Lombard and Shoosmiths

[Scania580man]

Hi everyone am new to the site so am hoping you can give me some really good advice.

 

I used to be self employed but ceased trading in 2008. I had a lease agreement with Lombard which I took out in early 2007. When I realised I could no longer stay self employed I informed Lombard immediately and told them of my intentions to find a buyer for the trailer I had under the lease agreement. They were also informed I didn't have any funds to pay the instalments due to a couple of customers registering for bankruptcy.

 

I found a buyer for the trailer,kept Lombard informed. Initially they delayed in providing a settlement figure despite requests from myself and the buyer. Eventually, the sale completed and I knew I would be left with a shortfall which I offered to make monthly instalments of £50. I never received any documentation from Lombard regarding the sale. I also never received any VAT documentation.

 

I requested the VAT documentation and the sale documentation and was told that it was on its way on numerous occasions. Apparently Lombard were busy with "repossessions" and I should just be patient.

 

About 6 months later I was informed that because I defaulted on the original agreement I was not due any VAT documentation.

 

I tried with hundreds of letters and e-mails to get this sorted but have failed. Eventually, I wrote them a letter in late 2009 and heard nothing until May this year. I duly contacted them in writing and told them I was waiting for a response to my letter. In the meantime the debt was sent to Link Financial who sent me letters stating the debt I owed was to someone other than Lombard so the matter was referred back to Lombard.

 

A representative of Lombard telephoned my home and spoke with my wife. I don't mind my wife speaking with him but I am sure it is against Data Protection Laws. He admitted to my wife that Lombard had given me incorrect information and advice with regard to the agreement and the VAT element. He also admitted that the matter had been sent to Link Financial as Lombard just presumed that all matters would have been settled by the time my file was due to go there and he also admitted that the only reason I was being contacted now was to ensure that the debt did not become statute barred.

 

My wife explained to him that I could not phone during the week being a long distance lorry driver and the preferred form of communication would be in writing but this was ignored.

 

I can't find a copy of the original Agreement and can also not find a copy of the default notice. There is nothing in the terms and conditions about the VAT element.

 

I was issued with a Notice of Termination in May 2008 just prior to the sale of the trailer being completed. I'm not sure what date that occurred as I have no documentation. There is nothing on the Notice of Termination regarding the VAT element.

 

With the agreement being a lease purchase I was wondering if Lombard had a responsibility to take the trailer from me and reduce the amount outstanding or assist in finding a buyer none of which happened.

 

The matter has now been referred to Shoosmiths who have stated that unless I provide realistic payment proposals within 14 days then they are instructed to issue court proceedings.

 

I have informed Shoosmiths of the ongoing problems which Lombard have failed to address and they have just sent me a Income and Expenditure Form. I have informed Shoosmiths that the amount outstanding is also in dispute.

 

I have tried to complain previously without success. Lombard have even informed me that they are not regulated by the FSA but clearly states they are on the letterhead!

 

Should I request a copy of the original agreement together with a copy of the default notice? How should I deal with Shoosmiths.

 

Your help and assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

If this is a lease purchase agreement, rather than a straight lease, then VAT is paid on the purchase price of the vehicle and not in your rentals. Have you got the original purchase invoice from the dealer? That is the VAT receipt. Are you sure the agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act? If not, that is why you have not received a default notice.

[Scania580man]

As far as I am aware it is a lease purchase agreement and the VAT was payable on a monthly basis (I was VAT registered) so I was able to claim the VAT back each month. However, I was not provided with any VAT documentation when the vehicle was sold because Lombard state that because they terminated the agreement just prior to the vehicle being sold I lose the right to any VAT documentation. A previous agreement I had with Lombard was a Hire Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 but I do not have a copy of the credit agreement for this most recent one.

[Scania580man]

I would be grateful for any assistance in this matter. I know I am going to have to arrange payments to repay this but obviously if I can get Lombard to reduce the debt somewhat it would help. Shoosmiths attitude is already of a bullying nature.

 

I have had dealings with RBS with regard to their factoring and I know it's the same company and eventually I won but Lombard are even more difficult.

 

Should I go to the Financial Ombudsman?

[bazaar]

Do you have any of the quotes by lombard they are not regulated in writing? Seems like they have been BS ing you. You dont have to fill out an expendature form, Demand a full statement of the account.

[Scania580man]

Yes I have it in writing from them that they are not regulated. Should I request a copy of the agreement, copies of default notices, detailed statement of account and the terms and conditions that set out the details of the right to reclaim VAT if Lombard decide to Terminate the Agreement? should I refer this request to Lombard or Shoosmiths?

[bazaar]

I would send it to Lombard, if Shoosmiths pipe up. tell them in no uncertain terms that the account is in dispute and you are dealing directly with Lombard

[Scania580man]

Thank you will let you know how I get on.

[Scania580man]

Hi all, I have now received a response from Shoosmiths. They have asked that I refer all communication to them and not to Lombard. They have provided me with a copy of the original agreement together with the terms and conditions.

 

They say that no Default Notices were sent as the agreement is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I asked Lombard/Shoosmiths to tell me exactly where in the T&C's it states regarding using the right to claim VAT back if the agreement is terminated and they have told me to read the following in the T&C's:-

 

Events of Repudiation

You will be treated as having repudiated this AGrement if you fail to pay to us any sum due to us within 10 days of its due date or if you fail to rememdy any other breach of this Agrement within 10 days of our notifiying you of that breach. If any breach is not capable of remedy within 10 days then the repudiation will be deemed to have occurred immediately. If you do repudiate this Agreement the hrigin under theis Agrement will terminate automatically and we may then terminate this Agrement by notice in writing to you. If this Agremeent is repudiated you are still fully liable to us for all of your obligations under this Agreement.

 

Events of Termination

We issue a notice to you that any repudiation of this agreement has not been remedied within any agreed period or a remedy is not possible within that period.

 

It does not state anywhere that I lose the right to reclaim VAT or that they do not have to give me a VAT invoice.

 

When I took out this agreement all the T&C's were not fully explained to me and I was under the impression that this has to be the case - Lombard have a responsibility to ensure that I fully understand the Agreement and to fully explain the agreement to me prior to signing and this was not the case at all.

 

Shoosmiths have stated that their client has given their final response with regard to the VAT element and the fact on several occasions gave me deliberate incorrect advice and knowledge and if I do not provide them with realistic payment proposals within 14 days then court proceedings will be issued without further notice.

 

I could do with some really good advice right now. The reason I stopped trading and was left with this debt was due to 3 limited companies taking me for a whole load of money and as I was a sole trader I am left with the debt to sort out.

 

Thanks

[Scania580man]

Does anyone have any advice for me please?

 

Hi all, I have now received a response from Shoosmiths. They have asked that I refer all communication to them and not to Lombard. They have provided me with a copy of the original agreement together with the terms and conditions.

 

They say that no Default Notices were sent as the agreement is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I asked Lombard/Shoosmiths to tell me exactly where in the T&C's it states regarding using the right to claim VAT back if the agreement is terminated and they have told me to read the following in the T&C's:-

 

Events of Repudiation

You will be treated as having repudiated this AGrement if you fail to pay to us any sum due to us within 10 days of its due date or if you fail to rememdy any other breach of this Agrement within 10 days of our notifiying you of that breach. If any breach is not capable of remedy within 10 days then the repudiation will be deemed to have occurred immediately. If you do repudiate this Agreement the hrigin under theis Agrement will terminate automatically and we may then terminate this Agrement by notice in writing to you. If this Agremeent is repudiated you are still fully liable to us for all of your obligations under this Agreement.

 

Events of Termination

We issue a notice to you that any repudiation of this agreement has not been remedied within any agreed period or a remedy is not possible within that period.

 

It does not state anywhere that I lose the right to reclaim VAT or that they do not have to give me a VAT invoice.

 

When I took out this agreement all the T&C's were not fully explained to me and I was under the impression that this has to be the case - Lombard have a responsibility to ensure that I fully understand the Agreement and to fully explain the agreement to me prior to signing and this was not the case at all.

 

Shoosmiths have stated that their client has given their final response with regard to the VAT element and the fact on several occasions gave me deliberate incorrect advice and knowledge and if I do not provide them with realistic payment proposals within 14 days then court proceedings will be issued without further notice.

 

I could do with some really good advice right now. The reason I stopped trading and was left with this debt was due to 3 limited companies taking me for a whole load of money and as I was a sole trader I am left with the debt to sort out.

 

Thanks

[Scania580man]

Can someone explain to me why my Lease Agreement is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and what this means?

 

Thanks

[postggj]

Can you post up the agreement

 

i need to confirm it is not a

 

consumer hire agreement which is regulated by the cca 1974

[Scania580man]

[Scania580man]

I have uploaded a copy of the agreement. Thank you.

[Scania580man]

Hi postggi

 

Have you managed to look at the agreement for me yet?

[Scania580man]

Can anyone help me please I am worried that Shoosmiths are going to issue court proceedings against me? Thanks

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

Can't read your posted copy of the agreement but no doubt the reason it is not regulated by the CCA is because of the amount of credit advanced. A lease purchase agreement is a hire purchase agreement which in CCA speak makes it a consumer credit agreement not a consumer hire agreement. However, trailers are expensive items and I suspect the amount you were loaned exceeds 25K which makes it unregulated. This makes you a business user not a consumer so there is no obligation on Lombard to explain the agreement to you, you are taken to know what you are entering in to. However the VAT position will be the same regardless of whether the agreement is regulated or not. You might need specialist advice on that, but in the meantime I don't see how you can avoid paying the shortfall to Lombard.

[Scania580man]

I understand I will have to pay the shortfall to Lombard but as they refused to issue me with VAT documentation this has obviously cost me more money. Lombard also delayed the sale of the trailer when I ceased trading by delaying providing a settlement figure. Lombard are now refusing to answer these questions any further. Should I take the matter up with the FSA or indeed RBS?

[Scania580man]

Shoosmiths have been communicating with me and I have accepted that I owe part of the debt for dispute the VAT element. I have offered to commence making monthly payments and hope to review the payments at the end of the year with a view to increasing them. Shoosmiths have ignored my request for bank details and have just said that their client (Lombard) denies that they owe me any VAT element and I am now to receive court papers from Northampton County Court.

 

I have found some old bank details for Lombard so have used them and sent a payment today and informed Shoosmiths but have not yet received a response.

 

Any advice anyone? I do not want to incur even more costs. I have told Shoosmiths previously that I accept the debt but dispute part of it and now I have made a payment have they any grounds to issue court proceedings?

[Scania580man]

Shoosmiths have been communicating with me and I have accepted that I owe part of the debt for dispute the VAT element. I have offered to commence making monthly payments and hope to review the payments at the end of the year with a view to increasing them. Shoosmiths have ignored my request for bank details and have just said that their client (Lombard) denies that they owe me any VAT element and I am now to receive court papers from Northampton County Court.

 

I have found some old bank details for Lombard so have used them and sent a payment today and informed Shoosmiths but have not yet received a response.

 

Any advice anyone? I do not want to incur even more costs. I have told Shoosmiths previously that I accept the debt but dispute part of it and now I have made a payment have they any grounds to issue court proceedings?

[Scania580man]

Shoosmiths have got back to me pretty much straight away but the letter was dated tomorrow. It's as if they've already planned out what they're going to do.

 

Basically, they're saying they will accept my payments on a without prejudice basis but to avoid them issuing court proceedings they want to be accept that I am liable for the full amount of the debt. They want £13.5k and with the VAT element and their delay in providing information to allow me to sell the trailer which caused me further costs the true amount would be £7.5k.

 

It's as though they are trying to blackmail me. They have also sent me a further income and expenditure form which they want to complete.

 

Please help I am worried. I do accept I owe some of the money and only originally stopped paying to try and get Lombard to deal with my complaint, which they never did. I don't particularly want this to go to court but I don't want to accept the full amount of the debt either.

 

Can anyone help please as Shoosmiths are saying that they want an immediate response or they are instructed to issue proceedings.

 

Thanks

[Scania580man]

Has anyone got any advice? Does anyone know what Shoosmiths are up to? Is this their normal conduct - bullying?

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

Scania can you re upload the agreement its too small.Try using Photo bucket.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Scania580man]

ok

Edited September 14, 2011 by Scania580man

[AndyOrch]

Same size need to upload it using Photobucket or similar