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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
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ncp PCN - Lower Audley Street, Blackburn- wrong time on PCN


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hi. ..

 

i received a penalty notice from a private car park (retail stores) from NCP stating 'not parked within the bay area', which i was within, and also the 'first seen' time is false as i was not there at that time.

 

Shall i pay this within the 14 days? I have already sent an appeal letter stating what i said above.

 

I've also contacted Neill the parking campaigner in Newcastle who adviced these are all illegal.

 

Anyone help?

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Were you driving the car ? :-) these charges by virtue of the fact that they are a private contract only apply to the driver of the vehicle (otherwise how could you agree to the T&C ). one defense could be that you did not drive the car on that day, and for the life of you, you can't remember who was driving.

 

this would only work if you havent already admitted to being there.

 

Have a LONG read of all the threads here, i'm sure that you'll find the answer.

 

ps I dont condone cheating or lying of any description :-)

 

Try also this forum PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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by the way, there is a story on this same issue about the same car park i received my notice at. I have also contacted this newspaper.

 

Dont Cross The Line (from This Is Lancashire)

 

Oh dear! Assuming the paper got it right it appears that NCP & it's jobsworths think they can issue "fines"

 

They should be asked under what statute/regulation they, as no more than a private company, are allowed to issue "fines" or for that matter "penalties"

 

Even the local councils are begining to cotton on to the fact that parking enforcement has been decriminalised so even they can't "fine" anyone

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Shall i pay this within the 14 days?

 

No, do not pay anything.

Is this definitely a private car park? NCP have contracts with several local authorities to run public car parks. Check the penalty notice for confirmation.

If it is a private car park, write to NCP and ask them to confirm under what legal authority they are suggesting they have an entitlement to claim anything from you.

 

If its a local authority car park being managed by NCP on the LA's behalf then you need to do the usual appeal letter and take it from there.

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hi,

 

thanks all for replying.

 

this is more than likely a private car park as most retail store parking is.

 

i have spoken to both Matalan and Staples managers and even though they have CCTV cameras, they do not cover the car park, only their own entrance and exit.

 

however, i was at Focus at 13.00 (the time stated as 'first seen' and they DO have CCTV footage but will only release it to the police and no-one else, not even by a court order.

 

i have appealed stating the notice as null and void because of the incorrect time, but its my word against the attendants.

 

i have no intention of paying and am happy to go to court if they wish.

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No really relevant but tell Focus that whilst they can refuse to release the CCTV footage to anyone even the police they cannot refuse under a court order & if they did they would risk arrest & imprisonment for contempt of court.

 

Just thought I'd mention it as these jobsworths get right up my jacksy

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thanks,

 

i thought the same, that they have to comply with a court order, but i was only stating what the manager told me.

 

anyway, even Neill Herron says there is no case for NCP here, so i'm just waiting for a reply to my appeal letter, then take the next step if they refuse.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to ncp PCN - Lower Audley Street, Blackburn- wrong time on PCN
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