Cap1 & CCA return

[Number6]

Hi

yes like old times all we nead now is the old man from the begining of this thead and the the three witches and we have a full set.

 

Peter

 

 

What did happen to tamadus?

 

And who are the three witches of whom you speak?

[Peterbard]

Hi

He posts in a galaxy not so far far away.

 

Why angry cat

pam and the other one

Of course

 

Peter

[Number6]

Hi

He posts in a galaxy not so far far away.

 

Why angry cat

pam and the other one

Of course

 

Peter

 

Ah, of course.

[Muffintop]

Perterbard & Muffintop,

 

I see you're currently online......could you please give me your take on this? Thx!

Peter is more experienced than I, but I was advised by another cagger also very experienced that it would not be a good idea to continue payments when the account was in dispute, however as above it has to be your choice... sorry. (i have decided not to pay) I have also been advised on one of my threads muffintop v mbna I think that as long as you are paying any payment even 1.00 you are keepin the 6 years to be barred from your credit file going.. i think if its in dispute then its in dispute full stop.. just my opinion

Edited March 8, 2009 by Muffintop

[pt2537]

Muffin,

 

I think that it is far better if you are going to stop paying, you do so on the basis of a legal challenge for a declaration pursuant to s142 CCA 1974

 

to merely stop paying is a dangerous option if you are not 100% sure that the agreement is unenforceable

[Muffintop]

Muffin,

 

I think that it is far better if you are going to stop paying, you do so on the basis of a legal challenge for a declaration pursuant to s142 CCA 1974

 

to merely stop paying is a dangerous option if you are not 100% sure that the agreement is unenforceable

Now you have me worried, I thought had followd the process by the letter, sent the standard letters on here following no receipt of anything apart from current t & cs. the one that states the account is in dispute.. not sure if it is s142 cca 74.. is there a standard letter for this one I can look at and amend.. will have to check out s142 cca tomorrow.

[Muffintop]

just checked my letters trail, I have not mentioned s142 cca in this letter but given reasons why what they ahve sent to me in my opinion is not enforceable, this has got me worried now... in a nut shell b4 I can check out s142 tomorrow at work, if your online still can you give me the guist of s142 and if I should now write to them and reiterate the account in my opinion is in dispute and quote this... they have now told me they will not have anymore correspondance on this matter and will pass to dca.

[MAGDA]

Generally enforceable?????

 

Oh no they are not. Battered Egg recently in court and they claimed they were going to appeal then took advice from senior counsel and rolled over and died

 

check the link in my signature it explains a lot more

 

Yes, I agree pt, but I have been told on the forum, for example when I posted my agreement up, that it was enforceable, I have always doubted this and this is why I continue to dispute it with Egg. My own account has now been in dispute for around 18 months or more, and Egg have gone extremely quiet! I know you have pointed out various flaws in the Egg agreements, such as the fact that it states Limit and not Credit Limit, and of course there are other flaws also, so personally, I don't think they are as enforceable as we have previously been led to believe, which your own experience proves. Glad you were so successful, as a lot of others on the forum have their own problems with egg at present. Magda

[Needabreak]

I did not think that a Credit Card Company could instruct a solicitor to send out a letter stating that...

 

"Because you have failed to pay the outstanding balance of your account, were going to threaten to get a charging order on your house"

 

This would be before sending out even so much as a Default Notice.

 

Letter Here

 

Do I have any recourse on the Solicitor sending out this letter in the first place?

Is is paramount to requesting full payment before issuing a default notice?

 

Unless you call this joke a Default Notice.

 

My Thread this all relates to

 

Thanks,

Needabreak.

[pudsey7]

Could someone please have a look at the attachments and see if they think that any are unenforceable?

 

Thanks

 

 

Nemo Agreement.pdf

 

nemo agreement2.pdf

 

RBS Agreement.pdf

 

Welcome agreement1.pdf

 

Welcome agreement2.pdf

[Peterbard]

just checked my letters trail, I have not mentioned s142 cca in this letter but given reasons why what they ahve sent to me in my opinion is not enforceable, this has got me worried now... in a nut shell b4 I can check out s142 tomorrow at work, if your online still can you give me the guist of s142 and if I should now write to them and reiterate the account in my opinion is in dispute and quote this... they have now told me they will not have anymore correspondance on this matter and will pass to dca.

 

Hi

Section 142 enables you to apply to the court to give a decision on the enforcrceability of your agreement

What i would say is if you stop paying the company,they are going to dump all over your credit file even if you pay a minimum payment and no matter how much you contest that the agreement is in dispute.

They will just say oh no it isn't we have complied .

But if you go to court and get an order saying this agreement is unenforceable then their can be no argument the agreementis not unly is in dispute it is unenforceable.

There are a lot of bodies out there that say that unenforceable (lacours for one) agreements should not be mentioned on a credit file apart from the fact that it would be an unarguable disputed account.

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

I did not think that a Credit Card Company could instruct a solicitor to send out a letter stating that...

 

"Because you have failed to pay the outstanding balance of your account, were going to threaten to get a charging order on your house"

 

This would be before sending out even so much as a Default Notice.

 

Letter Here

 

Do I have any recourse on the Solicitor sending out this letter in the first place?

Is is paramount to requesting full payment before issuing a default notice?

 

Unless you call this joke a Default Notice.

 

My Thread this all relates to

 

Thanks,

Needabreak.

 

Hi

Yes it contravines the OFT rules of practice covering debt collection it should be on their site.

The cannot threaten or infer to do anything that they cannot legaly justify.

 

You could threaten them with a report to the ir regulatory body.

 

Peter

[Muffintop]

Thanks Peter,

I think this is a case of conflicting opinions and quite dangerous if you dont have a lot of knowledge in the first place apart from what you read via CAG. Of course we at the end of the day all have to make our own decision and we are responsible for them. I understood it that it was a case of 12 plus 2 days... showing that you are doing everything to show your are being reasonable in the period of time you would wait for your cca and if still nothing enforceable received or anything at all then the only way to go would be to stop payments and place account in dispute. I have since realised that the dispute is only your interpretation of dispute and the credit card comp do not see it the same way and this is how they are able to place inadverse material on your credit file (they are pretty much a law unto themselves) they think if they have even sent you current t & c's that means they have fulfilled their responsibilitys on sec 77/78 of cca.... I have also tried to get my sar and done a cpr pre court request and had nothing.

I have two cards mbna and bcard that Iv dealt with by stopping payments, a 3rd card with m & s I went through same process but continued to pay, it seems to me I have had more responses by not paying and I would welcome going to court (as long as I dont end up loosing and paying huge costs but under 5k anyway) in order to see my original cca... I am hoping that any dj would see that I have tried my hardest to get them to show me the cca and they have had every opportunity to comply.

 

As far as the credit file goes, I am gutted truly that they have placed entries on my file as I have never in my life missed a payment ever.. this could have an effect on my future, but I was hopin if it were to ever get to court or get finalised with a F & F settlement then i would be able to get my file cleaned up.

 

I have been advised it is not a good idea to take the credit cards to court as it would be up to me to prove enforceability. To clarify are you saying that a sec127 request is me starting court proceedings? if so I dont think I want to go this way as it appears quite dangerous, I would rather now my file messed up wait for them.

[AnimalMagic]

If the DCA/Creditor is placing information on your credit file regarding a potentially unenforcable agreement, I would consider applying for further cards/bank accounts and collect refusal letters. If the agreement is then declared unenforcable, this may provide evidence of loss for a subsequent defamation case. Note that every application is noted on your credit file and a refusal will work against you, do don't overdo it.

 

You should also ensure the dispute is noted on your credit file.

[Needabreak]

Hi

Yes it contravines the OFT rules of practice covering debt collection it should be on their site.

The cannot threaten or infer to do anything that they cannot legaly justify.

 

You could threaten them with a report to the ir regulatory body.

 

Peter

 

I think I will threaten to report them. They should have got their facts right, and I'm in the mood to today

 

Should I threaten to report them to the Solicitors Regulation Authority, or someone else?

 

Thanks Peter.

[Needabreak]

I think I will threaten to report them. They should have got their facts right, and I'm in the mood to today

 

Should I threaten to report them to the Solicitors Regulation Authority, or someone else?

 

Thanks Peter.

 

How about this? Can anyone have a quick look to see if I can improve the letter.

 

Phillip Robinson

Optima Legal Solicitors

Arndale House

Charles Street

Bradford

West Yorkshire

BD1 1UN

 

Your Client: MBNA Europe

Balance outstanding: £11,008.50 (as of your letter 10th November 2008)

Re:− Account/Reference Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

 

Dear Mr Robinson,

 

Thank you for your letter 10th November 2008. Sorry for the delay in replying.

 

You state in you letter dated above that as I had failed to pay the balance on my account, that your client may have no alternative than to issue proceedings to obtain a charging order against me.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended), Creditors are forbidden from requesting the full outstanding balance prior to issuing a valid Default Notice. As you state that I had failed to pay the outstanding balance and provided the outstanding figure on your letter, I can only assume you would have had sight of such a valid notice.

 

I’m sure you are aware that you cannot threaten or infer to do anything that you cannot legally justify. Therefore please supply me with such justification that you had a right to do so as per your letter.

 

I would also point out that your letter caused me, and members of my family to suffer unnecessary distress at a difficult time for us, and I am seriously considering at the moment, whether to report you and your client to your regulatory authorities if such justification is not forthcoming.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Needabreak.

[AnimalMagic]

Maybe I am being pedantic, but I dislike thanking people for abusive letters. How about 'I am in receipt of your letter dated 10 Nov'

 

Personally I think it stronger if you say you are going to report them and you do so. I would like to see an account kept of complaints against these companies so that we can all write to our MPs demanding to know why, when 10 million complaints have been made, no action is taken!

[Needabreak]

Maybe I am being pedantic, but I dislike thanking people for abusive letters. How about 'I am in receipt of your letter dated 10 Nov'

 

Personally I think it stronger if you say you are going to report them and you do so. I would like to see an account kept of complaints against these companies so that we can all write to our MPs demanding to know why, when 10 million complaints have been made, no action is taken!

 

Thanks AM, Point taken, I will not thank them for sending me a nasty letter. Upon thinking a little further, they title their letter NOTICE OF LEGAL ACTION, so I am wondering whether to ask under CPR 31:16 for the information, as they say they have been informed by MBNA that I had failed to pay the outstanding balance.

 

If there is such a letter, it would prove that MBNA would have unlawfully terminated my account by requesting the outstanding balance, rather than just the arrears.

 

If there is not such a letter, they cannot provide justification for their letter in the first place and I report them anyway.

 

Heads I win Tails they lose? What do you think?

 

Needabreak

[Peterbard]

Thanks Peter,

I think this is a case of conflicting opinions and quite dangerous if you dont have a lot of knowledge in the first place apart from what you read via CAG. Of course we at the end of the day all have to make our own decision and we are responsible for them. I understood it that it was a case of 12 plus 2 days... showing that you are doing everything to show your are being reasonable in the period of time you would wait for your cca and if still nothing enforceable received or anything at all then the only way to go would be to stop payments and place account in dispute. I have since realised that the dispute is only your interpretation of dispute and the credit card comp do not see it the same way and this is how they are able to place inadverse material on your credit file (they are pretty much a law unto themselves) they think if they have even sent you current t & c's that means they have fulfilled their responsibilitys on sec 77/78 of cca.... I have also tried to get my sar and done a cpr pre court request and had nothing.

I have two cards mbna and bcard that Iv dealt with by stopping payments, a 3rd card with m & s I went through same process but continued to pay, it seems to me I have had more responses by not paying and I would welcome going to court (as long as I dont end up loosing and paying huge costs but under 5k anyway) in order to see my original cca... I am hoping that any dj would see that I have tried my hardest to get them to show me the cca and they have had every opportunity to comply.

 

As far as the credit file goes, I am gutted truly that they have placed entries on my file as I have never in my life missed a payment ever.. this could have an effect on my future, but I was hopin if it were to ever get to court or get finalised with a F & F settlement then i would be able to get my file cleaned up.

 

I have been advised it is not a good idea to take the credit cards to court as it would be up to me to prove enforceability. To clarify are you saying that a sec127 request is me starting court proceedings? if so I dont think I want to go this way as it appears quite dangerous, I would rather now my file messed up wait for them.

 

Hi

 

I think you mean to prove unenforceability.

 

I think Pt has said before that if you are not sure of your claim it is not a good idea to pursue the 142 route but if you are confident anyway its one of those decision time things again unfortunately.

Personally i would rather get thm in court and have it cut and dried sometimes when they know you are serious they tend to alter their stance particullarily if they have no valid agreement.

But I would not advise you to do tha if you are not confident it may be better to ride it out and see what they do it may be that you will be able to clear any damenge done to your file father down the line.

I really wish that i could say do this this and this and it will all work out but .

Anyway i can only wish you the best of luck

 

Regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

Could someone please have a look at the attachments and see if they think that any are unenforceable?

 

Thanks

 

 

Nemo Agreement.pdf

 

nemo agreement2.pdf

 

RBS Agreement.pdf

 

Welcome agreement1.pdf

 

Welcome agreement2.pdf

 

Seen this before somewher anyway last one first

 

 

Total credit £17413.76

 

TAP £47198.99

 

TCC £29785.23

 

APR 17.841%

 

 

The insurance charge at K has been included within the credit which is correct if this was an optional insurance.

 

Peter

 

 

Peter

[langtonhighway]

Hi, sorry for hijacking, but I noticed that several people were viewing this thread! How do I open a new thread?? I want to ask some questions about the difference between Terms and Conditions, and prescribed terms (which I think are different things?) in relation to a CCA request I just got back from Mint.

 

Ta

[Peterbard]

Hi

RBs loan

 

Checks out correct also as long as the insurance is optional as it says

APR 6.795%

[Peterbard]

Hi, sorry for hijacking, but I noticed that several people were viewing this thread! How do I open a new thread?? I want to ask some questions about the difference between Terms and Conditions, and prescribed terms (which I think are different things?) in relation to a CCA request I just got back from Mint.

 

Ta

 

Hi why don't you ask it on here not fallen out with us already:(

 

Peter

[langtonhighway]

Ok, I just didn't want to get into trouble! LOL. I have actually figured out how to post a new thread, but it came out all spaced out for some reason, I'll try again ......

 

I've just got back my CCA from Mint, it seems to be ok at first sight; it says Credit Card Agreement, has the key financial info, has my signature and my right to cancel.

 

It doesn't have the creditor's signature, and no other terms and conditions. The covering letter says "in terms of CCA copy agreement regulations, the true copy requirement can be satisfied by providing a copy agreement at the date the card agreement was made and providing that plus a copy of the current terms of the card agreement"

 

The enclosed current terms and conditions have my current credit limit, my current APR and other current terms.

 

Is that any good, or were they all supposed to be in the same document? I have looked for "four corners" but haven't been able to find it specified anywhere.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

[Peterbard]

Hi, sorry for hijacking, but I noticed that several people were viewing this thread! How do I open a new thread?? I want to ask some questions about the difference between Terms and Conditions, and prescribed terms (which I think are different things?) in relation to a CCA request I just got back from Mint.

 

Ta

 

The terms and conditions of an agreement should consist of all the information that is required for the creditor to give the lender at the point of sale(execution) of the loan or credit facility.

 

The information that the creditor should give the lender is stated by government legislature (consumer credit act 1974) and has to be included in the T and C's if the agreement is to be a legally binding on both parties.

Thes are required terms.

 

Certain pieses of information contained within the required terms above are vital to an agreement and if not there make the agreement totally unenforceable if the agreement is dated before the 7th of April 2007, these are the prescribed terms.

 

After the above date all the terms are just required terms this means that if missing the court can still enforce the agreement (make you pay up if you default).

 

Oh and welcome to the forum

 

Regards

Peter