Debenhams Store Card PPI ***Urgent Help Required*******

[citizenB]

Spreadsheet for the reclaiming of PPI

 

[ATTACH]30559[/ATTACH]

[Kate1973]

Hi Folks

 

Have had a few quiet days and am now back on my case. I have today received a general form of judgment or order :-

 

Upon hearing the defendant in person and hearing the representative for the claimant

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. by 24th October 2011 the claimant must file and serve a comprehensive skeleton argument to set out fully their case in law in light of the relevant statutory provisions, case law and government (or agency) guidance on payment protection claims.

 

2. The matter be referred to a full time District Judge for allocation thereafter

 

3. Costs in case

 

dated 3 October 2011.

 

I am going to draft a letter to HC later concerning the judges comments re trying to settle without having to go through court and inviting their proposals in this matter. What do people think as i've not heard from them and it has now been a week and a half since the allocation hearing??

[AndyOrch]

Need to start on that skeleton then Kate, make it priority rather than communicating with the Defendant.Bolster your claim they will approach you if they wish to avoid trial.

 

Andy

[Kate1973]

Hi Andy

 

When you say start my skeleton, i have already submitted mine at the allocation hearing (Copy on p6?), do i need to re do it again?? I thought what i had done was sufficient?? The Judge had ordered Santander to do theirs?? I think i'm confused as i am the defendant not the cliamant as i am counterclaiming??

[AndyOrch]

Apologies Kate so you have, its them the Claimant that needs to prepare and submit a response to yours.Make sure they they serve a copy on you by the stated date if not inform the court.

 

Andy

[Kate1973]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks for clarifying, was getting a bit worried i had missed something!!

 

Does anyone think it is still worth me writing as the Judge has suggested a settlement out of court was a suggestion?? In his words ' i hope not to see you again'??

[citizenB]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks for clarifying, was getting a bit worried i had missed something!!

 

Does anyone think it is still worth me writing as the Judge has suggested a settlement out of court was a suggestion?? In his words ' i hope not to see you again'??

 

I guess you could offer to drop your costs if they settle out of court.. as long as your costs arent mega

[Kate1973]

Hi Citizen

 

Thanks, may just do that!!!!, my costs are only that £100 defence fee i paid so far. I've not heard from them as yet so will get something out tonight/tomorrow.....

[caro]

I agree that you should write to them and ask for suggestions. I think I'd see what they come up with before offering to drop costs.......

[citizenB]

I agree that you should write to them and ask for suggestions. I think I'd see what they come up with before offering to drop costs.......

 

This is probably a more sensible idea

[millymollymoo]

In court with these as we speak. They rand befre acknowledgement of POC to ask for an extension (no chance!) and then rang again asking for my email address. These are a bunch of liers an have changed dates twice to suit them as to when the supposed 'famous telemarketing call' took place...Liers even though there was a crossed out sction on the credit agreement !!!! Good luck and will be following your success:)

[Mav1874]

Any news on this one?

[gemspan]

I'm disappointed to note that this thread ended so abruptly. I hope you win. I think you've been very brave....and handled this very professionally indeed! Well done!

 

Gemspan x

[Kate1973]

Right, i'm back after fighting a lot of other corners.

 

I had their detailed Skeleton Argument which still has lies in it! ( i can proove these)

 

I have a court date of 27 Feb (am now getting scared), i have to submit my documents on which i intend to rely at the hearing. Can i have a few pointers as i need to get these sent by the weekend. This is what i intend to submit :-

 

Copy of schedule of charges

copies of all statements evidencing the charges

Copy of my DPA request

Copy of my DPA response (which Howard Cohern are still swearing this was not received)

Copies of Viking debt collection letters (which HC have denied)

Copies of complaint corres with myself, Santander & FLA

 

How do i present this, and can anyone point me to the relevant legal cases concerning PPI misrepresentation and i think there is a case VMBNA but i've been looking for hours and cannot find it. I've also tried to view the basic court bundle but am getting an error??

 

Many Thanks

[Kate1973]

*Bump*

[citizenB]

Right, i'm back after fighting a lot of other corners.

 

I had their detailed Skeleton Argument which still has lies in it! ( i can proove these)

 

I have a court date of 27 Feb (am now getting scared), i have to submit my documents on which i intend to rely at the hearing. Can i have a few pointers as i need to get these sent by the weekend. This is what i intend to submit :-

 

Copy of schedule of charges

copies of all statements evidencing the charges

Copy of my DPA request

Copy of my DPA response (which Howard Cohern are still swearing this was not received)

Copies of Viking debt collection letters (which HC have denied)

Copies of complaint corres with myself, Santander & FLA

 

How do i present this, and can anyone point me to the relevant legal cases concerning PPI misrepresentation and i think there is a case VMBNA but i've been looking for hours and cannot find it. I've also tried to view the basic court bundle but am getting an error??

 

Many Thanks

 

Have you prepared yourself a Witness statement in which you refer to all your documents?

 

Have you also got the proof of postings - printouts from the RM website of delivery/signed notes

 

 

You will find a disclosure by list example in post # 3 of the following link

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?57385-Examples-of-Witness-Statements-Disclosure-by-List-Draft-Directions-Case-Summary

 

Form N265 is the court document for disclosure by list - I am not sure whether you need to complete that..

 

 

Below is the CPR regarding disclosure and inspection of documents.

 

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/contents/parts/part31.htm

[citizenB]

I will ask about the MBNA PPI case.. I dont recall seeing one myself.

[Kate1973]

Hi Citizen,

 

Thanks for replying. I haven't prepared a witness statement yet, that's a job for tomorrow as i've spent about 6 hours photocopying today!. I don't have proof or postings for the DPA request, however they quote my letter in their response. The DPA request was also incomplete as some stats were missing. I have copied all of the statements also to prove the PPI payments. I've also copied the original claim form served on me, my efence & counterclaim, and all other bots and bobs received although these are already filed with court. Do i need to include these in my bundle?? Can i present it to court in a folder for ease?? Am i best off using plastic wallets to separate things?? Sorry for the stupid questions but this is the first time i've had to do this and i'm very unsure of things!

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

You can use a lever arch file with page separators.... You can then use those stikky note things attached to the edge of pages in order to keep track of things.

 

Anything you are intending to rely on should be in your bundle.

 

Only some of what is quoted below will be of any relevance.. but certainly the attention to bundles might be of use to you. I have to admit that when I issued a claim against LTSB for non compliance.. I took extra copies and they WERE needed because the barrister from the opposition had absolutely nothing at all ??

 

Dont worry about the Proof of posting / receipt if you have communication from them that acknowledges that receipt and also provided some information

 

 

 

 

BRW – Court tips and tricks.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2171582.html

Quick Links for you:

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

The Consumer Credit Act 2006

 

On a very basic documentation level, one issue to be well prepared for is the question of your Defence Bundle.

 

The Empty Desk Trick

 

Some Courts and some Judges have an amazing ability to deny ever having received any documents before the Hearing.

 

So, expect the Judge to be sitting there with an evil smile and an empty desk, eyeing up your Court Bundle on the desk in front of you! So, make sure you take extra copies of all key documents, i.e. two extra Court Bundles.

 

It will be a PITA I know, but the ideal is to take three sets of everything, such as your Defence, plus anything else that you submitted to the Court and/or the opposition that was mentioned in your Defence and/or Disclosure by List.

 

Then, when the Judge and/or the enemy say, I do not have that, you will be ready to say, no problemo, open up your big bag and say, here's a second copy I prepared just in case the Court System had misplaced the copies I have already submitted.

 

IOW, whatever you want to have in front of you, make sure you have 2 extra copies of each item, so that you will not be left without the documents you need.

 

This appears to be a little trick that some Judges like to play, and will expect you to hand them your copy, either deliberately, or because they really are duffers who can't get themselves organised and/or have a useless Court system behind them who cannot get the documents you have already submitted to the Hearing.

 

In effect, this is a strategy to throw the Litigant in Person off balance. On the day it will look all tidy and genuine, but if you don't take copies, the net effect could be that you are sitting in front of an empty desk, having been deprived of your Court Bundle and needing to defend yourself just from memory.

 

Assuming that you can find the time and money to reel off 2 extra copies, then the next step is to make sure your own master copy is completely familiar to you. Practice what you may need to say, and try going to the document that you need in your Bundle to back that up. If it takes you 60 seconds when at home, it will feel like 60 minutes in Court...with a Judge tapping his/her finger on the bench and making huffing noises.

 

So, use Post-It Notes or Tabs, page numbers, anything to help you find what you need fast, so you can quote the part you need. Make sure the copies you make for the enemy have matching page numbers to your own Bundle, but there's no need to make their copies as easy to navigate as your own. Indeed, make theirs harder to navigate, perhaps by making the page numbers very small and feint (see below)...

 

IOW, if you think you will need to quote s127(3), have a Tab sticking out of your Bundle that says 127(3). So you can flick straight to it, and then tell Judge/Enemy that the document is on Bundle Page 156.

 

While they are flicking through to find Page 156, you'll have time to read what s127(3) says, so you are ready to read it out to the Court. Perhaps use a Yellow Highlighter to put a box around any key issues on the actual page so you won't need to waste time reading through a page of Text but can zoom straight to the Paragraph you need.

 

The point being, plan ahead to buy yourself as much time in Court as you can.

Make Notes and Plan your Responses

 

Next tip is when the enemy are droning on, make detailed notes of what they are saying, and put a big circle and number around anything they say that you do not agree with. Then, when they have finished speaking, if you did not understand anything, make them repeat it, and add extra notes.

 

Then, you should end up with some notes with big circles all numbered ready to trot out your counter arguments:

 

(1) The Agreement...I disagree that the Application Form they have produced represents an Agreement, because it is missing the Prescribed Terms, it's just an Application Form, the terms they say were on the back, are clearly not a copy of the back, and would not fit on the back Sir/Madam.

 

(2) Without the Prescribed Terms, the Court cannot enforce, see s61(1)(a), s65 and s127(3)...

 

...when Judge asks: "s127(3)?"

 

...you can whizz straight to that via your little tab, and say, that's on Page 156 Sir/Madam.

 

...when the Judge says: "but wasn't s127(3) repealed?"

 

...you can say no, if you look at the bottom of page 189 in relation to Schedule 3 of The Consumer Credit Act 2006, you will see that s127(3) still applies for Agreements made before 06/04/2007. The alleged Agreement is covered by The Consumer Credit Act 1974, so s127(3) remains in force.

 

If you see what I'm getting at?

 

The key is to have all the bumf you need, and have it so you can go straight to what you want.

 

What Did He Say...?

 

Don't let anything go over your head. If the enemy starts speaking in a language that only they and the Judge seem able to understand, then stop them, and say you do not know what is being said, could the enemy please slow down and explain things in layman's terms, please, as I am a Litigant in Person. Keep saying that if needed, to make sure Judge remembers that you are not a trained Barrister.

 

Keep making notes when not speaking yourself, and don't be shy about standing up for yourself and demanding a right to respond to any points that you disagree with. Your notes being to help you frame what you want to say when you get that chance.

 

If you get a decent and fair Judge, then the Hearing will be well conducted and all of the above will work in your favour.

 

If you get a biased and hostile Judge, then all of the above will help you to keep control and get your key points across, if only for the Tape and a future Appeal.

 

A Barrister will not be fazed by any tricks, and it's likely that a biased Judge won't try so many on when faced with someone trained and experienced with how the Court System works.

 

However, there's no reason why you can't hack this as a Litigant in Person, but things can get tough if you lose the Judge Lottery and get a duffer Judge or a biased Judge. That's when preparation and planning may save the day.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Kate1973]

Hi Citizen, thanks as always

 

I have been reviewing their documents which they are replying on and have a few questions :-

1. am i right in thinking that in court they will need to produce the original application/agreement form to be able to claim any debt owed??

2. I have looked at the copy of the account cover they have sent me and am please to say that the date on the copy is 08/05, and as the account was taken out in 1998 can i add to my witness stat that what they have sent is not a copy of what was issued as it was produced some 7 years later!??

3.Part of my case also will be around the fact that they have said they never rec'd my SAR, however they replied to my request (again have copied this for my bundle), and i was going to build into my WS that they are in breach as the request is incomplete? The stats they are replying on start from 05 and i never rec'd proper stats for this, just a computer print out so look to have been re-produced as these were not sent in response to my SAR

4. I will also be building in the fact that i was issued with DCA demands whilst persuing my complaint which is in breach of OFT guidelines as the account was in dispute at the time (again i have copied these as they have denied they were sent)

 

I have received their WS and the first 6 stats are about the debt and that i made use of the credit, this is something which i have never denied so am not worried about this.

 

Any advice gratefully rec'd as i have to have all this done by the weekend

[citizenB]

Hi Citizen, thanks as always

 

I have been reviewing their documents which they are replying on and have a few questions :-

1. am i right in thinking that in court they will need to produce the original application/agreement form to be able to claim any debt owed??

That is my understanding.. that they can provide a reconstituted copy for s78 purposes (CCA request) but that it has to be taken from reliable sources within their data base) But they must have the original for the court to see.

 

2. I have looked at the copy of the account cover they have sent me and am please to say that the date on the copy is 08/05, and as the account was taken out in 1998 can i add to my witness stat that what they have sent is not a copy of what was issued as it was produced some 7 years later!?? Oops.. Oh my yes, that should be highlighted within your WS I would say.

 

 

3.Part of my case also will be around the fact that they have said they never rec'd my SAR, however they replied to my request (again have copied this for my bundle), and i was going to build into my WS that they are in breach as the request is incomplete? The stats they are replying on start from 05 and i never rec'd proper stats for this, just a computer print out so look to have been re-produced as these were not sent in response to my SAR - Not sure about this - If they are in breach of your SAR request, then I would say yes, you can mention it. But you might not be able to build your case on it. What it could highlight is their refusal/inability to produce reliable information as required by statute.

 

4. I will also be building in the fact that i was issued with DCA demands whilst persuing my complaint which is in breach of OFT guidelines as the account was in dispute at the time (again i have copied these as they have denied they were sent) Yep, whilst there was a genuine and unresolved dispute, they should have put their threat machine on pause until the dispute was resolved.

 

I have received their WS and the first 6 stats are about the debt and that i made use of the credit, this is something which i have never denied so am not worried about this. And so you shouldnt be, just continue to say that you have never denied entering into an agreement and that you are more than happy to accept liability for what is genuinely owed.. however, you are concerned that the protections provided under the CCA have been denied you and what ever reasons you are not convinced that the balance they are claiming is correct.. or whatever.

 

Any advice gratefully rec'd as i have to have all this done by the weekend

 

I will send an S.O.S. to andyorch for you, he will be able to advise further

[Kate1973]

Thanks, you're a Star:-)

[Kate1973]

Thanks, you're a Star:-)

*bump*, and what cases can i quote please??

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

*bump*, and what cases can i quote please??

 

Thanks

 

In respect of what?

 

I am just going to have a read back over your thread. BRB

[citizenB]

Ok, I am up to speed now.. I forgot that your PPI issue is in counterclaim so you need also to fight off their claim as well.

 

IMHO, you need to produce another WS which rebuts any of their claims where possible.

 

Can you let us know if this was originally a STORE CARD which was then ported to a credit card ?

 

The Default Notice, can we have sight of that please.. remember to remove any personal information and barcodes. If you use the instructions below you should be able to upload it as one complete page.

 

 

 

Dx100 – Instructions on uploading pdfs

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button