Debenhams Store Card PPI ***Urgent Help Required*******

[Kate1973]

Hi, right back from work

 

The directions state that " each party must deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party it intends to reply at the hearing no later than fourteen days before the hearing". - can i argue that i did "deliver" within that deadline as that was the 14th day i posted it?. Sent Monday 13th Feb g'teed delivery, hearing date 27th Feb??

 

The papers for the court were also delivered 13th Feb.

 

HC Supp WS covering letter states " please find enclosed by way of service upon you, the claimants supp ws. We can confirm the same has been filed with court". Their letter is dated 18th Feb, envelope franked 20 feb and arrived 21 feb.

 

Help much appreciated, and also what do i do about the bits of my ws they have ignored such as DPA breach, missing statements so how can they accurately calculate what they claim i owe? The issue is sending DCA letters when the account was clearly in dispute?

 

Thanks

[Kate1973]

*bump*

[Kate1973]

Hi

 

Can one of the site team help with my last post please?? Many thanks

[citizenB]

Sorry, Kate, I cant quite make out what exactly it is you are asking ??

[Kate1973]

Hi Citizen

 

I need to know whether i can use my interpretation of the hearing order in terms of the directions state that " each party must deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party it intends to reply at the hearing no later than fourteen days before the hearing". - can i argue that i did "deliver" within that deadline as that was the 14th day i posted it?. Sent Monday 13th Feb g'teed delivery, hearing date 27th Feb??, HC have put in the sup WS that it should be struck out due to my paper work being 1 day late

 

Also were they late with their Supp WS as this only arrived Tuesday? I have tomorrow off so will do some more work.

 

I would be grateful if someone could let me know what parts of their Supp WS i need to pay particular attention to?? They have made comments regarding the cases i have mentioned and not a specific referral to pariculars of the cases??

 

This is all stressing me out loads and i'm really not confident for Monday at all?

 

Thanks

[gezwee]

Kate

 

I'm pretty sure the dj will allow your w/s, can't see how late service was prejudicial to the other party. It appears to have had the opposite effect and allowed them to raise additional arguments. They're not exactly sure of the position either........ if they were they wouldn't have served supp in response.

 

You can apply for relief from sanction [cpr 3.9], even if a little late in the day. It may offer you a little added protection if things don't look like they're going your way at the hearing.

 

As far as points within their w/s.......... take a deep breath....... and break down each argument to the position you understand it to be, look for the logical counter argument/rebuttal [caselaw, S.I etc].

 

Once you're happy that you've understood their position, and have a sound response to each, build it into your skel for the hearing so you have a clear point of reference for the day.

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Kate

 

I'm pretty sure the dj will allow your w/s, can't see how late service was prejudicial to the other party. It appears to have had the opposite effect and allowed them to raise additional arguments. They're not exactly sure of the position either........ if they were they wouldn't have served supp in response.

 

You can apply for relief from sanction [cpr 3.9], even if a little late in the day. It may offer you a little added protection if things don't look like they're going your way at the hearing.

 

As far as points within their w/s.......... take a deep breath....... and break down each argument to the position you understand it to be, look for the logical counter argument/rebuttal [caselaw, S.I etc].

 

Once you're happy that you've understood their position, and have a sound response to each, build it into your skel for the hearing so you have a clear point of reference for the day.

 

Gez

 

Hi Gez, can you explain the relief from sanction part, not heard of that before? I have 3 days now to get ready, and i so want to win, I will prep what i can tomorrow and post it for checking. Sometimes i feel so out of my depth so it's good to have a bit of morale support.

[gezwee]

Hi Kate

 

Draft a letter to the court manager in the morning [cc the claimant sols], go for something along the lines of;

 

 

Dear sir

 

Case number .........../ ................ v...............

 

Please would you file and place before the district judge presiding the above case.

 

As a litigant in person it is admitted that confusion resultant from order of [date] led to a delay in exchange of witness statement by some 24 hours; the date of delivery being confused with date of postal service.

 

I apologise profusely to the court and to claimant party to case and would request that relief from sanctions are applied pursuant to CPR3.9 & 3.10

 

The defendant assures the court that the delay was without intent, and further avers that it has complied with all previous orders within a timely manner.

 

I believe that the delay has caused the claimant no prejudice, having allowed it to further expand upon it's case, and narrow the issues within its subsequent supplemental witness statement.

 

Having receipted the claimants rebuttal witness statement some 7 days prior to hearing date, it is further avered that the trial date [as allocated] is not compromised by want of the shortest of periods of service delay.

 

I would be grateful to the courts indulgence in applying its case management powers of discretion in this matter, allowing the case to continue with all served witness statements.

 

Regards

 

Don't forget to verify with a statement of truth

Edited February 24, 2012 by gezwee

[gezwee]

Oh and 3.9/3.10 are here

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/contents/parts/part03.htm#IDAFZ1HC

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Hi Gez

 

Thanks for this, all done and i'm off to court not to deliver it. Will then be able to start work on my skel for the hearing. When i do this do i also bring up the points they have ignored in my WS??

 

Thanks

[gezwee]

Hi Kate

 

Include everything you believe is core to your case. They've probably avoided drawing argument to certain points within your w/s as it could be damaging to their case.

 

Without reading back through all your thread can you remind me which points they declined to respond to or draw into argument?

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Hi Gez (or any other lovely helpers!)

 

Here goes on the points they haven't responded on

 

1. DPA denial

2. Imcomplete DPA request

3. no comment on how they can come up with their sum based on DPA breach (i've gone down the lines of imability to produce accurate records although they claim to have account cover brochre and application form pre dating their statements by some 5 years)

4. how can any alleged default notices be accurate based on 4 above

5. I have not received a DFN and have stated this but no comment made as to this

6.issuing of DCA letters whilst account was defnaely in dispute, and breach of OFT guidelines on procedure

 

I've been looking at their supp WS, and i'm uncovering quite a few mistakes such as wrong dated for Order being quoted! (not what you'd expect from a firm of legal experts), also inconsistencies so i'll carry on with this tomorrow (I feel like Poirot!!!!)

 

I so much appreciate the help i am getting despite comments in the Supp WS as to how these sites are only here to try and help people avoid paying their debts!!

 

I'll be working on this again tomorrow and will post up my comments on their WS & Supp WS for someone to check i'm on the right lines with my side of things??

 

I'm now starting to feel a little happier about his again!!,

 

Many thanks

[gezwee]

Hi Kate

 

Glad to see you've cheered up a bit

 

Every point they don't want you to play, argue it........ it's fairly common for the sols to try to direct the judge, don't let them get away with it. If they've declined to fully comply with DPA and further decline to answer any questions regarding accuracy of balance of account make sure the dj is aware of why this is prejudicial to a fair hearing.

 

If there's 5 years of account data missing [and assuming you always operated the account in a negative balance], where did they conjure the starting balance from?

 

It may be worthwhile calculating all debits/credits to account for the period they have provided data..... if the nett balance is in your favour, or writes off the balance they plead, its a counter position to add to your skel..... if it doesn't work in your favour, do as they do, and ignore it

 

Looks like you have plenty of argument to compile yet

 

Gez

[citizenB]

They will always try to play that old whinge about sites such as CAG helping people avoid repaying their debts. .

 

You have, presumably never denied entering into an agreement or that you are refusing to repay monies you genuinely owe.

 

The Defence has indeed been produced with the benefit of assistance available via a consumer advice website, though I would contend that fact would only be clear to someone such as yourself who makes it their business to patrol such websites. Further, I take exception to your remarks that it is inappropriate of me to avail myself of the assistance afforded by a consumer advice website.

 

 

At the end of the day, if these companies treated their customers with respect and hadnt tried ripping them off with mis sold products then there would be no need for sites such as CAG.. would there ?

 

What next.. will they try to have any legal reference books removed from libraries ??

[Kate1973]

Thanks Citizen & Gez, exactly, i haven't had the 7 years odd training to become a legal expert! As they are such professional & experts i find it quite amusing that they have managed to quote the DJ notice of order as 26 Oct, when in fact it is 11 Nov!

 

Part of my skeleton and WS does state that i have never denied entering into an agreement and i am not refusing to repay what is genuinely owed so that looks to be in my favour?

 

I have done as Gez suggested and checked the debits & credits from the statements they have produced and the net balance is a debit of £794.31. Looking on the negative side should i loose can i argue what is genuinely owed based on their lack of statements and reduce it to this figure?? I just want to ensure i am prepared for the worst!.

 

I was alo thinking of compiling some data around the recently reported losses for the major banks due to the compensation being paid out on mis sold PPI, and the FSA reported costs so far. Is this a worthwhile excercise?? (another job for tomorrow!!)

[gezwee]

I have done as Gez suggested and checked the debits & credits from the statements they have produced and the net balance is a debit of £794.31. Looking on the negative side should i loose can i argue what is genuinely owed based on their lack of statements and reduce it to this figure?? I just want to ensure i am prepared for the worst!.

 

Hi Kate

 

Not sure if it was clear from my previous post, this was for a calculation based on £00.00 at start date of account history as presented. Any interest encumbered would only be effective on the debit sums from that date. Did you put everything into a spready and run the calcs on the applicable int rates?

 

If it the account operates at 28 days free of interest application from transaction date then build the int free period in as well

 

I'd echo everything that Cb said, if we as consumers were treated fairly there'd never be a need for litigation

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Hi Gez

 

Numbers isn't my strongest point to, i have no idea how to do a spreadsheet for this???

[gezwee]

Hi Kate

 

Hmmmm...... not an easy one to explain the calcs on here, pretty sure there's a spreadsheet template in the library section to suit but if you think you might struggle give me a shout. Alternatively, can you type up a list of all transactions inc dates [debit & credit] and applicable interest rates for the period. If you can get something on here later today or tomorrow I'll do a spready for you and attach it back on here.

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Hi Gez

 

I can't say how thankful i am, i'll get you the details on later .

[Kate1973]

Hi

 

i am going to argue that they cannot possibly be able to come up with an accurate balance, Thoughts anyone??

Edited February 25, 2012 by Kate1973
Some data removed for personal reasons

[gezwee]

Duplicates are OK [assuming accurate], the missing periods of statement are a bit of a concern though...... what on earth are they basing their claim on?

 

They'll need to rely on hearsay evidence to act as witness to missing data...... which of course you'll want to question - the first question of which would be whether they could confirm under oath that the balance wasn't fully discharged during any of the missing data periods.

 

You really need to bring this to the dj's attention as soon as you can get a word in.

 

If it wasn't so late in the day I think I'd be inviting them to discontinue. DO NOT let them hand you any missing docs at the hearing until you're all seated with the dj. If they try it on in the waiting room tell them you're only prepared to discuss your costs and their discontinuance. If they have additional data to disclose they can wait and ask the permission of the dj. If you're not happy with it, and think they're trying to ambush you, ask the dj to deny them relief and/or seek an adjournment.

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Hi Gez

 

I will definately not be speaking to anyone before the hearing. Part of me thinks it is now better i have found it later on as they submitted this in August so have had plenty of time to correct it!!! Is it still worth me outting them on a sheet for you??

[gezwee]

Hi Kate

 

Not really going to be much use with the data you have, I believe it's in your interest to bring it to the dj's attention as early in proceedings as possible.

 

They effectively have no basis to their claim and it brings the value of your counter into question without relief to data.

 

What is the total value [as pleaded] to theirs and your counter?

 

Gez

[Kate1973]

Hi Gez

 

They are claiming £1288.22, mine is for £5017.03 including Contractual Int & £100 court fees (plus any oher costs the judge wants to award), on my schedule i have put est costs as their DPA request was incomplete.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Kate1973

[Kate1973]

Am removing a couple of previous bits as am concerned about spies watching!