconstruction and the information that may be omitted is strictly specified.

However, it is not the case that information need only be provided in relation to an agreement as varied or that only the most recent version of the terms and conditions applicable to an agreement need be provided.

 

Seeking to rely on regulation 7 in supporting that position is to overlooks both the distinctions between the wording regulation 7 on one hand and regulations 8 and 9 on the other.

 

Although regulations 8 and 9 use the word "comprise", regulation 7 uses the word "include". It provides that copies provided in accordance with any section other than section 85 shall include either an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation or an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied.

 

X would only have been entitled to provide a statement of the current terms of the agreement in lieu of a true copy of the executed agreement in the very limited circumstances in which regulation 9 applies (ie to agreements entered into prior to 1985).

 

Neither regulation 8 nor 9 applies in this instance, so the information provided must include the current terms and conditions and not merely comprise the current terms and conditions.

 

Accordingly, X was (and is still) obliged to provide a true copy of the terms and conditions referred to in the application form in their original form, in addition to the current terms and conditions that have been provided.

 

I would be obliged if these could now be provided without further delay or prevarication.

 

In the meantime, the effect of section 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is that X is precluded from taking any enforcement action whatsoever in relation to the account.

[scrible]

Sorry but I can't find any reference to this issue I have so have posted it here, once again apologise if in wrong place.

 

Letter sent to cc companies asking for CCA, I make it 12 + 2 days tomorrow but I am assuming normal days and not working days - is this correct??

I have heard nothing from any of the companies. If nothing heard tomorrow can I assume that we are in dispute or is it default??

Also should I then be sending another letter to the companies to confirm this dispute/default and if so is there a template anywhere I could use???

CCCS have told me to make a token payment of £1 each month to my CC companies - should I continue with this arrangement???

 

once again sorry to hijack this post if its the wrong one

 

any help gratefully received !!!

[ncf355]

Hi Scrible,

 

Its working days I'm afraid

 

Did you send the requests via recorded post so you have proof of making the request?

 

When they fail to meet the deadline, its regarded as in dispute

 

Its always helpful to send a reminder so you can show willing

 

 

With the CCCS £1, I would wait until they pass the deadline by, say, 5 working days then contact CCCS suggesting you then withold payment pending them meeting your S78 request (I'm assuming in saying this your credit file is already trashed by the fact you are paying £1/month?)

[car2403]

NCF - do you have the agreement posted on a thread? The APR depends on many factors, including initial interest free periods, which is usually 56 days, but may vary.

 

I ain't no expert on APR, but Peterbard is our resident (and now active) expert that should be able to lend a hand in this instance? A PM to him may be in order, then?

[scrible]

hi ncf355

 

thanks for your response

 

I sent the requests via normal first class post - a friend who has previously done this told me this is what she did and it was fine.

I did send cheques(signed by my partner and not me) for £1 - only 1 of the 7 has been cashed

would you recommend I send reminder letters to the other 6 recorded??

as for my credit file - not the best!!

[car2403]

hi ncf355

 

thanks for your response

 

I sent the requests via normal first class post - a friend who has previously done this told me this is what she did and it was fine.

I did send cheques(signed by my partner and not me) for £1 - only 1 of the 7 has been cashed

would you recommend I send reminder letters to the other 6 recorded??

as for my credit file - not the best!!

 

Did you get proof of postage from the post office counter?

 

You really need to prove that you sent them.

 

If you didn't, you may want to cancel the remaining cheques and resending them first class post with proof of postage, or using recorded/special delivery with tracked receipt of delivery.

[ncf355]

NCF - do you have the agreement posted on a thread? The APR depends on many factors, including initial interest free periods, which is usually 56 days, but may vary.

 

I ain't no expert on APR, but Peterbard is our resident (and now active) expert that should be able to lend a hand in this instance? A PM to him may be in order, then?

 

 

Hi CAR/All

 

link to my new thread with CCA etc HERE

 

Please take a look if you have time

 

I have more info to add on things I perceive as incorrect with the CCA

[chris2806]

Hi all any chance somebody could take a look and advise on a letter I've got back from cap one

see my thread titled Re: claim with capital one cca

[millymollymoo]

Not really....improperly executed, in reality means that they have to go to court to gain enforcement.....and they'll get it. However if you can show how anything missing has predudiced you, the court can re-open the agreement and you might get a reduction................ slim chance though

 

rgds

 

Dave

 

Hi I have a very similar agreement to phatram, received it tiny though[ about the size of a credit card!] I have been told that it is improperly executed and up to a judge to decide. whats your feelings on this though. Under the IMPORTANT _ YOUR RIGHTS PLEASE READ CAREFULLY [this bit makes it improperly executed] it says:

 

We CAN enforce ..... instead of we CANNOT.

 

What do you think?? Quite clearly predujiced here as I have NO RIGHTS whatsoever!

 

This made me suspicious and due to the size of the agreement have for 3 months requested a more legible copy - they have COMPLETELY ignored all my letters, why I ask:cool: I am wondering that due to mine having no logo and all typed with no credit limit that this may be reconstructed as similar agreements are different than mine. Also I am confused as to why the monthly interest for cash although a different APR is the same as the purchases:confused:

 

CitizenB:) kindly suggested a letter short and sharp as i have now received a letter from Green& Co solicitors:mad:

 

Please take a look.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/176709-mint-rbs-advanta-cca.html

 

Milly XXX

[ncf355]

Hi CAR/All

 

link to my new thread with CCA etc HERE

 

Please take a look if you have time

 

I have more info to add on things I perceive as incorrect with the CCA

 

 

BUMP on this one - need some help as court TMW!

 

Cheers

 

8)

[lexis200]

Sorry to put a completely off-topic question on here, but I did another post which has not had the answer I need posted (I was kindly given the relevant OFT bit, but I'd really like to know if there's any legislation - something they actually have to follow), and calls are coming in on a reasonably regular basis.

 

So anyway - can a DCA/Bank refuse to say what company they are from if they are not talking to the account holder?

 

I've been told on the phone they can't tell me (it's OH's account), and the message left on the answerphone simply said to call x number and quote x reference number. No info as to what it was in relation to, or who it was calling.

 

Can they do this, or do they have to say who they are?

 

Thanks

 

Lexis:)

 

I've had a similar experience and the company (if the call isn't actually for you) will normally say it is a business call and they need to speak to Mr X. They do this because of Data protection and I don't think they actually have to give you any information at all as you are not the account holder, unless they have been given permission by the actual person to do so, although some of them do say who they are, just depends on the company. Magda

 

Thanks Magda

 

I just assumed they had to as I was sure I'd read somewhere about OFCOM stating that messages left had to state who they were - they couldn't be anonymous any more.

 

Kind of a pointless exercise for them though if they won't give the company, as I've categorically told them I will not pass the phone to OH unless I know who it is - it is my private line after all, and even before DCA's etc neither of us would think of handing over the phone if the person on the other end hadn't identified themselves. Ho hum:rolleyes:

[scrible]

Hi Chris, thanks for those pointers. I have received a letter today from MINT which says -

 

'In terms of CCA copy document regulations, the 'true' copy requirement can be satisfied by providing a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and providing a copy of the current terms of the card agreement.'

 

Surely this is not sufficient. I seem to have read this in previous posts but I would be grateful if you would confirm that it is indeed the case.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

[Viscount Stair]

I just assumed they had to as I was sure I'd read somewhere about OFCOM stating that messages left had to state who they were - they couldn't be anonymous any more.

There are Ofcom guidelines about automated calls. There is supposed to be a recorded message if there is no real person available to take the call at the other end. There is also supposed to be 1471 information available for automated calls.

 

It does not apply to calls made by real people but even that much is honoured more in the breach than the observance.

[Viscount Stair]

Hi Chris, thanks for those pointers. I have received a letter today from MINT which says -

 

'In terms of CCA copy document regulations, the 'true' copy requirement can be satisfied by providing a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and providing a copy of the current terms of the card agreement.'

 

Surely this is not sufficient. I seem to have read this in previous posts but I would be grateful if you would confirm that it is indeed the case.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

Provided that the true copy is indeed a true copy and both the original and current Ts and Cs have provided then Mint have complied.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Just say I am been taken to Court and the Claimant could not find the DN notice.

 

Would it be possible to Counterclaim for damages for putting a default on my Credit file. Also is this done on an application notice to the Court

 

HAK