Emloyed vs Self Employed

[NewPerson]

Where do I begin?...

 

OK, my husband is registered as a Self Employed Tradesman...and has been working for a client (maintenance company) for over 3months. He was issued with a badge to wear so that the customers knew where the work was from etc. This was fine

 

A few months went by and they gave him a T-shirt (Uniform) and some Magnetic Logos to stick on his van (bigger than his own company logos) and said he should put them on whilst working for them.

 

My husband had declined to put the logo on the van and they sent a text msg a few weeks later complaining that he was either with them or not. And that he had been booking hours to them for his own private work. So he decided he wasnt.

 

We replied that they have only been invoiced for work that he had done for them.

The reason they say this as he has done over 50hours work in 1 week and they were due to pay him for it. So the quibbled over the hours. Either way he did not overbook hours. The also stated that they did not like the fact he did work for other customers.... isnt that the point of being self employed.

 

Here is the email.... as its long winded....and im a stressed wife to even reply to it....

 

Dear *************

 

******** and I are both extremely disappointed with your recent behaviour

 

As you are aware, you were working for ***** for £50 per day, and after coming on board with ************* , were immediately increased to £8.75 per hour i.e. £70 per day which is a 40% pay rise from what you were originally on

 

Recently, we have awarded you another increase to £9 per hour due to your loyalty, and what we thought, mutual respect, and a long term relationship

 

We have been extremely flexible with regards to your hours, your days off etc, despite being often frustrated with your lack of communication i.e. when you were starting, when you were finished for the day, which jobs had been started/completed etc... All of which we have tried to make you understand on numerous occasions, how important this is.

 

As of yet, we have still not received any notice of termination, nor reason for you not turning up to work since **************, and therefore have been forced to rearrange all of the jobs that you had started and booked in. This has caused us not only a huge inconvenience, but also additional costs, to finish the works that you had started

 

There has been bad feeling as we believe that you have been charging us for hours that have not been worked, and in some instances, can prove this, as we have spoken to tenants and other members of the team who have verified that you have sometimes not been where you say you have been.

 

We have tried to contact you many times regarding the above, via calls, emails, and text messages, and asked that you come to speak to us in an attempt to resolve these issues, and any bad feelings, but you have been non responsive, which we have found extremely disrespectful.

 

In addition to this ********, we have made it very clear, that as you are one of our main contractors, and sometimes work over 50 hours a week for us, that you are required to wear our company uniform, our ID badges, and our company magnets on your vehicle. You have made it clear that you are reluctant to do this, and it now makes sense to us, if you are working privately, or on behalf of your

partners business, *******.

 

Due to all of the above, we have no choice but to terminate any working relationship with yourselves, and request that the following items are returned to us within the next 48 hours. If these items are not returned, all relevant costs will be deducted from any outstanding invoices owed to you.

 

1. Company vehicle signage

2. Uniform

3. ID badge

4. ALL materials i.e. plumbing supplies, paint and painting equipment, all items purchased by yourself on our accounts (We have copy receipts if requested)

5. Tools and equipment i.e. ladders etc

Once these have all been returned we will calculate a settlement figure due to the costs incurred by **************** for the jobs that you have abandoned unfinished.

 

Please note that we will not be making any payment to yourself until all the above has been settled, as we will need to revisit all jobs you have attended over the past couple of weeks and check that all works have been completed to a satisfactory standard, as we have not received any satisfaction sheets from yourself for approximately 4 weeks now

 

We feel that the least you could do is to make contact with us, and would appreciate a response

 

If we do not hear from you, and if the above is not returned to us, we will calculate the amount owed to us and if this is in excess of the amount owed to you we will have no choice but to issue court proceedings.

 

Look forward to your response

 

Kindest regards,

 

**************, B.A.

Company Director

Im confused, where my husband stands. He was paid on an hourly rate? is he an Employee? The BACS payments say Wages... inspite of me telling them to change it when I noticed it at the start.What right do they have... this issue we had was over not wanting to put their logo on our van and because he refused this is how they responded. My husband went round to theres but they didnt answer the door when we tried to return there items (badge/uniform/logo/credit card).

 

Surely being paid day rate implies that you are not contracted to a specific job as they call up and say... today your going here today your going there....

 

God im so wound up like a coil ready to explode. Its so upsetting. Why do people have to behave like that. We are not the only other tradesman that they have looked at and used excuses not to pay them.

 

They relied on my husband to go quote the jobs for them, organise the other trades where necessary and because he wont jump this is how they behave.

Edited September 2, 2011 by NewPerson

[NewPerson]

interesting how they have evidence to say he is not where he is suppose to be, from witnesses... I hope they are reliable ones as receipts dont lie.

[NewPerson]

My husband also comes with his own tools... so ladders are not his. Next he'll be saying the Van is his! Hence why they feel they have a right to have their logo on our van.

 

You wouldnt employ B Gas to fit a boiler and tell them to wear there logo. regardless of hours.... or is there a law on it?

[NewPerson]

Sorry if I sound garbled... I have so much in my head swimming around, trying to make sense of it!

[NewPerson]

They forget that I emailed them to say my husband would be in on the Tuesday Morning to discuss the issues... they chose not to answer the door. when he turned up.

 

Communicatin works both ways. They dont answer theyre phone when your chasing them for an invoice. They pay the cheapest one first instead of the one sequentially to be paid.

[NewPerson]

As far as standards are concerned... we have msgs from them saying... don't leave us, we need you. We dont have an issue with your work etc....

[NewPerson]

So if he was booked by them to go do other jobs.... as he is on an hourly rate... is he liable for jobs he hasnt even gone to. this sounds ridiculous... please tell me something that will bring me down to earth and make sense of what they are trying to do.

[NewPerson]

Can you tell im frothing at the mouth about this! Time for a coffee to calm me down.

[NewPerson]

Thats the price of loyalty.... its true, they dont thank you for it! they shaft you and work out how they dont have to pay you. So they might have a BA after their name and that maybe what they were taught. What goes around comes around... Im sure they will get there desserts.... My husband is a well respected tradesman and has customers that arent sat in an ivory tower and they are genuine people that dont take the biscuit.

[NewPerson]

....And, not to mention, when they decided to change the rate to £9. Not because of loyalty... but because the other newbies were getting that and you know how people always discuss pay. That was so it didnt cause an issue. And they when I invoiced them at that rate... they didnt pay the 1st one at that rate (because it was the largest of the 3 invoices due). They paid at the old rate.

 

So they can write the lovely letters that claim to be doing my husband a favour but it all falls down when you look at it. God. Im so miffed!

 

They treat him like their property when he's not. They want all the trappings off an employee without having the issues of Tax, NIC, Sick, Holiday.

 

There certainly wasnt even any contract to suggest he was obliged to wear a uniform or logo etc.... So notice of termination is irrelevant. He is self employed.... not employed.

 

Still seething! My husband would not come home till 9pm at night to go do a normal day with them and then go do his own jobs.

 

They even had the cheek to ask my husband to pass on their details to his customers!

 

I want it to go to court.... As Id like them to explain theirselves.

[honeybee13]

Hello there, welcome to the forum.

 

This has turned into quite a long thread already, and it seems to have been you so far .

 

Please could you tell us what your OH has signed with this company? And also, what outcome are you and he looking for?

 

My best, HB

[NewPerson]

Hi HoneyBee, I guess the email tool me by so much shock that I was livid without really considering where this was going to go. So being me (angry wife) I did reply, point fir point... And I got a reply back telling me that it was nothing to do with me. Anyway... Thx for bringing me back down to earth and think about the practicalities. Well ultimately I would not expect my husband to even consider doing anymore work for them. The likelihood of getting paid is likely to be zero based on the tactics they will use so they don't have to. Seen it before with other people they have used. I've just said to my husband... Return said items and walk away. What goes around will come around.

What is interesting to know are what rights self employed people have over long term clients. Im wondering if they are muddying the edges for there own benefit... Ie: baca payments say Wages although I said to them it isn't advised to ref as this as it could give the wrong impression. That was ignored. Then they state having 2 put there logos on our vehicle. Anyway - after there last email... The relationship is dead for us inspite of suggesting it could be resolved. The construction industry is a ruthless business.

[NewPerson]

Crazy - my husband has tried to return aforementioned items and she wont open the door! I said to call the police and say your concerned for their health as you know someone is in but doesnt seem to come to the door.

[NewPerson]

At least if the police come they cant say he never came to return the items. This twice now they havent answered.

[NewPerson]

They really dont want to pay him! Another tradesman hasnt been paid for 5weeks... and he is still there.

[NewPerson]

Hi forgot to mention - my husband has not signed anything with this company.

[NewPerson]

lol - The other companies partner eventually turned up. Invited my husband in for a coffee and a chat (as said the other one was already inside avoiding my husband), as my husband had started to unload the van with his items. So he goes in. The one that was hiding didnt sit down to join in the chat. My husband said that he had received some very silly emails and texts from the one that has been avoiding him. The other partner said ignore that. ive not got any complaints with you. Can we draw a line under it. Go away and come back tomorrow. We dont want you to leave.

 

interesting, will he come back, wear their shirt and put their logo on his van? my feelings are he shouldnt. Anyway - he now still has half their stuff. And the false accusations were out of order.

[NewPerson]

lol - The other companies partner eventually turned up. Invited my husband in for a coffee and a chat (as said the other one was already inside avoiding my husband), as my husband had started to unload the van with his items. So he goes in. The one that was hiding didnt sit down to join in the chat. My husband said that he had received some very silly emails and texts from the one that has been avoiding him. The other partner said ignore that. ive not got any complaints with you. Can we draw a line under it. Go away and come back tomorrow. We dont want you to leave.

 

interesting, will he come back, wear their shirt and put their logo on his van? my feelings are he shouldnt. Anyway - he now still has half their stuff. And the false accusations were out of order.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I'm pleased it sounds like good news. Is it worth trying to get something in writing so that this confusion doesn't happen again?

 

My best, HB