Cabot Credit Management

[captainlessthansensible]

Hi

In May this year I sent a CCA request to Cabot who had taken over debt owed to MBNA. I heard nothing until this week when documents arrived, said by Cabot to fulfil the CCA request.

 

The documents are:

a) the original application form;

b) some T&Cs; and

c) statement of account (that literarily doesn't add up!)

 

Am I right in thinking that the Executed Agreement needs to be returned in order for the debt to be enforceable, or are a) - c) enough for the debt to be enforced through the courts?

 

Regards

[cerberusalert]

Moved to the Debt Collection Forum.

[citizenB]

Since a judgment made last year, the requirements for a s78 request are pretty limited. Although I believe the original still has to be produced should litigation proceed.

 

If the statement of account doesnt add up then I would say you have reason to ask them to resolve it.

 

What are you trying to achieve ?

[captainlessthansensible]

Since being made redundant earlier in the year (and because of our ages - both 60s - effectively retired), we've tried to use some of the redundancy monies to get to being debt-free. We have made all creditors F&F offers, and had a good uptake, just Cabot & BOS outstanding.

 

Since this debt originated with MBNA, we hoped that they would be unable to provide any documentation!

 

As they have, and since it doesn't include the executed agreement, I thought that their failure to provide it could be used to say it was unenforceable, and would they therefore consider £xxx in F&F?

 

What was the ruling that undermined the s78's effectiveness?

 

Regards

[citizenB]

HSBC v Carey, I think

[dx100uk]

if there is a clear financial link

then recon docs or an application form will sadly be enough

the days of wriggling out of debts by a paperwork error are long gone.

 

i am concerned to see you are doing lots of F&F's

 

i do hope they are all marking your credit file as satified?

if its partially satified, then you run the risk of being bitten again

on the outstanding balances

 

dx

[captainlessthansensible]

Interesting!

 

Taking your comments in order:

 

a) what constitutes "a clear financial link" - I believed that the executed agreement (possibly reconstituted) was needed for the agreement to be enforced?

 

b) what concerns you about F&Fs in particular? I think the only partial we've had is from Egg, who've written to say "We acknowledge and agree that this sum is tendered and accepted as a full and final settlement of all and any claims of either party arising or capable of rising under the above agreement".

 

c) how do I check my credit file to see if it is being marked as satisfied?

 

Thanks and regards

[dx100uk]

experian/credit expert site

 

if you have a card

just use that but cancel before 30 day renewal - else it wont be free

 

make SURE your CRA file shows ALL your old addressess too

 

your really need to do some reading around regrding your other questions

 

a clear financial link is proof wherby you had the card and used it [statements they have application form, bank DD's etc etc]

a recon and a financial link will do for a judge

you can no longer wriggle out of debts by paperwork errors

the reclaims co's closed that hole.

 

i must also pointout the CAG does not condone debt avoidance & that is not what we are here for.

 

dx

[captainlessthansensible]

Thanks again for your answers so far. I'm really interested to know what your concern with F&Fs is?

 

Also, it should be clear that we, too, do not condone debt avoidance. The number of F&Fs we have achieved so far (about 12) is testimony to that. I'm unsure which of my statements has led you to believe that we practise or support debt avoidance, but can assure you that you have misinterpreted!

 

Regards

[dx100uk]

sorry but you appear to be hoping a paperwork error will write the debt off it wont.

 

have a read of seq's blog in my sig.

 

 

bit busy now.

 

dx

[captainlessthansensible]

Equally sorry, but you don't seem to understand my English!

 

"As they have, and since it doesn't include the executed agreement, I thought that their failure to provide it could be used to say it was unenforceable, and would they therefore consider £xxx in F&F?"

 

If you have difficulty with any of any of my other sentences, just let me know. A fulsome apology for your obvious lack of understanding would be welcome.

 

Regards

[Bazooka Boo]

So your not looking for any help or assistance then? You seem to be doing it perfectly fine in your own way, I look forward to hearing you successfully argue your paperwork argument.

[captainlessthansensible]

I'm astute enough to know the ground covered so far, thank you.

 

The suggested path with Cabot is ground-breaking for me, and reassurance was what I was looking for.

 

I did not expect someone from the CAG team to accuse me falsely of debt avoidance. I do expect an apology from said person: I don't know whether there is a CAG complaints procedure (if not, perhaps ther should be?), but the misinterpretation/misunderstanding exhibited should not be part of the CAG portfolio.

 

Regards

[Bazooka Boo]

What the site team member was saying is correct, CAG is not about debt avoidance, I don't believe it should be taken personally? Surely your thicker skinned than that?

 

And yes there is a complaints procedure.

 

But to reiterate and get back to the topic, a paperwork error will NOT null&void a debt, there has been too many cases whereby that has been argued to death and now the courts just don't want to hear it.

 

Agreed, if they are unable to produce a copy of the actual agreement then a F&F offer can be much more easily negotiated to the debtors favour, but again, if they clearly believe that they have a strong case regardless of the paperwork argument then they must have an ace up their sleeve, so I would tread carefully.

[dx100uk]

no-one accused you of anything.

 

i hold no opinion at all - other than, as a member of the site team, pointing you, more than once,

to the reality of paperwork errors, no longer being a valid get out clause.

 

if or if not, that is your game, again makes no odds to us - we will still help you.

and continue to do so.

 

there are other ways [like reclaiming charges/ppi etc] to skin these cats!

 

my pers concern is more of one that you p'haps have sadly wasted some of your redundancy money

by making F&F's whereby your situation effectively does not actually change.

 

we've all been there , paid debts and then found its been marked Partial settlement

and further up the road a DCA buys the debt

and chases you for it.

 

and we go what?

 

it will be interesting to see what your cra file shows

i hope my concerns are not true

 

here to stop you wasting your money & p'haps make you some !

 

dx

[captainlessthansensible]

dx100uk - your quotes:

 

1 "you can no longer wriggle out of debts by paperwork errors

the reclaims co's closed that hole.

 

i must also pointout the CAG(Consumer Action Group) does not condone debt avoidance & that is not what we are here for."

 

2 "sorry but you appear to be hoping a paperwork error will write the debt off it wont."

 

3 "i hold no opinion at all - other than, as a member of the site team, pointing you, more than once,

to the reality of paperwork errors, no longer being a valid get out clause."

 

From the above, it must be clear to a man on a galloping horse that you have repeatedly accused me of trying to wriggle out of debts owing to paperwork errors. Your understanding of English seems limited, and your further quote:

"no-one accused you of anything" suggests to me that you are unaware of the consequences of your actions. I therefore request that a moderator looks into your responses, under the CAG complaint procedures.

 

As an update to the case in point, Cabot have agreed to settle for a sum of 57.8% of the debt in F&F settlement, joining the other we have 12 arranged, with documentation that ensures there will be no further recourse to the debt. As a matter of interest, Barclaycard, having agreed to an F&F, tried to pursue the remainder of the debt. They agreed to pay £100 compensation when this error was pointed out to them.

 

Regards